Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hedwig]

Yeah...thought about that (the 3 years thing). I have a couple of real problems:
-The academy is going to have some kind of age limit for admission -if it's not 18, then it surely can't be younger than 17?
-She has to go through Flight school and assignment with a squad to be ready for Desert Storm.
-She has to complete her MS and PhD.
-She's employed on the Stargate program in 1994
-All of this has to happen before the events of COTG. c. 1997.
-Her promotion to Major (late 1999) has to work with the rest of her promotions (you leave AFA as 2nd Lt.).

It works so much easier if it's 1965 instead of 1968. Can I claim a typo that Sam noticed and got corrected? Yes, I know I'm probably over thinking this and its not rocket science (no offense to Sam). I was oddly satisfied when I looked up AT's DOB after I did all this work and it was 1965.

hedwig -the props people line was priceless I think that may be correct.

Just to confuse things more: We also have to consider the time difference between the movie (in 1994) and the beginning of the series, which was 1997. There's a 3-4 year gap there that isn't taken into account between the movie and the series starting.

Sam is born in 1968
She's 20 in 1988
She's 26 in 1994

But only one year older when the series starts in 1997-98. The movie would have to have actually taken place one year before the series starts in order for the ages to work out.

I'm very tired. I don't know what I'm saying or if any of it makes any sense. So I'm going to bed now and will be back sometime tomorrow after a doctor appointment.

So, did I do a good job of confusing the whole issue, or should I slink off to my bedroom and turn off the lights and pretend I'm asleep?

p.s. - There are one or two stories I'm aware of that could possibly be the one being looked for, but I'd need more details to decide if any of them are appropriate.

(***waves nighty-night to everybody***)

[SaraBahama]

Ok...time to totter off to bed. This is my goodnight to the shipper thread:




Hope you like!
*words by Lady Antebellum*

[Kate1013]

There are some people around here who think the props person on SG1 didn't get the memos about Sam's and Jack's actual ages when he/she put together their military IDs and didn't run them by whoever was in charge of continuity.

Yes, I think this can explain the whole 'John vs Jonathan' O'Neill debate. The fact that the creators have always said Jack's full name is Jonathan and yet one of the eps show his ID with the name John on it. That always bugs me

[SaraBahama]

Where do I go to find the Ship Day thread??

[hlndncr]

Where do I go to find the Ship Day thread??

A new thread just for Ship Day will be started at midnight EST on the day and a link will be posted here.

Here's a link for Ship Day 2010.

[gater62]

I was wondering that myself. Perhaps Pol or someone else who was in/is in the US military can weigh in.

I was in the US military--and month is listed before day (in all dated documents).

[Petra]

*sneaks back in. now that I've volunteered to offer some recs for the Ship Day I actually need to keep tabs on this thread*

There are some people around here who think the props person on SG1 didn't get the memos about Sam's and Jack's actual ages when he/she put together their military IDs and didn't run them by whoever was in charge of continuity.

As hedwig knows, I'm one of those people. As I wrote once (or more than once ), I just don't believe in prop canon, period. It's too unreliable and not made by the writers themselves. If prop canon was to be believed, Jack was demoted and promoted several times during *one* episode, and his service record changes every year (everytime he wears dress blues his "salad" is different). So for me personally, if something wasn't *said* on the show it's not canon. Hence, IMO, Jack was born in 1957, Daniel in 1964/5, Teal'c in 1898 and we don't know Sam's actual birth date, just that she was born in May.

Regarding the whole issue of Sam's age, while I don't entirely agree with the conclusions, you may find this essay very useful. In any case it's pretty well documented and logical. I've also read a few more discussions on the subject, and if I manage to track them down I'll post the links too.

Personally, I've always viewed Sam and Daniel as being the same age, maybe even Sam being a year or so older, because she has this "older sister" vibe at times. I don't understand this obsession with the fact that Sam *has to* be younger than the guys. Why? Is her being older than them makes her somehow less capable or accomplished? Geez, as a scientist she's Daniel's equal and she's also an officer - making her older doesn't diminish her genius.

Add to that there have been other script inconsistencies (one ep Jack claims to be 40...which there's no way...it's an obvious error).

And why is that? Jack said he was 40 in season 1 (ep "Brief Candle"), why would he lie (or TPTB make a mistake?)? Just like with Sam's age and attempts to make her younger, I also don't understand why folks insist on making Jack older. Up untill Fragile Balance his canon age was never in question and the fact that age suddenly caught up with RDA is no reason to retcon *Jack's* backstory. If anything it gives it more credence, because I'd think all this stress and responsabilities would take its toll on his health/looks.

Anyway, it's just my POV.

*sneaks back out, to occasional lurkdom*

[hlndncr]

I think what it comes down is that we all have to decide for ourselves how we are going to approach and use the somewhat vague and often contradictory facts we have about the characters on the show. With several hundred hours produced my hundreds of cast and crew, you just have to accept that there will be inconsistancies. There are certainly things that you just can't make work and others that leave several logical options available.

Personally, I mostly keep personal information vague unless it is absolutely necessary to what I'm writing (and it most often isn't). But I've come to my own conclusions that satisfy me and write with those assumptions in mind regardless of what others have concluded. And when I'm reading someone else's work, as long as there is some logic to their inferences and an internal consistancy with what they've chosen to adopt, I have no complaints.

[hedwig]

*sneaks back in. now that I've volunteered to offer some recs for the Ship Day I actually need to keep tabs on this thread*

Spoiler:

As hedwig knows, I'm one of those people. As I wrote once (or more than once ), I just don't believe in prop canon, period. It's too unreliable and not made by the writers themselves. If prop canon was to be believed, Jack was demoted and promoted several times during *one* episode, and his service record changes every year (everytime he wears dress blues his "salad" is different). So for me personally, if something wasn't *said* on the show it's not canon. Hence, IMO, Jack was born in 1957, Daniel in 1964/5, Teal'c in 1898 and we don't know Sam's actual birth date, just that she was born in May.

Regarding the whole issue of Sam's age, while I don't entirely agree with the conclusions, you may find this essay very useful. In any case it's pretty well documented and logical. I've also read a few more discussions on the subject, and if I manage to track them down I'll post the links too.

Personally, I've always viewed Sam and Daniel as being the same age, maybe even Sam being a year or so older, because she has this "older sister" vibe at times. I don't understand this obsession with the fact that Sam *has to* be younger than the guys. Why? Is her being older than them makes her somehow less capable or accomplished? Geez, as a scientist she's Daniel's equal and she's also an officer - making her older doesn't diminish her genius.



And why is that? Jack said he was 40 in season 1 (ep "Brief Candle"), why would he lie (or TPTB make a mistake?)? Just like with Sam's age and attempts to make her younger, I also don't understand why folks insist on making Jack older. Up untill Fragile Balance his canon age was never in question and the fact that age suddenly caught up with RDA is no reason to retcon *Jack's* backstory. If anything it gives it more credence, because I'd think all this stress and responsabilities would take its toll on his health/looks.

Anyway, it's just my POV.

*sneaks back out, to occasional lurkdom*

My only comment about whatever Daniel's age might be is the fact that in the episode "1969", he states to the others when they were back in 1969 that he was 4-1/2 years old at that time, which would mean he was born in around 1964-65.

From the "1969" transcript:

DANIEL: Actually, I was about four and a half years old in '69.

[Petra]

My only comment about whatever Daniel's age might be is the fact that in the episode "1969", he states to the others when they were back in 1969 that he was 4-1/2 years old at that time, which would mean he was born in around 1964-65.

Yep, which is exactly what I wrote:

Hence, IMO, Jack was born in 1957, Daniel in 1964/5, Teal'c in 1898 and we don't know Sam's actual birth date, just that she was born in May.

[Rogue]

Unbelievable that this thread is still truck'n. It has been such long time since I posted here, I was not quite sure if I remembered how.

[trinity3]

Unbelievable that this thread is still truck'n. It has been such long time since I posted here, I was not quite sure if I remembered how.

Yup. We're still truck'n, still gating and still shipping.

Nice to meet you.

[trinity3]

Thanks everybody! Conn8d, hedwig, Lucy! The Netflix version has that picture cut off. Ok...so here is the problem...I've been running Sam's timeline for my fic and my own curiosity...and in order to accomplish everything she's supposed to (canon) have done prior to COTG...1965 works better than 1968.

Add to that there have been other script inconsistencies (one ep Jack claims to be 40...which there's no way...it's an obvious error).

I was hoping that the date really wasn't on there...now I have to decide whether to go with '68 or reject this reality and substitue my own *muttering incoherently to self -something about days of research and typing wasted...* Going for my Prozac...be back soon...



*back with Prozac...feeling little better* exactly! thought I was back home for a minute there

I agree it's best to go with canon. However, in shippy terms, whether she's 3 years younger or older, it does not matter to one Jack O'Neill.

[Conn8d]

I agree it's best to go with canon. However, in shippy terms, whether she's 3 years younger or older, it does not matter to one Jack O'Neill.

Fact, no matter how confusing figuring out all this timeline business is, in shipland I'm sure Jack doesn't care.

A lot of times though in various shows I have followed, the writers and canon are pretty vague about how old characters really are. Especially if a show seems to last quite a while, the background of charaters gets extended in ways writers didn't imagine when they first concieved of the charaters originally, so even if ages were already planned out, they don't work as well with the added backstory.

For us I guess it mostly just means we have a bit of leway when reconciling timelines or writing fic, which is good, even if it is a little confusing.

[trinity3]

Fact, no matter how confusing figuring out all this timeline business is, in shipland I'm sure Jack doesn't care.

A lot of times though in various shows I have followed, the writers and canon are pretty vague about how old characters really are. Especially if a show seems to last quite a while, the background of charaters gets extended in ways writers didn't imagine when they first concieved of the charaters originally, so even if ages were already planned out, they don't work as well with the added backstory.

For us I guess it mostly just means we have a bit of leway when reconciling timelines or writing fic, which is good, even if it is a little confusing.

Indeed.