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**SaraBahama** · 20 June 2011, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Petra View Post

If prop canon was to be believed, Jack was demoted and promoted several times during *one* episode, and his service record changes every year (everytime he wears dress blues his "salad" is different). Regarding the whole issue of Sam's age, while I don't entirely agree with the conclusions, you may find this essay very useful. Personally, I've always viewed Sam and Daniel as being the same age, maybe even Sam being a year or so older, because she has this "older sister" vibe at times. I don't understand this obsession with the fact that Sam *has to* be younger than the guys. Why? Is her being older than them makes her somehow less capable or accomplished? Geez, as a scientist she's Daniel's equal and she's also an officer - making her older doesn't diminish her genius.

I also don't understand why folks insist on making Jack older. Up untill Fragile Balance his canon age was never in question and the fact that age suddenly caught up with RDA is no reason to retcon *Jack's* backstory. If anything it gives it more credence, because I'd think all this stress and responsabilities would take its toll on his health/looks

Thanks for posting...I did find the document interesting. I took issue with a couple of points (particularly Sam's Gulf War record...the statment in the document was that there were not any female figher pilots until 1993, but the research I did said there were, but they were not specifically documented -Rossi was a documented helo pilot killed in the Gulf War), but don't get me wrong...I found it very useful...thank you again.

Originally posted by hlndncr View Post

I think what it comes down is that we all have to decide for ourselves how we are going to approach and use the somewhat vague and often contradictory facts we have about the characters on the show. With several hundred hours produced my hundreds of cast and crew, you just have to accept that there will be inconsistancies. There are certainly things that you just can't make work and others that leave several logical options available.
Personally, I mostly keep personal information vague unless it is absolutely necessary to what I'm writing (and it most often isn't). But I've come to my own conclusions that satisfy me and write with those assumptions in mind regardless of what others have concluded. And when I'm reading someone else's work, as long as there is some logic to their inferences and an internal consistancy with what they've chosen to adopt, I have no complaints.

All good points, thanks hlndncr! I asked the question to get a) any info the thread had on the issue and b) a feeling for how the members dealt with inconsistencies when writing fic. You guys have really helped out on both! The research I did on Sam I found fun and gratifing, and added to my appreciation and affection for our soldier girl, so I benefited from it either way.

Originally posted by trinity3 View Post

I agree it's best to go with canon. However, in shippy terms, whether she's 3 years younger or older, it does not matter to one Jack O'Neill.

*shippy sigh* no...it sure doesn't matter to him...

Originally posted by Conn8d View Post

Fact, no matter how confusing figuring out all this timeline business is, in shipland I'm sure Jack doesn't care. A lot of times though in various shows I have followed, the writers and canon are pretty vague about how old characters really are. Especially if a show seems to last quite a while, the background of charaters gets extended in ways writers didn't imagine when they first concieved of the charaters originally, so even if ages were already planned out, they don't work as well with the added backstory. For us I guess it mostly just means we have a bit of leway when reconciling timelines or writing fic, which is good, even if it is a little confusing.

i try to keep that in mind

Sam's details are so close to being able to be mapped out, though! I'll finish what I have and sit back and enjoy it myself. The pure pleasure of writing it down has been wonderful.

**Pol** · 20 June 2011, 08:11 PM

Okay, jumping in, although late.

I ran away from home for the weekend to go up my Dad's (ex-stepdad) for Father's day...and to get away.

Okay, Amy already answered, but on my tags my birthday reads 02/26/1968 (which means Feb 26, 1968).

So, regarding Sam: To be eligible to enter the Academy (and it is "Academy" and not "academy," just as it is Air Force and not airforce or air force) you must be:

Academy entrance requirements:

A citizen of the United States. Your citizenship must be finalized prior to entering the Academy. You must submit proof of citizenship if you were foreign born or naturalized. Authorized international students are exempt from this requirement.
At least 17, but less than 23 years of age by July 1 of the year you would enter. The age requirement is public law and cannot be waived.
Unmarried with no dependents.
Of good moral character.
Meet high leadership, academic, physical and medical standards.

Source

Now, we know Sam has a Ph.D. in Astrophysics, yes? For that she'd need a Master's in...something. A Masters in Astrophysics (I picked Oxford) takes 2-3 years, and a PhD another 3-5 depending upon the brain of the candidates and the program requirements.

So, if Sam entered the Academy at 17 (with a December birthdate), she graduated at 21. Then did her Graduate (MS) in, let's say 2 years (now she's 23). Then, 'cause she's a genius, she did her Ph.D. in a record 3 years (now she's 26).

She then had to complete her commissioning requirements (the USAF will allow you to continue graduate studies beyond the Academy and postpone your service commitment until completion of your degree (you have 7 years after starting the PhD program)).

Per the Stargate Wiki, she served in the Gulf War and was part of the Project Giza program (which later became the Stargate Program) just before Dr. Daniel Jackson solved the riddle of the Stargate. She said in CotG that she "logged over a hundred hours in enemy airspace during the Gulf War" too, but that would have been in a "support role" because women cannot serve in a combat designator (job title). Edited to add: She didn't have to be (and most likely was NOT) a fighter pilot. She could have flown support missions as helo, overall air support, AWACS, etc... Fighters are not the only aircraft in the military.

So, if she was 26 with her Ph.D. and logged over 100 hours, and you take 100 and divide by 4 (hours average mission time), you get 25 days. Add to that breaks/days/mandatory rest time between sorties (missions), she could have served a rotation for at minimum two months and maximum...what, a year? before being recalled to the Pentagon to work on Project Giza. Or she did PG, then went to Iraq (because Jack O'Neil (one L) went to Abydos 'cause West was a jackass), then she'd be 27, maybe 28 at the start of SG-1, the series.

Or...I've just put waaaay too much thought into this. LOL.

And, can I just add one thing? Well, two actually. I did the research and for Jack to have served in Vietnam, he'd have done it as a young man in the military. I wrote a fic about that, somewhere.

The other thing is a HUGE. PET. PEEVE. in fanfic. I just read it again yesterday. Spoilered for non J/S-ishness

Spoiler:

If you write fanfic, please do not "disband" SG-1, that is so incredibly unrealistic.

Okay. I'm done now. Oh, and does anyone know why when you click the "spoiler" button you get this: "[SPOILERSOLD]"

**Gatetrixer** · 20 June 2011, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Lucycat View Post

I tend to lean toward Amanda's birthyear, which is 1965, for Sam. I have no idea why they would make Sam three years younger then AT and Jack two years younger than RDA. Just go with their real age, for cryin' out loud!

Happy Father's Day to all shippy father out there! Happy Father's day to RDA and Jack, who (I believe) is celebrating with Sam and Cassie and a child of their own.
Also, happy anniversary to me... I've been on GW for one year. It's been wonderful to find a group of people who share my obsession! If anyone would like to create a new S/J themed sig for my anniversary, that would be awesome.

While, the real ages of AT and RDA would pretty much fit the characters of
Sam and Jack, actors are seldom supposed to be the exact same ages as their characters, more often than not playing younger. In the studio days, the studios(and actors themselves) were often quite vague about the actors' ages, one reason being that a wider variety of roles were then available.

**trupi** · 20 June 2011, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Rogue View Post

Unbelievable that this thread is still truck'n. It has been such long time since I posted here, I was not quite sure if I remembered how.

OMG! How the Heck are you?

**hlndncr** · 20 June 2011, 09:05 PM

SaraB, I tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. You need to clean it out so I can respond to ya.

**SamJackShipper93** · 20 June 2011, 09:16 PM

Sanctuary Semi-OT/Spoilers:

Spoiler:

**ddc** · 21 June 2011, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Pol View Post

Now, we know Sam has a Ph.D. in Astrophysics, yes? For that she'd need a Master's in...something. A Masters in Astrophysics (I picked Oxford) takes 2-3 years, and a PhD another 3-5 depending upon the brain of the candidates and the program requirements.

While some people go for a Masters then a PhD it isn't necessary. Several friends of mine went righ into PhD programs. It is possible to complete the course work for a PhD in 3 years, though actually writing and defending the thesis can take several more years.

**Lt.Colonel John Sheppard** · 21 June 2011, 03:05 PM

i kinda wish they did end SG-1 after Season 8 or at least started a whole new SG-1 type series with Ben Browder (Cameron Mitchell) i mean the original team were all moving on to different positions.

Jack was being assigned to Homeworld Command.
Sam was heading to Area 51 to up R &D
Daniel was heading to Atlantis.
Teal'c was going back to the Jaffa.

it would've been nice to have seen a New Colonel lead a whole new SG-1 team. the SG-1 team we came to know and love had closure almost.

**Kate1013** · 21 June 2011, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post

i kinda wish they did end SG-1 after Season 8 or at least started a whole new SG-1 type series with Ben Browder (Cameron Mitchell) i mean the original team were all moving on to different positions.

Jack was being assigned to Homeworld Command.
Sam was heading to Area 51 to up R &D
Daniel was heading to Atlantis.
Teal'c was going back to the Jaffa.

it would've been nice to have seen a New Colonel lead a whole new SG-1 team. the SG-1 team we came to know and love had closure almost.

Not to be pedantic or anything (but I am so forgive me

) but SG1 did get lead by a NEW Colonel... and while he did not necessary get a whole new team, that was the intention by Landry... until Daniel touched something (as always) and the band eventually got back together

I'm assumming this is in reaction to Pol's comments about fanfic, in which case, Pol, do people really write stuff where SG1 as a designated team, doesn't exist?!! I feel fortunate that I've missed this on my radar...

**trinity3** · 21 June 2011, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by SamJackShipper93 View Post

Sanctuary Semi-OT/Spoilers:

Spoiler:

Gosh me too.

Spoiler:

Hopefully they'll make up for it in the new season **is hopeful**

I know there are lots of great shippy Sam/Jack fic but this one is short and I just love it http://annerbhp.livejournal.com/172145.html

**SaraBahama** · 21 June 2011, 06:04 PM

Pol -
Thanks as always for your thoughtful perspective...I PM'ed you a couple of additional questions on the timeline stuff.

Originally posted by hlndncr View Post

SaraB, I tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. You need to clean it out so I can respond to ya.

It's cleaned out! That always sneaks up on me

Originally posted by ddc View Post

While some people go for a Masters then a PhD it isn't necessary. Several friends of mine went righ into PhD programs. It is possible to complete the course work for a PhD in 3 years, though actually writing and defending the thesis can take several more years.

The PhD in Astrophysics I looked up did not list the MS as a prerequisite...the school had an MS, and mentioned that many students fulfilled the requirements of both during their studies. Oh! A thesis or dissertation?! ...Now I'm wondering what Sam's would have been on...wormhole theory? What happens if your thesis is classified??

**trinity3** · 21 June 2011, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by SaraBahama View Post

Pol -
Thanks as always for your thoughtful perspective...I PM'ed you a couple of additional questions on the timeline stuff.

It's cleaned out! That always sneaks up on me

The PhD in Astrophysics I looked up did not list the MS as a prerequisite...the school had an MS, and mentioned that many students fulfilled the requirements of both during their studies. Oh! A thesis or dissertation?! ...Now I'm wondering what Sam's would have been on...wormhole theory? What happens if your thesis is classified??

The title of Sam's thesis would be:

Space.......

.....It's not what you think.

**hedwig** · 21 June 2011, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by SaraBahama View Post

Pol -
Thanks as always for your thoughtful perspective...I PM'ed you a couple of additional questions on the timeline stuff.

It's cleaned out! That always sneaks up on me

The PhD in Astrophysics I looked up did not list the MS as a prerequisite...the school had an MS, and mentioned that many students fulfilled the requirements of both during their studies. Oh! A thesis or dissertation?! ...Now I'm wondering what Sam's would have been on...wormhole theory? What happens if your thesis is classified??

Not that it helps any, but the teacher in "Prodigy" that was on the stage with Sam while she was giving her lecture at the Academy seems to have known her as a student. At least that's my impression from their interaction. And General Kerrigan also seems to have known her when she was a student. Also my interpretation of their interaction.

**siles** · 21 June 2011, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by trinity3 View Post

Gosh me too.

Spoiler:

Hopefully they'll make up for it in the new season **is hopeful**

I know there are lots of great shippy Sam/Jack fic but this one is short and I just love it http://annerbhp.livejournal.com/172145.html

Sanctuary OT spoilers for last episode
[SPOILERSOLD]
I admit that I don't like Helen/John, but what John tried to do was incredibly idiotic: If if he had been successfull he would have killed this version of Helen???
[/SPOILERSOLD]

**SaraBahama** · 21 June 2011, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by trinity3 View Post

The title of Sam's thesis would be: Space.......
.....It's not what you think.

Laughing my head off! My husband did point out that there are such things as dissertations that are classified.

Originally posted by hedwig View Post

Not that it helps any, but the teacher in "Prodigy" that was on the stage with Sam while she was giving her lecture at the Academy seems to have known her as a student. At least that's my impression from their interaction. And General Kerrigan also seems to have known her when she was a student. Also my interpretation of their interaction.

No, hedwig...that's great! Thanks! I will re-watch and file that little item in my Sam info (if I ever have to write a flashback on that period or get to write a life of Sam fic it would be cool to include that).

I was just made aware of this info (and it is going to feature in something I write in the future. The Bahamas has underwater caves called 'Blue Holes' (I knew this part of the info), and one of them is called 'Stargate' (I never knew!). When you see the pic, you'll know why

:

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