Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[jasminaGo]

So my question to the thread is : Do you feel that Sam has been made into "The Girl".

Seasons 9/10 and Aot - Yes

It got waaaaay better in Atlantis (even though she could have been used a little more), and she was good in Continuum.

Just MHO.

[Tittamiire]

I love talking to strangers

This morning on the bus I sat down next to someone who proceeded to quiz me, in a Canadian accent, about the various weekly and monthly tickets available for the buses. Turns out she's a Vancouver native who has moved to Sheffield this week and was off on her first day of job hunting. It was my turn to quiz her on why on earth she had moved from Vancouver to Sheffield (family) and then we had a good old chat about the sights to see there and stuff

And I've managed to find a friend who has Sky One and didn't even bat an eyelid when I asked if I could turn up at his house and watch Continuum. He's a bit into Stargate so its not too much of an imposition on my part, but YAY!

[hisg1fans]

Last night I had a rather nasty thought. It was OMG they've finally made Sam into "The Girl".

This occurred to me after I had watched Continuum and started looking back at SG:1 over the years. It's just a thought at the moment and I'll have to think about it a bit but I'm not overly impressed at the moment. I'm afraid Stargate has gone from being my "light sci-f" (mainly because my personal preference is for much more complex storytelling) to being so light that it is now in danger of floating of my radar screen. Don't get me wrong, I liked Continuum enough to buy it BUT I felt it was exceptionally "light" / frivolous / airy??? Not sure what adjective to use.



So my question to the thread is : Do you feel that Sam has been made into "The Girl".

I've got a few thoughts but I'll have to get them into coherent order before I post.

What do you mean with the term 'The Girl'?

[Fresh_Horse]

what i like about it is...dude, sam and jack gets done to death, both on the show and in fanfic.

while sam and teal'c is just there, anything isn't overt on the show, so it's just friendship that you can read as something more, or ignore, as you prefer.

I like the two of them.

sam and jack is too easy, sam and daniel is incest, my version of sam would only use cam for stress relief, but teal'c has this deep level of caring that's just fun.

I agree. Sam/Teal'c friend(ship) was nicely done in Unending and also in earlier episodes. Over the years there have been several scenes that can be interpreted as either ship or friendship.

I vaguely recall (and I may have been in an alternate universe when I think I heard this) AT saying something about how she and Chris Judge played around with the notion of Sam and Teal'c having been together eventually in all those years on the ship in "Unending", or wanted to give a hint in that direction. Did anybody else hear that?

Yep, not sure where. I think I recall an mp3-file that I downloaded from whatever site. It definitely wasn't just a transcript of an interview.

Yes, today with today's technology you can get hi res crisp, readable images but when the ep was released who had more than a VCR available to freeze frame?? Not too many.

It was a prop not meant to be read.

Lol, you are so right! I remember trying to freeze frame the scene with my VCR. I gave up in the end.

the most sympathetic person in unending has to be cameron. sam had teal'c, daniel had vala, landry, well he was an old man, but cameron was all alone

"Sympathetic"? How about pathetic? You're stuck on a ship for the rest of your life and jogging is the way you spend it?
What a waste of life! What a waste of something so precious!
Sam was busy trying to safe them but still had time to learn play cello, Cam could have done something similar.

I stopped watching the show in season 7 (watched the odd ep or two of the following seasons) so I really don't know anything about Cam, but from what I saw of him in Unending, LitS and Continuum he could just be a red shirt. The character seems to have zero depth much like the guy on Atlantis.
Sheesh, can't even remember the name of the character.
Anyway, most of Atlantis 4 eps seemed to be centered around the guy and I found myself fastforwarding through a lot of stuff to finally get to see Sam.
In the end I gave up and didn't watch it unless someone told me that Sam was in it.

I think somewhere during the last couple of years the writers really screwed up with their male leads.

The male leads of both SG 1 (post Jack) and Atlantis have the depth of a flea's swimming pool.

All gung-ho, testosterone driven action but no brains. Or maybe I am wrong and they only behaved like that in the few episodes I did watch?!

RL sucks ATM:

Spoiler:

Took my bike for a ride, after about 2 miles, the back tire went flat. Not sure what it was but there's a pretty big hole in the tire. Brought it to the shop, let's see how much they want this time.
Last 2 weeks in short: clutch of my car blew, bike was stolen, new bike's front tire was flat after the first trip, back tire went flat during the 4th trip. Yeah, my vacation went smooth as a cobble stone street layered with rubble.
I was contemplating finally doing my taxes but with the way things have been going lately I'd better not. Who knows, I'd probably end up paying the government. *shudder*

[silly sally]

I might upset some fellow shippers, but the only canon romantic relationship for Sam non-AU, non-AT is with Pete, whether we like it or not... (and maybe with Jonas but that was before the show)

[Mary-Jane]

HEE HEEEEE


Just saw Continuum. First time I watched it I was all googly eyed...
then the second time...I took notes.......NERD!

The Arctic special is hilarious and amazing!

[tayradio]

So my question to the thread is : Do you feel that Sam has been made into "The Girl".

I'm a recent Sam-fan, so I'm not sure how this is going to come out. I never really liked Sam much until the last season or so of SG-1, and then I really liked her a lot in Atlantis, and adored her in the two movies.

I thought she started out as The Girl. I mean, that whole "reproductive organs on the inside" thing just turned my stomach. She came in screaming that she was The Girl (with an attitude, yet). Emancipation - stick her in a frilly frock and point out again that she is The Girl. Broca Divide, she's the one strongly objecting to the male/female interaction on the Dark Side, again setting herself aside as The Girl. First Commandment - couldn't she have known Jonas Hanson from.... college? The Academy? Grew up in the same neighborhood? Why did he have to be her former fiance? Maybe that's a stretch, but it made me feel like, once again, here's The Girl.

As they let Sam develop as a proper character I think she lost her "I'm The Girl" tag. I'd say that by the middle of season one I felt like they'd kind of let her slide away from that slot.

Then, I felt like they did it to her again in fits and spurts throughout the run of the show. I thought they really "fluffed" her in season four a little too much, and then in season five she back to Not The Girl again.

Seasons 7 and 8 I saw The Girl again, although it looked like at that time they were trying to show us The Woman, and I just wasn't all that interested. I would rather have seen The Character. Then in season 9 they turned around again and out came Not The Girl.

Like I said, I really didn't like her much as a character until I saw her in the latest seasons on SG-1, Atlantis and the movies. Now I'm kind of watching the series again in reverse order and I'm finding that I do like her in the other, earlier season of SG-1, after seeing where she wound up and who she evolved into. Right now, as of viewing Continuum I'd say that they're in a Not The Girl phase!

[Skydiver]

Right...but if you don't see Sam and Teal'c as a couple...why would you want to read it? I don't mean you, you, I mean "you" as in general.

I read Sam/Jack because I see them as canon. Not everyone does, of course...but I don't personally ever think the fic or ship is done to death.

I can't get bored of them and move on to another pairing just because I've seen a million "shagging" off-world fics.

I don't read nearly enough to need to read every pairing out there. I read what I'm interested in, not just to read.

Although, on the other hand, I can easily understand getting bored if you've read it ALL. Which, I am guessing,you likely have. LOL

I haven't even made a dent, myself.

see, for me, i've been reading sam and jack fic since season two. That's almost 10 years of fic, and there's not much out there that i haven't read when it comes to a story.

every once in a while an author does come up with a new twist or something different...but, at its most basic, a lot of them are just different takes on teh same story. so, for me, been there, read that.

[Fresh_Horse]

I'm a recent Sam-fan, so I'm not sure how this is going to come out. I never really liked Sam much until the last season or so of SG-1, and then I really liked her a lot in Atlantis, and adored her in the two movies.

*snip*
Seasons 7 and 8 I saw The Girl again, although it looked like at that time they were trying to show us The Woman, and I just wasn't all that interested. I would rather have seen The Character. Then in season 9 they turned around again and out came Not The Girl.

Like I said, I really didn't like her much as a character until I saw her in the latest seasons on SG-1, Atlantis and the movies. Now I'm kind of watching the series again in reverse order and I'm finding that I do like her in the other, earlier season of SG-1, after seeing where she wound up and who she evolved into. Right now, as of viewing Continuum I'd say that they're in a Not The Girl phase!

IMO, they made a strong female character (Sam) weak in season 7 so a weak male character could be made stronger.
The whole: "I need a guy so my life is complete" storyline was too much for me. That's the main reason I quit watching.

They didn't do anything like that to one of the male characters, so why do it to a female character?

As for Continuum:

Spoiler:

When they gated to the ship Sam wasn't really Sam and having Cam remind her that "we all know what happened back there but you need to focus" line put her in the "girl" corner.
Is that really the same character as the one in "Torment of Tantalus" that tried to fix the DHD or hook up a reactor to the gate to get them off the planet while the archaeologist was fascinated by the "explanation of the universe gizmo".
Love the episode but that part just never seemed right to me. People always explain it with Sam being extremely focused on the task at hand.

(Side note: All I can think of is that she is an astrophysicist. What do theoretical astrophysicists do? They explain the friggin' universe.
Yet she did not show any interest at all for the gizmo instead she looked at it and went "That's nice! Umh, do you guys have a two-by-four, duct tape, aluminum foil and gum?" and went back to working on the reactor/gate. Focused indeed.)

[ParadoxRealities]

RoX: totally with you on the Mitchell replaced Sam (not Jack) thing. And maybe where I hang out biases this, but I don't think many people saw Mitchell as usurping Jack's role. Every once in a while a new poster will come in and say, "HOW F-ING DARE THEY?!!?", and we'll say RDA wanted to leave to be with his daughter, and they'll say, "...oh...ok...never mind", and that'll be the end of that. "Usurp" has a negative connotation that I've only seen in regards to Mitchell and Sam, not Mitchell and Jack.

I might upset some fellow shippers, but the only canon romantic relationship for Sam non-AU, non-AT is with Pete, whether we like it or not... (and maybe with Jonas but that was before the show)

That depends on how much you need to qualify as ship. For instance: Martouf/Lantash, Orlin, Narim.

Seasons 7 and 8 I saw The Girl again, although it looked like at that time they were trying to show us The Woman, and I just wasn't all that interested. I would rather have seen The Character. Then in season 9 they turned around again and out came Not The Girl.

I pretty much agree with everything, though I'd like to add something to the s9 comment (haven't seen 10.5 and the movies). You're probably right for the vast majority of in-show demonstrations--TPTB like Vala as The Girl much more than Sam, for which I am eternally grateful. But I can't get over seeing Mitchell's intro--the way Mitchell was intro'd--as an entirely sexist move. Even after the intro, they continued to weaken her character to make Mitchell look better. That's slightly OT though, because they weakened some others (males) as well. So TPTB didn't want to show her as The Girl, but by golly, they certainly knew she was. Just my 2c.

I will say I kinda liked The Woman, not because of TPTB's desire to show her or skill at doing so (I think that was pretty low on both counts), but because AT did it so freaking well. That's what really made me love AT even more, and it did a little for me liking Sam. If I hadn't been a Sam fan (or worse, an anti) to begin with though, it may not have done much for me.

[Celandine]

On the whole conversation of "how old is Carter" and does the Entity screenshot count. There's a great entry in sg_fignewton's livejournal. S/he does a bunch stuff about canon vs fanon. Mostly it's about Daniel but there's a "Sam Carter" edition and one of the things discussed quite well, taking all we know without a shadow of a doubt (ie, her military service), is her age (it's actually in the context of who's older, Daniel or Carter). It arrives at a fairly firm date of when she had to be born. And it's worth reading on its own just for interest's sake because it addresses "Uncle George" and "Sammie."

The link: http://sg-fignewton.livejournal.com/...l?format=light

meh...was a slightly interesting read, but I would take what sg fignewton says with a grain of salt as I feel some of what she states as being debatable still. Just my opinion. *shrug*

[KatG]

As for Continuum:

Spoiler:

When they gated to the ship Sam wasn't really Sam and having Cam remind her that "we all know what happened back there but you need to focus" line put her in the "girl" corner.
Is that really the same character as the one in "Torment of Tantalus" that tried to fix the DHD or hook up a reactor to the gate to get them off the planet while the archaeologist was fascinated by the "explanation of the universe gizmo".
Love the episode but that part just never seemed right to me. People always explain it with Sam being extremely focused on the task at hand.

(Side note: All I can think of is that she is an astrophysicist. What do theoretical astrophysicists do? They explain the friggin' universe.
Yet she did not show any interest at all for the gizmo instead she looked at it and went "That's nice! Umh, do you guys have a two-by-four, duct tape, aluminum foil and gum?" and went back to working on the reactor/gate. Focused indeed.)

Regarding Continuum

Spoiler:

I don't see Sam as being "the girl" just because it took her a moment to focus on the situation at hand. If having an emotion for just a moment, after seeing an extremely close friend (how close depends on your POV) die right in front of you, makes you "the girl" then I'd rather see that for a moment than Daniel's "no reaction" to his supposedly best friend (his words) dying right in front of him.

Yes, Sam had a moment, but as soon as Cam said something, she focused on what needed to be done. That to me is just part of who Sam is, someone who cares but who can do what needs to be done.

[Bekah See]

I thought she started out as The Girl. I mean, that whole "reproductive organs on the inside" thing just turned my stomach. She came in screaming that she was The Girl (with an attitude, yet). Emancipation - stick her in a frilly frock and point out again that she is The Girl. Broca Divide, she's the one strongly objecting to the male/female interaction on the Dark Side, again setting herself aside as The Girl. First Commandment - couldn't she have known Jonas Hanson from.... college? The Academy? Grew up in the same neighborhood? Why did he have to be her former fiance? Maybe that's a stretch, but it made me feel like, once again, here's The Girl.

As they let Sam develop as a proper character I think she lost her "I'm The Girl" tag. I'd say that by the middle of season one I felt like they'd kind of let her slide away from that slot.

Then, I felt like they did it to her again in fits and spurts throughout the run of the show. I thought they really "fluffed" her in season four a little too much, and then in season five she back to Not The Girl again.

Seasons 7 and 8 I saw The Girl again, although it looked like at that time they were trying to show us The Woman, and I just wasn't all that interested. I would rather have seen The Character. Then in season 9 they turned around again and out came Not The Girl.

Like I said, I really didn't like her much as a character until I saw her in the latest seasons on SG-1, Atlantis and the movies. Now I'm kind of watching the series again in reverse order and I'm finding that I do like her in the other, earlier season of SG-1, after seeing where she wound up and who she evolved into. Right now, as of viewing Continuum I'd say that they're in a Not The Girl phase!

Hmm, the beginning of season 1 I can see your point. I think everyone (including AT) cringed at the reproductive organs line, and Sam had to find her place with all the guys. She was "The Girl", whether she liked it or not, and had to prove she wasn't a fluffy idiot, which she did in Singularity and a few others.

As for the rest of your examples, it sounds like the more shippy seasons are what put Sam in "The Girl" slot for you. Is that what did it? Or was it something else? Because there are a lot of "shippy" moments in those seasons, but there are a heck of a lot of "Sam is kicking some major a** moments too. In Absolute Power, she's the only one who gets thrown in prison for standing up to Daniel, in 2010 she's the one who makes it to the stargate with the note to send back.

Season 7 has Grace and Death Knell, and last time I checked there's no fluff in either of those save the kiss at the end of Grace, and that was just in her head. Not to mention Evolution 1 and 2 where she leads the team to scope out the super soldiers.

Season 8 has Reckoning, where she and her dad figure out how to turn the ancient weapon into a replicator killer, and Moebius, where she stands up to everyone, including Jack, and insists that they cannot alter the timeline and have to stay in ancient egypt. I see no fluff in any of this. I see a strong, well developed character.

What's interesting is your assertion that Sam came back in Season 9, but that was easily the most Sam light season of them all. Even when she was there, she was in the background. It was all about Daniel and Vala.

Not trying to be combative or anything. Just stating my opinion.

As for Continuum:

Spoiler:

When they gated to the ship Sam wasn't really Sam and having Cam remind her that "we all know what happened back there but you need to focus" line put her in the "girl" corner.

(

See, in Continuum, whether you're a shipper or not,

Spoiler:

If Sam hadn't had any reaction when Jack was KILLED, it would have been really weird. Come on, she's worked closely with the guy for how many years now, and even if they aren't together, she has a ton of respect for him and probably loves him like family or closer. Her reaction made her human. If it hadn't been there, we would be complaining how TPTB don't ever write enough of the "emotional fallout" stuff in the scripts.

[SamJackShipLover]

She finally wrote that book. Unfortunately, she can't publish, since she can't be involved with her field. So she is now writing a SciFi romance novel.

yeah, sam and teal'c in unending was almmost as 'canon' as daniel/vala, just not as explicitly shown

Except Sam / Teal'c wasn't written, just AT and CJ thinking it would be fun, right? I didn't see the ep yet, but that's what I read. Lots of people totally missed the S/T thing.

I might upset some fellow shippers, but the only canon romantic relationship for Sam non-AU, non-AT is with Pete, whether we like it or not... (and maybe with Jonas but that was before the show)

I don't feel upset, I just don't agree. Sam / Jack is canon to me ... and Brad Wright said it was OK to see it like that

Personal OT

Spoiler:

Tomorrow I have another surgery. Last time I had to stay 4 nights, this one is only 1 day. So, this time tomorrow I should be home. Feeling pretty nervous though. The whole going under anestetic thing is just scary. And also, I'm hoping for good results. I'll probably know right after as well.

Mehhh. I think I'm going to be thinking about the strong women from this thread ... it gives me strenght

I'll have to stay home next week. Big chance you'll see some photoshopping from me (if I'm not too drugged out lol, went to pick up the painkillers yesterday, it are lots)!

(((Samanda)))

[MerryK]

That depends on how much you need to qualify as ship. For instance: Martouf/Lantash, Orlin, Narim.I pretty much agree with everything, though I'd like to add something to the s9 comment (haven't seen 10.5 and the movies). You're probably right for the vast majority of in-show demonstrations--TPTB like Vala as The Girl much more than Sam, for which I am eternally grateful. But I can't get over seeing Mitchell's intro--the way Mitchell was intro'd--as an entirely sexist move. Even after the intro, they continued to weaken her character to make Mitchell look better. That's slightly OT though, because they weakened some others (males) as well. So TPTB didn't want to show her as The Girl, but by golly, they certainly knew she was. Just my 2c.

I am so glad I missed all the controversy when Mitchell first took over...I never got any of those connotations from his intro, because as far as I was concerned, SG-1 was no more and a new SG-1 was being formed. All new people were supposed to come in, it was just Mitchell's stubbornness that made it otherwise, so no one was being replaced.

Had Mitchell been a female Colonel, would we be having this discussion? By himself, Mitchell wasn't really offensive—he wasn't better than anyone on the team, and was frequently worse, he just got all the attention because he was the new character. Actually, had Mitchell been female, he would have been called a sexist character, what with all his bumbling and subservience to the rest of SG-1.

But I don't think it was the fact that Sam was a woman that made TPTB leave her out (she did get some command in Season 8), it was just that they didn't know how to write her as commander after eight years of being 2IC. They did try to take her character in new directions in Season 9 and 10, not submissive but not in command either, just kind of independent. That apparently warmed them up for writing her in true command on Atlantis.