Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[Strix varia]

I'm sorry if I did not make this clear, but I meant that Sam is a bit overconfident about her problem-solving/scientific skills, while lacking a bit of authority when in charge.

It's less of what she says, but how she says it and the looks on her face. Any time Mckay brought something up, she looked disgusted and disdainful—yes, he was a jerk, but it didn't come across like just annoyance at his attitude. There's been other instances with military or political people, and she doesn't just look frustrated that they're suggesting stupid ideas, she looks downright upset that they would question her. My interpretation, of course.

And just as a point of interest, I just don't see all that much overconfidence in Sam, so a lot of my opinion is purely interpretation. I only brought it up because it's one of the small flaws I see in her. Small. There's not much to defend here, I'm not saying she's on par with Mckay. (Oh, and I brought up Simon from Firefly as an example of a similar character who I equally love for much the same reasons, but who fandom treats very differently to Sam.)

I see where you're coming from, MerryK. Although I don't interpret those scenes in the same way you do I could see how one could do so. I might agree with saying that Sam is sometimes overconfident in her abilities, but I would also say that being right 9.9 times out of 10 is naturally going to lead an individual to be extremely confident in their own abilities, and rightfully so.

I wonder if gender doesn't play a role here. Research has shown that what people perceive as confidence in men is often perceived as arrogance in women, not only in leadership roles, but in the sciences, as well. This goes back to the age old perception that women should be submissive, pleasant, people-pleasers rather than leaders and scientific problem-solvers (in Sam's case).

It's fairly well documented that boys, generally, have fewer self-esteem issues than girls, and hence, behaviors differ accordingly. A girl or woman who exhibits the same self-esteem as boys or men is a bit unusual, and may be perceived as having self-esteem that is too high (ie. arrogant, overconfident) in comparison to her female peers.

Would we be having this conversation if Sam were a guy? I have to wonder...

[Chelle DB]

I should just say before I head off to bed and it is already officially the 19th of June....

Happy Birthday Über!!!!!

[atfan]

Would we be having this conversation if Sam were a guy? I have to wonder...

Two Words Cameron Mitchell - arrogance without reason, okay maybe more than 2. Despite the military being more gender friendly these days there is the need to prove yourself capable of handling crisis and unexpected situations. Women in leadership positions are usually seen as either being *****y excuse the language, or arrogant. In Sam's case, she was in early seasons a little too by the book and confident in her abilities. She has to be that way O'Neill wasn't exactly welcoming at first either. The need to prove herself that she belongs on SG-1 is paramount to her everything else is secondary. Because she is so good looking and attractive plus the stereotype that blonds are dumb makes it that much harder for her in general to be accepted as a valuable and knowledgable member of the team. Hate to say it but if she were a little more Geeky and less attractive she would have been taken seriously instead she has to be more confident and self-assured so people will listen to her and take her advice. The reason she was so rude with McKay was he started making assumptions about her and was not taking her seriously even bordering on sexual harassment with some of his comments to her he is lucky she didn't report him she stayed professional he didn't.

[Bekah See]

I should just say before I head off to bed and it is already officially the 19th of June....

Happy Birthday Über!!!!!

that dog sure gets a lot of work around here! does he get paid by the lick??

[Skydiver]

I don't see cam as arrogant, and not to belabour a point where it's kinda off topci, but i see cam as less arrogant and more enthusiastic without common sense

sam, in her experience, has 'been there and done that'. she knows how to pace herself and take it slow and knows the universe will always be there. But cam seems to have this 'hurry up before they change thier minds/it all changes, it all goes away' drive an he lets his enthusiasm override his common sense and he tends to run head long into things rather than sitting back and taking it in

it is something he 'grew' out of in the later part of s10, but it is a trait that they overplayed - at least to me - in the first 3/4th of his run.

[Skydiver]

cross posted from the samanda group since i know that folks don't always visit that

All,
Denise's condition has deteriorated overnight. I thank you all so very much for the cards, well wishes, prayers, and phone calls. At this time I do ask that phone calls not be made as our family is spending the time together celebrating Denise's life. Please continue the prayers for us at this time. It is our faith in the Lord and the support from friends that is the most important.

God Bless you all

Ron

[atfan]

I don't see cam as arrogant, and not to belabour a point where it's kinda off topci, but i see cam as less arrogant and more enthusiastic without common sense

sam, in her experience, has 'been there and done that'. she knows how to pace herself and take it slow and knows the universe will always be there. But cam seems to have this 'hurry up before they change thier minds/it all changes, it all goes away' drive an he lets his enthusiasm override his common sense and he tends to run head long into things rather than sitting back and taking it in

it is something he 'grew' out of in the later part of s10, but it is a trait that they overplayed - at least to me - in the first 3/4th of his run.

I suppose you are right especially about Sam but Cam was arrogant when it came to dangerous situations part of that was his enthusiasm but he thought just because he was suddenly part of SG-1 nothing would go wrong and everything would be okay no matter what he did. I think taking on leadership of SG-1 with no experience made him arrogant as well as clueless.

[scifithinker]

I think it would be neat to have an SG version of 'Army Wives' -- something looking at the significant others/families of those who are involved in the project - how do those on the perifery get on when things go wrong? Or heck, even when things go right? I find it hard to believe that all members of active away teams were single and had no close immediate family of which to speak ... even nosy neighbours? Or as mentioned in the Pete discussion, what about the local law enforcement? We got a little bit of that element with Cassie, but then again, she was definitely a special case in that she not only knew, but was in a respect part of the program as well. Can anyone direct me in the direction of already existing fic along these lines, or should I add this burgeoning plot bunny to my 3 already on the go? B/c the more I think about it .... (then again, I've always been a bit of a soap opera fan at heart ) Hmmmmmm......

Look at Dave Dixon, father of four and leader of sg13

or wells, on his team, whose wife just had a baby

they're all far from single

and i'm not talking aobut a huge massive plot arc, just, well when there were eps that needed to be jack light in season 8, why not have one that's the minor characters? such as a misison from siler and harriman's pov? and then have the random bits and pieces about family members.

jsut an episode, or bits of them, that coujld explore the ramifications of family and the sgc

Yes, I think that would/would've been great to see how the families of SGC personnel coped with things, like when SGC was under lockdown for days/weeks at a time, or maybe a look at SG1 from someone else's (another member of the SGC) perspective.

Star Trek: The Next Generation did an episode called "Lower Decks" that used this premise effectively. The story focused on four junior officers but also included the regular characters.

I can see this premise working effectively for SG-1 as well. A prime time to have used it would have been in season 8 when they were focusing on the base as opposed to off world. It would have had the added bonus of dovetailing nicely with RDA's reduced schedule and the resulting overscheduling of the rest of the team.

In the Next Gen episode, one of the junior officers dies. Translated to SG-1, it would have been an effective way to show the jeopardy the team faces on a regular basis without killing off a major character a la Janet and Selmak. Had it been someone from one of the science labs, it would have a powerful impact on Sam, especially if the character didn't travel through the stargate and was, therefore, considered to be "safe."

[jz9]

cross posted from the samanda group since i know that folks don't always visit that

Quote:
All,
Denise's condition has deteriorated overnight. I thank you all so very much for the cards, well wishes, prayers, and phone calls. At this time I do ask that phone calls not be made as our family is spending the time together celebrating Denise's life. Please continue the prayers for us at this time. It is our faith in the Lord and the support from friends that is the most important.

God Bless you all

Ron

Appreciate your letting us know Sky. I am very sad to hear about Denise. However I am very thankful her family's faith in the Lord will carry them through this most difficult time. Personally I do not know her that well, but have been impressed by her strength of character. The way she has fought the disease without giving up has been inspiring. I am also thankful to have had the opportunity to say hi to her the last couple of days on this thread. Will definitely be praying for her and family.

[wibbling]

cross posted from the samanda group since i know that folks don't always visit that

All,
Denise's condition has deteriorated overnight. I thank you all so very much for the cards, well wishes, prayers, and phone calls. At this time I do ask that phone calls not be made as our family is spending the time together celebrating Denise's life. Please continue the prayers for us at this time. It is our faith in the Lord and the support from friends that is the most important.

God Bless you all

Ron

Thanks so much for letting us know. I shall be keeping Deejay and her family in my prayers at this dreadful time for them all, and will pray particularly that they are all supported through the final hurdle.

[jckfan55]

in some ways, i think sam sees john less as a subordinant and more of a compatriot.

she IS the boss. but she also knows that he's logged a LOT more peggy galaxy time than she has, so she acknowledges his experience

I didn't really see it as a problem, but I could see how it *could* be seen that way. I thought they always operated as a team, but he still recognized her as his CO.

[scifithinker]

cross posted from the samanda group since i know that folks don't always visit that

Thank you for posting as it would have been a while before I saw it otherwise.

Isn't it incredible how much you can care about people you've never actually met?

[atfan]

I didn't really see it as a problem, but I could see how it *could* be seen that way. I thought they always operated as a team, but he still recognized her as his CO.

I liked how they fleshed out that relationship the Seer was excellent and the balcony scene still makes me cry so touching. The intial balcony scene for them was when Sam first comes to Atlantis and talks to John sets up their relationship nicely She is his CO but doesn't want to try taking over his role with his team he congratulates her on her promotion as well.

[atfan]

Look at Dave Dixon, father of four and leader of sg13

or wells, on his team, whose wife just had a baby

they're all far from single

and i'm not talking aobut a huge massive plot arc, just, well when there were eps that needed to be jack light in season 8, why not have one that's the minor characters? such as a misison from siler and harriman's pov? and then have the random bits and pieces about family members.

jsut an episode, or bits of them, that coujld explore the ramifications of family and the sgc

Would make a great fan fic as well (((Sky))) are you up to the challenge? I bet you could do a great job of it. In so many ways I was disappointed with season eight they could have done so much more.

[jckfan55]

The reason she was so rude with McKay was he started making assumptions about her and was not taking her seriously even bordering on sexual harassment with some of his comments to her he is lucky she didn't report him she stayed professional he didn't.

good point.