Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[ann_sgcfan]

Here's my personal take on the whole Amanda/Sam/ship debate.

I think Amanda gets sick to freakin' death of being asked about Sam and Jack. I think she gets to a point where every once in awhile, she wants people to just stop asking about this one topic. Please. She'd never say it directly...she's conscious of how important the issue is to some of her fans and is too gracious to tell them to stuff it...but every so often you can feel an edginess to her answers about ship that communicate her intermittent irritation. Then there are times when she just doesn't know what should happen and honestly communicates that sentiment as well.

Don't get me wrong now. I am a shipper and want to see an onscreen resolve of some sort for those two. I think with all they did in Seasons 7 and 8, to not do so would be detrimental to her character's story arc...just as much as it would be if they simply ignored that she led the team for a year or if they summarily demoted her by taking her command away with no controversy, friction or conflict. (Hmm...that last part sounds familiar).

Not to say that I think ship is more important than the other aspects that make up who she is, but it is as essential because it's a journey she went on and learned a lot about herself...learned what she wanted and what she didn't want. That's important character growth any way you look at it, even if the execution might not have been as shiny as some people would have preferred.

But while it is as essential as her other personality/character traits, this does not translate as meaning "requires as much screentime as her other personality/character traits." It needs to be addressed but not focused upon as an A story...or even a B story for that matter.

The key for me I think is balance...focusing on her more prominent/dominant traits that portray why she is on SG-1, what she contributes to the show and to the team...while giving nods every now and then to her extra personality flavors and seasonings. The little taste of that other side of her so much time was spent on a couple of years back and then almost completely ignored.

Sam the officer/fighter/scientist/leader doesn't need ship to function or to have value as either a leading character or as a member of the team. Sam the character needs the offsetting balance that acknowledging the personal journey she took affords.

All work and no play makes Sam one dimensional and for me at least is just as out of balance as only showing her personal side; and I like my Carter to be multi-dimensional and beautifully layered with beaucoup substance and pathos.

Again...for me, it's all about balance.

Well said Über! I agree. I want balance as well. I'm a shipper too, and I don't want only Sam's possible relationship with Jack to be the only side I see of the character. I like to see the kick butt soldier/scientist/techno babble/find the solution/ lead the team Sam too.

I like both Sam and Jack as separate characters. I also like them as a possible couple. But I don't want either character diminished to only one half of a ship and not have any other stories, or character development. I do not ever want to see Sam pinning away over JAck or JAck pinning for Sam. I don't want Sam known as JAck's girl or Jack known as Sam's guy. They are two great characters, I don't want to see that destroyed.

For me one of the things I always liked about the ship is the fact that they both put their honor and dedication above their own wants. Does that mean I don't want the ship resolved, well no. But I do want it to be cleverly resolved with class. THe same class Sam and Jack have shown by not pursuing a relationship over the years. Can the writers do that? I would say no, not with what I have seen. So I can understand AT's comments about her views on the ship. It doesn't really bother me. She knows the writes better than me. I don't really blame her. I agree with several that said AT is probably tired of answering that question.

Jo R. wrote a great story where Sam is secretly leading a military group (much like SG-1) and Jack is leading SG-1. So they were equals in their careers and a relationship. It shows the strengths of both characters while they try to understand their personal life together. Can the writers pull something like that off? Doubtful, but that would be something I would like to see.

EDIT: Jo R. story is called Masquerade. http://randomramblings.faithweb.com/...squerade01.htm

[ann_sgcfan]

here's a thought that just popped into my head.

pick one episode where you'd like or love to trade places with sam. (this isn't an easy question, because would *you* want to live through this experience?)

sally

THat is a difficult question... hmm I think my love of speed and my love of the stars. I would choose Space Race. I would love to be an intergalactical race where planets are your markers. Of course I would have to have Sam's knowledge to actually understand what I was supposed to do.

[Thor Asgard]

Hey people... This is Lord Minister. I forgot my password and had ot make a new account. So whats gonig on?

[ReganX]

no, they *gave* her storylines away. or dropped them. or ignored them.

former host abilities: vala's now.

leading sg1: mitchell's now.

dad's dead.

cassie is ignored.

replicarter either ignored or dead.

best friend janet is dead.

her brother and family ignored.

Exactly. As of the end of Season Eight, there was no shortage of material to explore for Sam's character. If TPTB didn't know what to do with her in Season Nine, they had only themselves to blame.

she's a scientist and soldier only now, none of which really *focus* on her. and even if they gave her storylines away (two biggies), they could have, you know, written something NEW for her.

Unfortunately for Sam (and for us), AT never starred in Farscape, so her character seems to be of little interest to TPTB. Why waste a perfectly good (okay, mediocre at best) storyline on an established, non-shiny character when they had a brand new Mary Sue and Marty Stu to pimp?

and this is why i'm glad this is all coming to an end. i really don't feel like sg1 was cancelled this season, but in season 9. my sg1 died in season 9.

My SG-1 are still working at the SGC - Jack as base commander, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c as SG-1 under Sam's command - blissfully unaware of the complete and utter disaster of a timeline we have been presented with for Seasons Nine and Ten.

They've never even heard of the Ori and Sam and Jack are busy planning their wedding. Daniel and Teal'c are arguing over who gets to be best man.

[ReganX]

Well said Über! I agree. I want balance as well. I'm a shipper too, and I don't want only Sam's possible relationship with Jack to be the only side I see of the character. I like to see the kick butt soldier/scientist/techno babble/find the solution/ lead the team Sam too.

I like both Sam and Jack as separate characters. I also like them as a possible couple. But I don't want either character diminished to only one half of a ship and not have any other stories, or character development. I do not ever want to see Sam pinning away over JAck or JAck pinning for Sam. I don't want Sam known as JAck's girl or Jack known as Sam's guy. They are two great characters, I don't want to see that destroyed.

Same here. I definitely enjoy the Sam/Jack pairing but if it couldn't be done except at the expense of Sam and/or Jack as characters, I wouldn't want to see it. Being romantically involved need not mean that they become joined at the hip 24/7, that they cease to have individual stories or that their bonds with the other characters, together with the other characters themselves, become irrelevent.

For me one of the things I always liked about the ship is the fact that they both put their honor and dedication above their own wants.

That's something I love about their story. It would have been easy enough for Jack to retire or for one of them to transfer to another team to allow them to pursue a relationship but I think that they both recognized that to do so would compromise the team as a whole, as well as risk putting the planet in danger and they weren't prepared to do that. They put the good of others ahead of their personal desires.

[Rachel500]

no, they *gave* her storylines away. or dropped them. or ignored them.

former host abilities: vala's now.
leading sg1: mitchell's now.
dad's dead.
cassie is ignored.
replicarter either ignored or dead.
best friend janet is dead.
her brother and family ignored.

she's a scientist and soldier only now, none of which really *focus* on her. and even if they gave her storylines away (two biggies), they could have, you know, written something NEW for her.

*takes deep breath*

and this is why i'm glad this is all coming to an end. i really don't feel like sg1 was cancelled this season, but in season 9. my sg1 died in season 9.

sally

Sally, I hope you didn't think I was suggesting there wasn't anything else for TPTB to focus on - I agree with you; there was/is a tremendous amount of character development they could have written for Sam either based on her past history or indeed in creating something new...what I was saying was that for me it doesn't seem that TPTB could actually see beyond the Sam/Jack arc for Sam as a character so when Jack disappeared, they struggled with what to do with her. Hence the crappy storylines or lack thereof for Sam in S9 and to some degree in S10 to date. The ship itself is not responsible for that - the responsibility lies with TPTB for their lack of vision regarding their own characters.

All the characters have suffered with the tunnel vision of TPTB at times it seems; Daniel had the same issue when they got rid of Sha'uri; they've struggled with what to do with Teal'c since the Jaffa gained the freedom although they do seem to have tried to get round it by linking the Jaffa thread into the Ori storyline at least and I think they're struggling to know what to do with Mitchell now that he's fully introduced and part of the team. Even when Jack stopped being the SG1 leader and became the SGC commander they seemed to fumble a little with what to do with the character since he'd lost his main schtick so to speak.

Personally, as a writer, I find such a lack of imagination appalling and I think it comes down to lack of real planning on character development. Just MHO.

[Rachel500]

BINGO.

They never made up their minds about ship so the writing of it and the lack of writing of it seemed so uneven. Some of it I can fanwank away but other bits were simply sloppily done IMHO.

By the way, what you described here is what I'd call a distinct lack of balance with regard to writing Carter's story arcs. Unlike you, I didn't mind delving more into her psyche and seeing some of her emotional flaws and quirks...I just wasn't thrilled with the notion of that being her only story. I never thought it was her only story by the way...but you know, to have a PTB tell Amanda they didn't know what to do with her character only works to confirm this possibility...something I believe would have to be her worst fear as an actress...that she really is just the girl in the kinda-sorta relationship with the hero; and that without that hero present, she serves no purpose whatsoever.

Like Amanda and so many of us here have said, Sam is OH so much more than the other half of Jack'n'Sam. She's blown up a sun! She's killed gods! She's diverted blackholes! She's a hero and a leader! She's funny and snarky! She's brilliant and quirky! Just a fantastic character.

The pendulum swung so far towards her personal life that they forgot about who she really is. And that happens in reality too. Sometimes a personal struggle or conflict overrides all else and becomes all encompassing. FOR A TIME. But then, once a crisis passes and the dust settles, the rest of who someone is or contributes doesn't just vanish or become unknowable.

Lack of balance. The theme for Season 9. That and missed opportunities.

That season never meshed for me...and I totally agree with Amanda about how that turned out. She didn't say this in so many words, but I think one of the biggest failings of the season was that the writers/PTB seemed to try to turn Carter into just a supporting character...someone simply there to move the plot and deliver lines. And while that's true of everyone every once in a while, permanently placing her in that role simply lacked both logic and a sense of cohesion with her character's past and her natural place on the team.

Ignoring the major events of her life in the past year and a half also threw things off for me. The throwaway lines about Cassie and Pete and the "Not exactly" and little to no mention of Janet, zero acknowledgement of her father's death, no dealing with her no longer leading the team or the hows and whys of what happened to make that so, rewriting canon for a joke like they did with Martouf and Orlin and completely and totally ignoring Jack O'Neill and his importance to Sam and the others (and here I mean beyond the ship debate...but that TOO dagnabbit)...*mutters under breath* Do you realize that there was not even ONE scene with Sam and Jack last year? Or Jack and Teal'c? That's just a nightmare for me personally.

Like I said though, Season 9 will always and forever be just a complete disaster area of imbalance and missed and lost opportunities for Sam and the show. It also heralds what is one of the biggest slaps in the face I've ever seen with regard to both the unbelievably clumsy and inglorious manner in which one of the characters that made them the success that they were was written back in (and essentially treated as a glorified extra) as well as the astonishingly shoddy treatment of someone who has given 110% to supporting and promoting the franchise.
Wow. I'm talkative tonight. I've got a cold so I hope I'm making sense. Perhaps it'd be best if I went and took my NyQuil and left you all in peace for the evening.

Well said and I totally agree with you on the part that I bolded. They could have used the opportunity of AT's maternity leave to have created a fantastic character arc for Sam and demonstrated how valued both AT and Sam were in doing so. As it is, the way the character is written out and written back in seems to have been nothing more than afterthought which is extremely shoddy treatment for someone who has given so much to the franchise and has contributed so much to its success.

[Rachel500]

So, shameless self-promotion.

I have started on Season 2 of Aftershocks for those of you who have been following my series of TAGs. Yesterday I posted the Aftershock TAG for In the Line of Duty to fanfiction.net. For those of you interested in reading it, you can find it here:

Aftershocks: The Damaged Trilogy

If you really can't stand it in the fanfiction format, GW is still broken but I will be posting it to my stargatesg1 site over the weekend.

Oh, and Sam is a great character.

[ShimmeringStar]

You'll have to forgive me if this appears rude, but it's been a really bad week and I'm going on my sixth day with little sleep so my patience level is really low...but here goes.

I know you are a die hard shipper Sal, but in my opinion, you and many others like yourself are barking up the wrong tree. Does anyone truly believe that Amanda has any control at all over what is written regarding Sam? Did anyone bother to read her comments regarding the lack of development in her character over the past few years? Don't you think if she had any control over the whole ship issue that she would have either a) resolved it or b) ended it a l-o-n-g time ago? Maybe she has such negative viewpoints about ship because after a decade of the tap dance she's as exhausted by the "will they or won't they" situation as everyone else. I mean what do people expect to accomplish by these questions? If she says 'yes I hope Sam & Jack get married and Sam has a baby in the off-season', what will that accomplish? I doesn't mean it will happen. It only means that is her opinion on the subject. So why does it bother so many people if her opinion is different than their own. Is she suppose to be a huge shipper simply because it's an aspect of her job. I seriously doubt there is anyone on this thread who enjoys every aspect of their job. I'm sure there are one or two things that everyone wishes they could change, so why should Amanda be any different. Regardless of how she may or may not feel about Sam & Jack, portraying Sam in this relationship with Jack is simply a part of her job in which she has very little control.

I guess my irritation lies in the fact that I don't understand why people keep harping on the issue when it's obvious she really has no clue why it hasn't been resolved or if it ever willl be. If people want answers or if they want to see resolution then they really need to stop hounding Amanda and start talking/writing to the writers and producers of the show because they are the ones who could make it happen.

I, for one, feel extremely sorry for Amanda for being forced into this irritating situation for the past decade. I don't claim to know what she is thinking or how she feels about this subject, but I know as a fan who has read numerous interviews over the past few years as well as gone to numerous cons, I'm tired of the question and if I were Amanda I think I'd probably have started dreaming about strangling the next fan or journalist who asked me a question about Sam & Jack.

But then again, I feel the same way about several other hot topics as well.

Kat

Plus, to build on Kat's post - what does it matter if Amanda is tired of the questions or tired of the ship? (And I suspect soon she'll get sick of the co-command question too...)

I'm just happy that she's fine enough of an actress to have pulled off a chemistry with Rick that could make so many viewers and fans happy. You (I'm speaking the 'general you' here) could be no-romo, Sam/Jack shipper (*raises hand*), Sam/other shipper (*starts to raise hand*), and you still found the breadth there in her portrayal to believe in the relationship/friendship of your choice. I mean if AT likes it now, or even *use* to like it... cool, it's not that important, because I know what I thought I saw on screen and it brought *me* enjoyment...

Best RL analogy I can think of is think of a really good teacher - one of her in ratio to soooo many students over the years. If you enjoyed the experience and learned well from her, would it have mattered to learn years down the road that her opinions on politics or whatever were different than yours?

Or like for each of us in our RL jobs... we're trying to do our best in it as professionals - imagine if you were constantly hounded by your customers/colleagues/others demanding to know what your personal feelings were on the industry/product/service/regulations were of where you work. I know I want to be judged on my work/what I did/produced, not on what I personally thought of the situation. And because I work somewhere very bound by rules and regs, I can tell you there's times I'm totally not in agreement with what I have to do/say and it irks the hell out of me. But, my customers would never know that nor would most of my colleagues/staff except for the very few who I trust to vent to. And over time sometimes our feelings about what we're directed/forced to do can and will change - I can empathize with her about having a view/opinion from years past being thrown in one's face and not being allowed the opportunity to grow or move on... as well as being held to a way higher standard than every other human being...

Do most actors have control over their characters? No. (Not everyone is Rick... ) Hell, some actors really do hate their co-stars or storylines, and would we know it? No. Would it matter? No, because they've given us something wonderful to believe in, no matter how fleeting a time we get to share it. What matters is that you got some pleasure from it at some point.

Just some ramblings... Bottom line... Sam is still a great character and I'm grateful that Amanda was cast in the role and gave it her all for the past 10 years.

(((Amanda))) (((Samandans)))

[scarimor]

Hey! It's not that often I get a request


Sam: Okay Teal'c, stay close behind me, and remember the word is stealth.


Teal'c: But Col. Carter, are you sure this is necessary?
Sam: Only if you really want to get your hands on those little items.


Sam: Hey! I thought it was Gen. O'Neill's donuts you wanted to grab!

Definitely should make requests of you more often, Mandy!

Sam: Just a little lower and to the right. *blissful shudder* Oooh yeah. That's it.

hehehehee!

[hopes being chuffed is a good thing]

Indeed it is.

wow. how did you 3-D it? it's cool!
sally

Thank you I just selected the background and gave it a good blur.

Some more Sam icons I made today (and a variation on the pink RepliCarter one):

[NZNeep]

scarimor, I love those icons! My favourite is the dimples one... I used to get teased for mine, but now I love them because they give away when I'm being cheeky.

[chocdoc]

Just some ramblings... Bottom line... Sam is still a great character and I'm grateful that Amanda was cast in the role and gave it her all for the past 10 years.

(((Amanda))) (((Samandans)))

This is the bottom line for me too. AT has brought an enormous amount of enjoyment to many many people through her portrayal of Sam Carter over the years. What is neat to me is that Sam Carter has touched many different people for different reasons. I love this character because of her strength, wisdom, and competence as a soldier--a high ranking soldier--and because of her wisdom, competence, and brilliance as a scientist. That alone is of great importance to me because you don't see these types of female characters in shows that often. Others may focus more on her personal side with Jack, while others may have combinations of all the things they like and admire about Sam Carter. All is good.

AT has also brought a lot of people together that may not have ever known each other through threads like this , but also I've seen AT communities in other places. If I were AT, I would focus on all the joy, inspiration, and community that Sam Carter has fostered over the years.

Sometimes I get angry and sad when I think of the enormous amount of lost opportunties for Sam in seasons 9 and 10 so far. It is difficult to even think about because there was so much for TPTB to capitalize on with Sam in these last two seasons as Sally and others have outlined, yet they didn't even come close to writing Sam in the way I think she and AT deserve. Pushing Sam into the background in these last two seasons has been a disaster for the show and, for me, is one of the major reasons why the show has gone downhill and lost a good portion of their audience.

On the other hand, I am very grateful that AT/Sam was given such great characterization for sooo many years. We have seen such great storylines and moments for Sam Carter with other wonderful characters such as Janet, Jacob, Martouf, and Mckay--and of course with the rest of the team. To feel better, I just look at the first eight seasons now----that is SG-1 for me. I have no interest in season 9, and I only have a slight interest in the remaining second half of season 10 to watch Carter.

I think AT has been very consistent about her thoughts and feelings regarding season 9 and now season 10 in terms of how Sam was being treated. She says it with such grace, doesn't she? She finds the good in a not so good situation for her these last two seasons and she is grateful for ALL the great opportunities that she has had in playing Sam Carter over the years. That's how I feel. No matter that these last two seasons suck in my opinion, I still have the first eight seasons where AT got to act her heart out with the rest of the cast. She was treated well for most of SG-1's existence.

And even though Sam has not been treated as well as she should have been these last two seasons, I'm glad AT came back to the show for the last two seasons, if only so I could see Carter a few more times. But most importantly, I'm glad AT came back because I think she DESERVED to be a part of all the celebrations of the overall success of SG-1. She and the other original stars made the show a success and they all deserved to be celebrating together a very successful run overall.

Now I can't wait for AT to have other opportunities -- I keep wondering what the heck this new project is --if it were a movie, wouldn't she just say so? I would love to see her in another series. She has been the female lead of a very successful series---now I'd like to see her as the lead in another series.

I also hope that Sam is very key character in the time travel movie in the works, and I also hope that Sam gets to visit Atlantis once in awhile next year. I think they like having Amanda over at Atlantis. This is all of course if this is what AT wants. AT sounds like she is not ready to give up playing Carter just yet. Yeah for us Sam fans.

[chocdoc]

Definitely should make requests of you more often, Mandy!


hehehehee!


Indeed it is.


Thank you I just selected the background and gave it a good blur.

Some more Sam icons I made today (and a variation on the pink RepliCarter one):

Nice!!!!

[Coley]

This is the bottom line for me too. AT has brought an enormous amount of enjoyment to many many people through her portrayal of Sam Carter over the years. What is neat to me is that Sam Carter has touched many different people for different reasons. I love this character because of her strength, wisdom, and competence as a soldier--a high ranking soldier--and because of her wisdom, competence, and brilliance as a scientist. That alone is of great importance to me because you don't see these types of female characters in shows that often. Others may focus more on her personal side with Jack, while others may have combinations of all the things they like and admire about Sam Carter. All is good.

AT has also brought a lot of people together that may not have ever known each other through threads like this , but also I've seen AT communities in other places. If I were AT, I would focus on all the joy, inspiration, and community that Sam Carter has fostered over the years.

Sometimes I get angry and sad when I think of the enormous amount of lost opportunties for Sam in seasons 9 and 10 so far. It is difficult to even think about because there was so much for TPTB to capitalize on with Sam in these last two seasons as Sally and others have outlined, yet they didn't even come close to writing Sam in the way I think she and AT deserve. Pushing Sam into the background in these last two seasons has been a disaster for the show and, for me, is one of the major reasons why the show has gone downhill and lost a good portion of their audience.

On the other hand, I am very grateful that AT/Sam was given such great characterization for sooo many years. We have seen such great storylines and moments for Sam Carter with other wonderful characters such as Janet, Jacob, Martouf, and Mckay--and of course with the rest of the team. To feel better, I just look at the first eight seasons now----that is SG-1 for me. I have no interest in season 9, and I only have a slight interest in the remaining second half of season 10 to watch Carter.

I think AT has been very consistent about her thoughts and feelings regarding season 9 and now season 10 in terms of how Sam was being treated. She says it with such grace, doesn't she? She finds the good in a not so good situation for her these last two seasons and she is grateful for ALL the great opportunities that she has had in playing Sam Carter over the years. That's how I feel. No matter that these last two seasons suck in my opinion, I still have the first eight seasons where AT got to act her heart out with the rest of the cast. She was treated well for most of SG-1's existence.

And even though Sam has not been treated as well as she should have been these last two seasons, I'm glad AT came back to the show for the last two seasons, if only so I could see Carter a few more times. But most importantly, I'm glad AT came back because I think she DESERVED to be a part of all the celebrations of the overall success of SG-1. She and the other original stars made the show a success and they all deserved to be celebrating together a very successful run overall.

Now I can't wait for AT to have other opportunities -- I keep wondering what the heck this new project is --if it were a movie, wouldn't she just say so? I would love to see her in another series. She has been the female lead of a very successful series---now I'd like to see her as the lead in another series.

I also hope that Sam is very key character in the time travel movie in the works, and I also hope that Sam gets to visit Atlantis once in awhile next year. I think they like having Amanda over at Atlantis. This is all of course if this is what AT wants. AT sounds like she is not ready to give up playing Carter just yet. Yeah for us Sam fans.

Thanks for this fantastic post chocdoc. I couldn't have put it better myself. I'm sure Amanda is disappointed with the way Sam's character hasn't developed the last 2 seasons, but I think her overriding thoughts are that - as an actor she is still lucky to be part of, and play such a fantastic role in, a successful sci fi show and be surrounded by a great bunch of people to work with - I think that is the message I have from the recent interviews she has given. I hope she find that sort of enjoyment and professional fulfilment in any future role/s that pass her way.

[scarimor]

scarimor, I love those icons! My favourite is the dimples one... I used to get teased for mine, but now I love them because they give away when I'm being cheeky.

Thank you And treasure your dimples.

Three more Sam icons from this afternoon:

and my personal favourite of today's batch:

Spoiler: