Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[majorsal]

Of course, since the beginning of S9, she's been used more as a supporting character to the overall storylines rather than being provided with one of her own. I also agree with Sky that I think TPTB seemed to struggle with what to do with Sam once there wasn't a Jack because in their eyes it seems the character had become completely synonymous with only that one storyline - extremely frustrating for any actress playing a regular part.

no, they *gave* her storylines away. or dropped them. or ignored them.

former host abilities: vala's now.

leading sg1: mitchell's now.

dad's dead.

cassie is ignored.

replicarter either ignored or dead.

best friend janet is dead.

her brother and family ignored.



she's a scientist and soldier only now, none of which really *focus* on her. and even if they gave her storylines away (two biggies), they could have, you know, written something NEW for her.

*takes deep breath*

and this is why i'm glad this is all coming to an end. i really don't feel like sg1 was cancelled this season, but in season 9. my sg1 died in season 9.





sally

[majorsal]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I totally agree with ya that the various aspects of Sam - and how AT plays her at different times - are interesting and important. It's unfortunate if she's been given the impression that that's all that people care about, though.

see, one of the things about dragging out a storyline or issue is, if it's not resolved, it actually builds tention and interest. might not be on the positive tention and interest side, but as long as the s/j issue isn't resolved fully and unambiguously, the subject is going to be brought up over and over to amanda. it's like an open door that you can't ignore. and it's waaaaay past being dropped (it would nullify 8 seasons of a character path), but it really, REALLY needs to be dealt with.

Ship/Angst tugs at the heart strings and all that, but if they don't do anything concrete with it (which they haven't), they end up leaving the character in this really twisted from of limbo. And as flexible as AT seems to be, I'd imagine that's pretty annoying (same with MS' questions about Daniel's sexuality and whatnot).

exactly. having sam AND jack staying in the same type of relationship limbo is not only very unrealistic, but extremely irritating.

don't worry, i'm going to the shipper thread soon.




sally

[Uber]

in what season? the two seasons where sam's love life was the most focused on (s7 and 8), we had space race, avenger 2.0, grace, death knell, heroes, and lost city. and in season 8, we had new order, avatar, covenant, gemini, it's good to be king, reckoning, and moebius. i listed eps where good stuff happened for sam that wasn't only ship related. so where was this ignoring stuff?

now, starting in season 9, where NO s/j ship was shown... and she was given nothing to do. there's the ignoring, which can't be blaimed on s/j ship because it wasn't there. and when it was there, it didn't suck the rest of sam's storylines out the window, the ptb did that. sam's other storylines were either ignored, dropped, or given to other characters. again, can't be blaimed on ship. season 10 improved sam's lot on the show, but she's still not getting the depth or storylines of seasons past. still ship's fault? and if someone says that sam has nothing to do because they took jack away, that's BS to the fullest.





sally

Here's my personal take on the whole Amanda/Sam/ship debate.

I think Amanda gets sick to freakin' death of being asked about Sam and Jack. I think she gets to a point where every once in awhile, she wants people to just stop asking about this one topic. Please. She'd never say it directly...she's conscious of how important the issue is to some of her fans and is too gracious to tell them to stuff it...but every so often you can feel an edginess to her answers about ship that communicate her intermittent irritation. Then there are times when she just doesn't know what should happen and honestly communicates that sentiment as well.

Don't get me wrong now. I am a shipper and want to see an onscreen resolve of some sort for those two. I think with all they did in Seasons 7 and 8, to not do so would be detrimental to her character's story arc...just as much as it would be if they simply ignored that she led the team for a year or if they summarily demoted her by taking her command away with no controversy, friction or conflict. (Hmm...that last part sounds familiar).

Not to say that I think ship is more important than the other aspects that make up who she is, but it is as essential because it's a journey she went on and learned a lot about herself...learned what she wanted and what she didn't want. That's important character growth any way you look at it, even if the execution might not have been as shiny as some people would have preferred.

But while it is as essential as her other personality/character traits, this does not translate as meaning "requires as much screentime as her other personality/character traits." It needs to be addressed but not focused upon as an A story...or even a B story for that matter.

The key for me I think is balance...focusing on her more prominent/dominant traits that portray why she is on SG-1, what she contributes to the show and to the team...while giving nods every now and then to her extra personality flavors and seasonings. The little taste of that other side of her so much time was spent on a couple of years back and then almost completely ignored.

Sam the officer/fighter/scientist/leader doesn't need ship to function or to have value as either a leading character or as a member of the team. Sam the character needs the offsetting balance that acknowledging the personal journey she took affords.

All work and no play makes Sam one dimensional and for me at least is just as out of balance as only showing her personal side; and I like my Carter to be multi-dimensional and beautifully layered with beaucoup substance and pathos.

Again...for me, it's all about balance.

[suse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suse
Speaking of Avalon and AT2 could someone see if there is an address we can send fan mail? As Bridge is no longer SG-1's home. (And don't they return mail over hiatus?)

Suse

what do you mean bridge in no longer sg1's home? since when can't we send fan mail to this address?


sally

Someone on one of the threads said that they had sent a package to Bridge over last hiatus and it was eventually returned to them with the reason they don't accept maill over hiatus.

SG-1 is finished filming. I assume they will film the 2 movies there but as yet no contracts have been signed (unless it's a secret). So Bridge (right now) has no SG-1 there.

I was just wondering if there is an alternate address that won't take (MGMs) 2 years. I'm not saying ask her in public. Just put a bug in someones ear. Perhaps I'll ask Kamil at amandatapping.com

Suse
Not that I'm stalking AT. I just left the "It's been real" letter too late.

[majorsal]

Someone on one of the threads said that they had sent a package to Bridge over last hiatus and it was eventually returned to them with the reason they don't accept maill over hiatus.

SG-1 is finished filming. I assume they will film the 2 movies there but as yet no contracts have been signed (unless it's a secret). So Bridge (right now) has no SG-1 there.

I was just wondering if there is an alternate address that won't take (MGMs) 2 years. I'm not saying ask her in public. Just put a bug in someones ear. Perhaps I'll ask Kamil at amandatapping.com

Suse
Not that I'm stalking AT. I just left the "It's been real" letter too late.

thanks for the info, suse.

i send postcards to the ptb at bridge studios. i wonder what happens to them during hiatis? and like you, am i supposed to be sending them somewhere else?




sally

[DEM]

there should be no lovelorn sam, just sam in love and happy. and yes, with JACK. what was 8 years of angst worth if not to bring them together? and even though sam AND jack were angsting for one another, sam remained a great character.

you know... i was thinking about this last night, but... i really want to know why amanda sees her character differently than some fans.

My immediate reaction to that was why do some fans see it differently than AT (and other fans). That is just as valid a question, is it not?

For example, IMO, it was NOT 8 years of angst: It was bits of S4, S7, and S8. For we noromos and anti-shippers the question is more like "When are they going to stop dropping S/J on us at random intervals?" Likewise, I rarely saw it as 2-sided angst. For the most part, especially in the latter seasons, it was: 1) the writers wrote stuff, 2) someone had to sell it, 3) AT was that person. This imbalance shows up in fan discussions. I could be wrong here (having not actually read ship discussions in a ship thread), but it seems to me that most of the ship-related questions and speculation (in the non-ship threads) center around Carter's arc, not O'Neill's.

Finally, I agree with Rachel500's interpretation that once the writers got stuck in their 'Sam as half of J/S' rut they had trouble digging themselves out of it. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of revision has happened with an SG-1 character.

So all of that is to say that I can see where AT is coming from. J/S has dominated her character far out of proportion to what Carter is really about.

[suse]

My immediate reaction to that was why do some fans see it differently than AT (and other fans). That is just as valid a question, is it not?

For example, IMO, it was NOT 8 years of angst: It was bits of S4, S7, and S8. For we noromos and anti-shippers the question is more like "When are they going to stop dropping S/J on us at random intervals?" Likewise, I rarely saw it as 2-sided angst. For the most part, especially in the latter seasons, it was: 1) the writers wrote stuff, 2) someone had to sell it, 3) AT was that person. This imbalance shows up in fan discussions. I could be wrong here (having not actually read ship discussions in a ship thread), but it seems to me that most of the ship-related questions and speculation (in the non-ship threads) center around Carter's arc, not O'Neill's.

Finally, I agree with Rachel500's interpretation that once the writers got stuck in their 'Sam as half of J/S' rut they had trouble digging themselves out of it. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of revision has happened with an SG-1 character.

So all of that is to say that I can see where AT is coming from. J/S has dominated her character far out of proportion to what Carter is really about.

And that's really too bad. Especially if the writers got stuck in that (S/J) mindset. They created and wrote Sam to be much more than that. I don't care if ithere is a piece of Sam that is ship but ship should never be the primary identifier.

I think I agree with Sky regarding the way women are treated on Stargate now. And add to it I tstill think they bit off more than they could chew when they decided to do 40 eps (SG-1 and Atlantis) with almost no growth in the writing department no one added to the circle of brothers that comprise the Bridge PTB. I can't believe MGM didn't see burnout and cut corners in the future. <sigh>

Suse

[majorsal]

here's a thought that just popped into my head.

pick one episode where you'd like or love to trade places with sam. (this isn't an easy question, because would *you* want to live through this experience?)

i'll try to answer this...


i think i'd pick 'grace', though i might change my mind upon reading others views.

i thought it was neat that sam experienced this all alone, even though her friends 'helped' her in mind only. i also liked the aliens, and the possibilities of who they might be. i also loved that KISS , but it's sam's self discovery that i thought would have been an incredible experience to have. she was the total hero, but doing it disabled. that's my sam.




sally

[Uber]

My immediate reaction to that was why do some fans see it differently than AT (and other fans). That is just as valid a question, is it not?

For example, IMO, it was NOT 8 years of angst: It was bits of S4, S7, and S8. For we noromos and anti-shippers the question is more like "When are they going to stop dropping S/J on us at random intervals?" Likewise, I rarely saw it as 2-sided angst. For the most part, especially in the latter seasons, it was: 1) the writers wrote stuff, 2) someone had to sell it, 3) AT was that person. This imbalance shows up in fan discussions. I could be wrong here (having not actually read ship discussions in a ship thread), but it seems to me that most of the ship-related questions and speculation (in the non-ship threads) center around Carter's arc, not O'Neill's.

Finally, I agree with Rachel500's interpretation that once the writers got stuck in their 'Sam as half of J/S' rut they had trouble digging themselves out of it. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of revision has happened with an SG-1 character.

So all of that is to say that I can see where AT is coming from. J/S has dominated her character far out of proportion to what Carter is really about.

BINGO.

They never made up their minds about ship so the writing of it and the lack of writing of it seemed so uneven. Some of it I can fanwank away but other bits were simply sloppily done IMHO.

By the way, what you described here is what I'd call a distinct lack of balance with regard to writing Carter's story arcs. Unlike you, I didn't mind delving more into her psyche and seeing some of her emotional flaws and quirks...I just wasn't thrilled with the notion of that being her only story. I never thought it was her only story by the way...but you know, to have a PTB tell Amanda they didn't know what to do with her character only works to confirm this possibility...something I believe would have to be her worst fear as an actress...that she really is just the girl in the kinda-sorta relationship with the hero; and that without that hero present, she serves no purpose whatsoever.

Like Amanda and so many of us here have said, Sam is OH so much more than the other half of Jack'n'Sam. She's blown up a sun! She's killed gods! She's diverted blackholes! She's a hero and a leader! She's funny and snarky! She's brilliant and quirky! Just a fantastic character.

The pendulum swung so far towards her personal life that they forgot about who she really is. And that happens in reality too. Sometimes a personal struggle or conflict overrides all else and becomes all encompassing. FOR A TIME. But then, once a crisis passes and the dust settles, the rest of who someone is or contributes doesn't just vanish or become unknowable.

Lack of balance. The theme for Season 9. That and missed opportunities.

That season never meshed for me...and I totally agree with Amanda about how that turned out. She didn't say this in so many words, but I think one of the biggest failings of the season was that the writers/PTB seemed to try to turn Carter into just a supporting character...someone simply there to move the plot and deliver lines. And while that's true of everyone every once in a while, permanently placing her in that role simply lacked both logic and a sense of cohesion with her character's past and her natural place on the team.

Ignoring the major events of her life in the past year and a half also threw things off for me. The throwaway lines about Cassie and Pete and the "Not exactly" and little to no mention of Janet, zero acknowledgement of her father's death, no dealing with her no longer leading the team or the hows and whys of what happened to make that so, rewriting canon for a joke like they did with Martouf and Orlin and completely and totally ignoring Jack O'Neill and his importance to Sam and the others (and here I mean beyond the ship debate...but that TOO dagnabbit)...*mutters under breath* Do you realize that there was not even ONE scene with Sam and Jack last year? Or Jack and Teal'c? That's just a nightmare for me personally.

Like I said though, Season 9 will always and forever be just a complete disaster area of imbalance and missed and lost opportunities for Sam and the show. It also heralds what is one of the biggest slaps in the face I've ever seen with regard to both the unbelievably clumsy and inglorious manner in which one of the characters that made them the success that they were was written back in (and essentially treated as a glorified extra) as well as the astonishingly shoddy treatment of someone who has given 110% to supporting and promoting the franchise.

Wow. I'm talkative tonight. I've got a cold so I hope I'm making sense. Perhaps it'd be best if I went and took my NyQuil and left you all in peace for the evening.

[Gate gal]

Maybe even has a bit of a countdown in her head (1st question down, 2nd question down, 3rd question... wait for it...).

LOL, I can see that possibility! It is amazing that Sam can save the planet and galaxy numerous times, rig ancient technology to a Dell computer and make it work, and blow up a sun; but all the reporters want to ask Amanda is when Sam is going to get together with Jack. I am a die hard shipper, but I wouldn't ask Amanda even one ship question if I got the chance to meet her. Sam is so much more than just 1/2 of a ship.

I actually had this type of discussion with my husband last night after Smallville.
(Smallville and SG1 spoilers, but relates to the ship concern. Fellow shippers you may not agree with me. Sorry in advance.)

Spoiler:

Smallville was a great scifi show until Clark and Lana finally got together, and this season it is really all about who's hookin up with who! I'm sure Amanda has some concerns about this type of trend entering SG1, and let's face it it could happen. Just look at Vala and Daniel, Vala and Cam, Vala and Teal'c..... Amanda's concerns are valid. Sam should never be that type of character. But, as a shipper I do feel that TPTB started a ship and they shouldn't leave it unresolved. I just hope they do it in a way where Sam's character is respected. It really should just be an acknowledgement that the two are together then let them kick some butt in the movie. Sam and Jack could split off into a pair. (It's better than her having to go off by herself again.)

Sorry, I'm rambling again.

[majorsal]

My immediate reaction to that was why do some fans see it differently than AT (and other fans). That is just as valid a question, is it not?

it is. i can only answer for 'myself', not all shippers (of course).

i'm not an actor, i'm not working on this show, but i'm seeing it as a fan that greatly enjoys seeing romance played out on a show. this specific romance. along with all the other character traits about sam. something i find interesting/ is that with ship, it's the only character trait that fans have to answer for. it's like, 'oh yeah, i like it, BUT I LIKE OTHER ASPECTS TOO!'. i don't see fans that like military sam having to explain that it's not the only aspect they enjoy. and i see ship fans of all types having to do this (just read the almost apologetic posts from daniel/vala shippers)

For example, IMO, it was NOT 8 years of angst: It was bits of S4, S7, and S8. For we noromos and anti-shippers the question is more like "When are they going to stop dropping S/J on us at random intervals?"

s/j was/is a storyline.

Likewise, I rarely saw it as 2-sided angst. For the most part, especially in the latter seasons, it was: 1) the writers wrote stuff, 2) someone had to sell it, 3) AT was that person. This imbalance shows up in fan discussions. I could be wrong here (having not actually read ship discussions in a ship thread), but it seems to me that most of the ship-related questions and speculation (in the non-ship threads) center around Carter's arc, not O'Neill's.

true, it showed more from sam's pov in the later years, but unless you want me to list all of jack's angst/ship... let's just say, i could give you a LARGE list of jack's shipping.

Finally, I agree with Rachel500's interpretation that once the writers got stuck in their 'Sam as half of J/S' rut they had trouble digging themselves out of it. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of revision has happened with an SG-1 character.

and there was no reason for this to happen. first off, i don't blaim jack being gone, so there's nothing left for sam excuse, i blaim the writers dropping sam's other storylines and not giving her anything new to play with. *they* did this, for whatever reasons. the writers obviously were still interested in the former host-leader of sg1 storylines, they just slid them over to their new characters for some reason.

if the writers wanted to drop the s/j storyline, sam had plenty of other storylines to play with. or used to...

So all of that is to say that I can see where AT is coming from. J/S has dominated her character far out of proportion to what Carter is really about.

i just don't feel that, dem. i saw two seasons of that particular arc being played out for a very specific reason, and even then, it wasn't every single episode. and they didn't pair sam and jack off together everytime, like they have with daniel and vala (whether you see d/v as ship or just characters interacting).

ship's an explosive topic, only because the ppl get explosive.





sally

[Gate gal]

here's a thought that just popped into my head.

pick one episode where you'd like or love to trade places with sam. (this isn't an easy question, because would *you* want to live through this experience?)

sally

Oh, that is a hard one! There are lots of episodes I'd love to be Sam at the end of but having to live though some of those experiences would be pretty rough! I guess I'm going to have to say Hathor. I love the way she and Janet organized the other women (and Teal'c) in taking back the base. It was really the first time we got to see Sam in command, and she did it well.

[ForeverSg1]

there should be no lovelorn sam, just sam in love and happy. and yes, with JACK. what was 8 years of angst worth if not to bring them together? and even though sam AND jack were angsting for one another, sam remained a great character.

you know... i was thinking about this last night, but... i really want to know why amanda sees her character differently than some fans. amanda's been saying for years that she doesn't want sam pining for jack (or some unrequited love thing), but i've seen a two sided love story going on. what am i missing? and with 'threads', it gave me the impression that they were ready to finally embark on a relationship. so why hasn't this happened yet? heck, i think even amanda thought the ship was going somewhere (when she said, 'either get it on or walk away'). well, it should have 'gotten on'

if i were going to at2 or avalon, i'd let amanda know i'm still interested in that aspect of her character (s/j), and i'd ask her why she thinks nothing has progressed?.normal ppl 'would' progress, especially with the way sam and jack's feelings were shown. it wasn't a flash in the pan, but real and deep feelings. i just don't get this, but i guess this fits in what all the other stuff i don't get about this show.

sally

You'll have to forgive me if this appears rude, but it's been a really bad week and I'm going on my sixth day with little sleep so my patience level is really low...but here goes.

I know you are a die hard shipper Sal, but in my opinion, you and many others like yourself are barking up the wrong tree. Does anyone truly believe that Amanda has any control at all over what is written regarding Sam? Did anyone bother to read her comments regarding the lack of development in her character over the past few years? Don't you think if she had any control over the whole ship issue that she would have either a) resolved it or b) ended it a l-o-n-g time ago? Maybe she has such negative viewpoints about ship because after a decade of the tap dance she's as exhausted by the "will they or won't they" situation as everyone else. I mean what do people expect to accomplish by these questions? If she says 'yes I hope Sam & Jack get married and Sam has a baby in the off-season', what will that accomplish? I doesn't mean it will happen. It only means that is her opinion on the subject. So why does it bother so many people if her opinion is different than their own. Is she suppose to be a huge shipper simply because it's an aspect of her job. I seriously doubt there is anyone on this thread who enjoys every aspect of their job. I'm sure there are one or two things that everyone wishes they could change, so why should Amanda be any different. Regardless of how she may or may not feel about Sam & Jack, portraying Sam in this relationship with Jack is simply a part of her job in which she has very little control.

I guess my irritation lies in the fact that I don't understand why people keep harping on the issue when it's obvious she really has no clue why it hasn't been resolved or if it ever willl be. If people want answers or if they want to see resolution then they really need to stop hounding Amanda and start talking/writing to the writers and producers of the show because they are the ones who could make it happen.

I, for one, feel extremely sorry for Amanda for being forced into this irritating situation for the past decade. I don't claim to know what she is thinking or how she feels about this subject, but I know as a fan who has read numerous interviews over the past few years as well as gone to numerous cons, I'm tired of the question and if I were Amanda I think I'd probably have started dreaming about strangling the next fan or journalist who asked me a question about Sam & Jack.

But then again, I feel the same way about several other hot topics as well.

Kat

[Agent_Dark]

Amen Kat.

[tsaxlady]

Ditto - 'nuff said