Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[L.A. Doyle]

as to the weeping

Spoiler:

i've been in a situation where someone dies. and i can control my emotions...but then someone says something, asks me something, brings the topic up, and the grief and i lose it

that's how i see sam reacting. she was ok compartmentalizing emmerson's death. until marks asked 'where is the colonel' and then it hit her and she knew she'd have to break the news

I can sorta relate...

Spoiler:

I for one hardly ever cry, like ever. But something had happened, not a death, thank goodness, but it was still something that really upset me. I was angry about the situation until my mother asked me about it, and then I did start crying. I remember thinking to myself, I'm not going to cry...but I did. I just couldn't help it. I imagine that's sorta what happened to Sam. She was definitely more upset than I was at that point in time, so she had every right and reason to let it show, even if she didn't want to.

[Deejay435]

I know what you all are thinking. When oh when will Mary Beth share her Ooooobery thoughts with regard to "that moment" in Company of Thieves???

Well, wait no longer my friends!!!

Spoiler:

I'm moderately amused by the notion that Sam was acting out of character here because canonly, Sam has reacted to moments of loss and frustration with tears as necessary. Frankly, had she NOT responded with some sort of emotional expression, that would have been extremely out of character. But let's take a moment and look at what happened leading up it, okay?

Recapping...she was wonked on the head and was a little woozy, waking up long after everyone else had. Moments after returning to consciousness, she's dragged up onto the bridge with Emerson and told to turn the transponder off. She holds her ground as best she can and then watches in horror as Emerson is murdered. Thoroughly.

Here's my theory as to what happened between Emerson's death and her return to the hold. Avateo I'll bet ensured that Emerson's corpse stayed put and in her line of sight to reinforce how serious he was about getting what he wanted. I'll also bet he made a few less than subtle references about what he'd like to be doing to her, although I don't believe he raped her or roughed her up. He was going for psychological trauma...mind game stuff...because he needed to focus on his situation with the Lucian Alliance. I also wonder that with this mindgame he was trying to play that perhaps he had Sam take care of the body, further emphasizing what would happen to the rest of the crew or to her should she betray him.

So, Sam worked through grit teeth to get the transponder out, probably willing herself not to look over at Emerson but still knowing he was right there next to her all the while being forced to listen to Avateo make his overtures. Or rather half-listening. Her mind was probably already working on her plan, because she knew that without a transponder, there'd be no way for the SGC to find them.

She returns to the hold a few hours later and goes off to a corner for a moment. My sense was that she put up a good front while she was gone but then it all came crashing in on her and she needed a few seconds to deal. She didn't stand up in front of everyone and bawl. She didn't whimper and weep throughout the entire episode. She wordlessly answers Marks' question about Emerson and then took a moment to vent her sadness and rage so she could compose herself and do what she had to do. The entire crew's lives were at stake.

But then, this is what she does...she compartmentalizes. She's human and although she's experienced war and loss, she still feels. And that's a good thing. I don't want her to get to a point where she's so hardened by her experiences that she no longer feels. A friend and colleague was senselessly murdered in front of her face and she gave herself a moment to feel it so she could move on and do what had to be done.

Avateo's plan failed. He didn't win the mindgame...Sam did. Except for the moment she took to vent her sadness and anger, she was fully collected and fully in charge. She formulated the plan to free Daniel and Vala...well actually she didn't formulate it specifically for them as they weren't there but rather for someone...anyone to take advantage of the opportunity she presented (she knew she couldn't do it herself because she was a high value hostage with guards on her at all times). She defied Avateo and continued her work, always stalling to give the others a chance to do their thing.

Avateo realizes what she's done and yet again, the barrel of a gun is pointed at her head. And yet again, she is calm, cool and collected.

So my point is that I have no problem with Sam taking a moment to decompress. It's not like she could go to her private room and do it...she was thrust in with the others in the hold and she sought out a moment of privacy for herself to vent what she pent up for the last few hours so she could do what she does best...and that is be the heroine that she always is.

An excellent summation of how I saw the situation playing out. I think Sam did a fantastic job and holding it together throughout the episode. Even Cameron and Teal'c winced and flinched, and all they heard was the gunshot. Sam had it all play out in front of her in living color.

You are wrong about one thing, though. I've been waiting for Oooober to share her Mary Bethery thoughts about this scene. Yes indeedy.

[Deejay435]

Spoiler:

and then have -from the anti sam peeps- that she's out of control and acts like a newbie?

{snip}

sam wasn't weeping; she was shedding a tear or two for a fellow officer that had been murdered in front of her. and, it happened because this officer had ordered her not to cooperate. i'd expect some guilt about that.

{More snip}

I agree Sally.

Meandering thoughts about life in general vis-?*-vis SG1 here:

Spoiler:

I asked if we'd be having this discussion if Sam had...oh, Dem, what did I say? Unthinkingly hit a wall? Something like that. I want to be clear, however, that I wasn't suggesting that would have been a preferable reaction.

Far from it.

Uselessly! That's what I said, right? (I should look it up, I'm so lazy tonight.) Anyway-I think hitting a wall in such an obvious display of anger would show more loss of control than shedding a tear or two. First, it's likely to cause injury, and possibly put at least her hand out of commission, and second, because it's a far more obvious and uncontrolled action. So I don't think that would have been a better response.

I just wonder if people would have accepted it more easily though, since it's more stereotypically a 'male' response, where shedding tears is more steroetypically a 'female' one.

Now-off to prepare for work tomorrow.

[ParadoxRealities]

as to the weeping

Spoiler:

i've been in a situation where someone dies. and i can control my emotions...but then someone says something, asks me something, brings the topic up, and the grief and i lose it

that's how i see sam reacting. she was ok compartmentalizing emmerson's death. until marks asked 'where is the colonel' and then it hit her and she knew she'd have to break the news

Spoiler:

i fully agree that she could have lost it. i know what it feels like, i know how it hits you, i just don't think it came across that way. and i think it's equally as possible for her to hold it together and tell the crew, and then be triggered by Mark's caring and loose it. note: by loose it i don't mean weep, hit a wall, sob, or whatever one wishes to envision it as, i mean shed those few tears that she did. so i'm left wondering why that didn't happen. i know it's possible that they just flipped a coin and ended up wit her loosing it before telling the crew, but i doubt it. regardless, i think it could have been better illustrated.

[Mandysg1]

I know what you all are thinking. When oh when will Mary Beth share her Ooooobery thoughts with regard to "that moment" in Company of Thieves???

Well, wait no longer my friends!!!

Spoiler:

I'm moderately amused by the notion that Sam was acting out of character here because canonly, Sam has reacted to moments of loss and frustration with tears as necessary. Frankly, had she NOT responded with some sort of emotional expression, that would have been extremely out of character. But let's take a moment and look at what happened leading up it, okay?

Recapping...she was wonked on the head and was a little woozy, waking up long after everyone else had. Moments after returning to consciousness, she's dragged up onto the bridge with Emerson and told to turn the transponder off. She holds her ground as best she can and then watches in horror as Emerson is murdered. Thoroughly.

Here's my theory as to what happened between Emerson's death and her return to the hold. Avateo I'll bet ensured that Emerson's corpse stayed put and in her line of sight to reinforce how serious he was about getting what he wanted. I'll also bet he made a few less than subtle references about what he'd like to be doing to her, although I don't believe he raped her or roughed her up. He was going for psychological trauma...mind game stuff...because he needed to focus on his situation with the Lucian Alliance. I also wonder that with this mindgame he was trying to play that perhaps he had Sam take care of the body, further emphasizing what would happen to the rest of the crew or to her should she betray him.

So, Sam worked through grit teeth to get the transponder out, probably willing herself not to look over at Emerson but still knowing he was right there next to her all the while being forced to listen to Avateo make his overtures. Or rather half-listening. Her mind was probably already working on her plan, because she knew that without a transponder, there'd be no way for the SGC to find them.

She returns to the hold a few hours later and goes off to a corner for a moment. My sense was that she put up a good front while she was gone but then it all came crashing in on her and she needed a few seconds to deal. She didn't stand up in front of everyone and bawl. She didn't whimper and weep throughout the entire episode. She wordlessly answers Marks' question about Emerson and then took a moment to vent her sadness and rage so she could compose herself and do what she had to do. The entire crew's lives were at stake.

But then, this is what she does...she compartmentalizes. She's human and although she's experienced war and loss, she still feels. And that's a good thing. I don't want her to get to a point where she's so hardened by her experiences that she no longer feels. A friend and colleague was senselessly murdered in front of her face and she gave herself a moment to feel it so she could move on and do what had to be done.

Avateo's plan failed. He didn't win the mindgame...Sam did. Except for the moment she took to vent her sadness and anger, she was fully collected and fully in charge. She formulated the plan to free Daniel and Vala...well actually she didn't formulate it specifically for them as they weren't there but rather for someone...anyone to take advantage of the opportunity she presented (she knew she couldn't do it herself because she was a high value hostage with guards on her at all times). She defied Avateo and continued her work, always stalling to give the others a chance to do their thing.

Avateo realizes what she's done and yet again, the barrel of a gun is pointed at her head. And yet again, she is calm, cool and collected.

So my point is that I have no problem with Sam taking a moment to decompress. It's not like she could go to her private room and do it...she was thrust in with the others in the hold and she sought out a moment of privacy for herself to vent what she pent up for the last few hours so she could do what she does best...and that is be the heroine that she always is.

*Looks at watch, taps foot* Well it took you long enough We've been waiting a looooong time

Phew, I thought you were going to take the whole page That was a nicely well thought out scenario, that actually makes sense

[suse]

i got an email for rda's website....

amanda and rick are going to be appearing together again (before avalon con, though)! it's in vancouver (leaves me out, besides the fact i have no money ), but someone here could still go!

link for rda page: http://rdanderson.com/

go to updates.



sally

Thunk! Oh my. That's the smirk that maked my insides melt. RDA....

And Amanda is hosting! She's keeping busy isn't she?

Suse

[jckfan55]

Re: Sam in CoT

Spoiler:

I was chatting with a friend over on LJ. I mentioned that, at first, I was put off by Sam's crying-though I most emphatically would not characterize one tear track down her face as "weeping"-but that within seconds it ceased bothering me. I couldn't really explain why.

This was her reasoning, and I thought it was very good. So I thought I would share.

I agree with my friend. I love Sam all the better for it, as well.

Yes. My view is that

Spoiler:

she was crying a bit over Emerson, but it wasn't like she was out of control. And I agree with those who said there needed to be *some* reaction to Emerson's death. Typically we see events through the eyes of SG1, so from that perspective it made sense that Sam's grief represented the crew's grief.
I think Sam's reaction was both anger and sadness. I don't think it lessens Sam for her to have moment of grief in the corner--something she'd been holding back. If that Major had just given her a minute, she'd have pulled herself together by then. Also, she was thinking of a plan to retake the ship etc, so she was hardly wallowing and useless. Just think of the criticism she'd have gotten if she was totally businesslike after his death. "Cold *****" or something like that.

Other episode point: I found Daniel more annoying than Vala or Cam in this episode. Overall, ok, but not great episode. The lowered expections helped again--I didn't think we'd see nearly as much Sam or teamwork as we did.

Overall, I thought AT did her usual good work with the scenes she was given.

[DEM]

Spoiler:

Uselessly! That's what I said, right?

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Spoiler:

Anyway-I think hitting a wall in such an obvious display of anger would show more loss of control than shedding a tear or two. <snip>
I just wonder if people would have accepted it more easily though, since it's more stereotypically a 'male' response, where shedding tears is more steroetypically a 'female' one.

I

Spoiler:

don't *think* I would have found that more acceptable than the WEEPING -- which is why I added that little heart-face aside to my 're-write' post. That's assuming we're leaving everything else the same. As best I can imagine it, that would have looked very OoC, more Mitchell-like.

Now-off to prepare for work tomorrow.

Yegads! You have to prepare?! I'm suddenly hit by an attack of guilt & shame. Should I be preparing too?

[Queen_Bee]

Company of Thieves: the "weeping scene"

Spoiler:

IMHO company of thieves was a little more blunt and cold then some of the other situations they have been in, i mean in most cases something lucky happens and there is an escape, the Lucian Alliance guy was kinda scary and just did whatever he wanted anyways..killing Emerson in front of her, i m sure would have an affect and then passes on to her a great deal of responsibility for a large crew, also she was alone and didnt know if there was a rescue

[Deejay435]

Ding ding ding ding ding!

I

Spoiler:

don't *think* I would have found that more acceptable than the WEEPING -- which is why I added that little heart-face aside to my 're-write' post. That's assuming we're leaving everything else the same. As best I can imagine it, that would have looked very OoC, more Mitchell-like.

Yegads! You have to prepare?! I'm suddenly hit by an attack of guilt & shame. Should I be preparing too?

1) Not Weeping!
2) See, I thought the little heart face just meant you adore me. My bad.
3) From my pov, I think had any of the characters reacted with the fist slamming thing, it would have been inappropriate. And had any of them reacted as Sam did, I would feel no different than I feel about Sam's tears. Sorry I mistook your post. Misunderstood? Yeah, that makes more sense than mistook.
4) Well, given I actually watched The Westing Game instead of doing anything, I'd say no guilt necessary.

[Uber]

*Looks at watch, taps foot* Well it took you long enough We've been waiting a looooong time

Phew, I thought you were going to take the whole page That was a nicely well thought out scenario, that actually makes sense

Holy buckets...IT MADE SENSE??!??? If that's true, then I need to rethink it a little.

Goodness knows, Sam is an emotive person but there are some things she prefers to experience in private. In Paradise Lost, she didn't run around crying publicly to garner sympathy, she went to the woman's locker room so she could allow herself time to process and mourn. After just losing Daniel, losing Jack just seemed so overwhelming. (Little did she know, she'd lose many more people close to her in the year or two ahead of her.) I think Teal'c being there for her in Paradise Lost helped her feel that she could be open with him in Heroes...but again, she didn't seek him out, she was in her lab by herself when he came to visit her to see how she was doing and offering his support by letting her give the speech he wrote.

She's not one for emotional outbursts to begin with...I'm sure she had a "Carter's don't cry" military mentality drilled into her from her youth...so you know when you see any kind of emotional display, it's because she has experienced or is currently experiencing something so overwhelming that should she not give the emotions their due and vent, she'd either explode from the strain of trying to hold it in or become a thoroughly hardened soldier who doesn't care when things go wrong.

I believe in this scenario, Sam would have loved to have the benefit of private quarters so that she could deal in private with the rage, shock and loss she experienced personally witnessing something so horrific. But that was not afforded her. Instead, she sought the relative privacy of the corner of the

Spoiler:

cargo hold to process the last few hours...the anger she felt. The guilt she probably experienced. Was there something she could have done to prevent Emerson dying? The horror she felt having his body right next to him as she worked to remove the transponder. The sadness at losing a friend so unexpectedly, viciously and unnecessarily. The knowledge that the lives of everyone on board were counting on her.

I watched this scene again to really see the wide range of emotions Amanda communicated in that scene. She's overwhelmed by the fury of emotions she was experiencing and her private moment is

Spoiler:

interrupted by Marks, who won't leave her alone when she wants to be.

She's furious. She's sad. All this and more in just a few seconds with 4 tears. What a fantastic actress.

I also started thinking about what this says about the Carter character. First, we learn that she's still a private person. She went over to the side for a moment alone.

Second, we learn that she still has a tender heart. With all the stuff she's seen and done over the last decade, it would be really easy for her to build up walls so high around her to protect her that she closed herself down emotionally. I'm sure that would make her "more efficient" as a soldier, but it would cost her bits of her soul in the process.

Third, while she may still have a heart, her emotions don't control her or rule over her decision-making. She experiences the emotions, gives herself a moment to process them, then moves on and does what she has to do.

Spoiler:

For the rest of the episode, we see her fully in charge. She formulates a plan...one that puts herself in grave danger on a few different levels: One, if she's caught, she would be killed...Two, if Vala and Daniel got out successfully and something went wrong with the beaming process, she could end up materializing in a bulkhead or outside. Later we see her in charge of getting the ship back and running and setting the priorities.

I might have missed the scene where she devolves into a puddle of tears and wails with gnashing of teeth that life's unfair and she doesn't know what to do and begs for someone else to take charge of things...but I doubt it.

The fourth thing we learn is that she knows she doesn't have anything to prove. That crew knows her and knows what she's capable of...she's proved her mettle time and time again and know she'll do everything she can to come through for them. They trust her instincts and leadership...neither of which are lessened because she took a moment to process what happened.

They also probably realize that it must have been bad if it shook her like that for a moment.

Spoiler:

She expressed nonverbally that Emerson was dead but I'll bet won't go into details with them exactly how he died...just that they killed him. In fact, I'll wager that all they'll get from her is that shake of the head indicating that he didn't make it.

But see, again, these people know her and trust her. In earlier seasons, I'd be willing to bet that she would have tried to act tougher to prove she could hack it. This Sam knows it's not necessary because she knows that they know and trust her and will not judge her because she needed to take a moment to decompress. This Sam isn't worried about needing to keep up appearances.

And again, it didn't do anything to lessen her or make her appear weak. In fact it showed how rich her character continues to be by allowing her to vent for a few seconds and then showing her taking charge.

[yunadax]

Morning all how was everyone's weekend?

I spent all day Saturday at our fire brigades open day, then spent the afternoon driving the firetanker down fire trails to see how they handled them.
Spent the REST of the weekend getting some decent Stargate watching done. Episodes of note were New Order, Redemption, Descent & the Jolinars Memories story arc. Great episodes all round!!

Cant wait till my season 2 and season 5 box sets arrive - gotta love Ebay

Cheers

Jules

[suse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chocdoc
On another note:

Just saw this at http://savestargatesg1.com/characters.php

This is for fans that are FOR AND NOT FOR saving stargate. It is a survey about favorite main characters, favorite recurring chars on both SG-1 and SGA, favorite enemies, etc.

I filled it out just to support Sam and other characters I like.

I fill out one too for the same reason, to support Sam and others. Strange that they asked about
Atlantis too.

ETA: I wish there was a comment section on that form to write my opinions about things.

Actually I had a question about this. I tend to overthink these surveys and I *hate* being misrepresented. How the heck and I supposed to rate the humor and the action? By what is on *now* or what is was like when I enjoyed the show? Is there a place later in the survey to differentiate this? Otherwise this survey is meaningless. It's just a character popularity survey if you can't rate what was different in the seasons that made you did/dislike certain things.

Take the humor (please). I loved it through S8. S9/S10 Not so much. How would I rate it? It's over a period of 10 years! How can things change/not change?

Do these questions make any sense at all?

BTW as soon as I get clarification I e-mailed the website (I'm sure they lurve me that this point. )I'll complete the survey. With Sam as an excellent character, naturally.

Suse

[Lida]

Just popping in to say a quick good bye, my plane leaves in the morning. I will, of course, give AT all your love and support, and will hopefully get some new info about what the future may hold for her and the rest of the crew.

I'm finally packed, but pooped already and I still need to shower and eat...I forgot to eat today. So why are all my clothes tight???? It's a SciFI conspiracy, I tell ya!.....

[Deejay435]

Holy buckets...IT MADE SENSE??!??? If that's true, then I need to rethink it a little.

Goodness knows, Sam is an emotive person but there are some things she prefers to experience in private. In Paradise Lost, she didn't run around crying publicly to garner sympathy, she went to the woman's locker room so she could allow herself time to process and mourn. After just losing Daniel, losing Jack just seemed so overwhelming. (Little did she know, she'd lose many more people close to her in the year or two ahead of her.) I think Teal'c being there for her in Paradise Lost helped her feel that she could be open with him in Heroes...but again, she didn't seek him out, she was in her lab by herself when he came to visit her to see how she was doing and offering his support by letting her give the speech he wrote.

She's not one for emotional outbursts to begin with...I'm sure she had a "Carter's don't cry" military mentality drilled into her from her youth...so you know when you see any kind of emotional display, it's because she has experienced or is currently experiencing something so overwhelming that should she not give the emotions their due and vent, she'd either explode from the strain of trying to hold it in or become a thoroughly hardened soldier who doesn't care when things go wrong.

I believe in this scenario, Sam would have loved to have the benefit of private quarters so that she could deal in private with the rage, shock and loss she experienced personally witnessing something so horrific. But that was not afforded her. Instead, she sought the relative privacy of the corner of the

Spoiler:

cargo hold to process the last few hours...the anger she felt. The guilt she probably experienced. Was there something she could have done to prevent Emerson dying? The horror she felt having his body right next to him as she worked to remove the transponder. The sadness at losing a friend so unexpectedly, viciously and unnecessarily. The knowledge that the lives of everyone on board were counting on her.

I watched this scene again to really see the wide range of emotions Amanda communicated in that scene. She's overwhelmed by the fury of emotions she was experiencing and her private moment is

Spoiler:

interrupted by Marks, who won't leave her alone when she wants to be.

She's furious. She's sad. All this and more in just a few seconds with 4 tears. What a fantastic actress.

I also started thinking about what this says about the Carter character. First, we learn that she's still a private person. She went over to the side for a moment alone.

Second, we learn that she still has a tender heart. With all the stuff she's seen and done over the last decade, it would be really easy for her to build up walls so high around her to protect her that she closed herself down emotionally. I'm sure that would make her "more efficient" as a soldier, but it would cost her bits of her soul in the process.

Third, while she may still have a heart, her emotions don't control her or rule over her decision-making. She experiences the emotions, gives herself a moment to process them, then moves on and does what she has to do.

Spoiler:

For the rest of the episode, we see her fully in charge. She formulates a plan...one that puts herself in grave danger on a few different levels: One, if she's caught, she would be killed...Two, if Vala and Daniel got out successfully and something went wrong with the beaming process, she could end up materializing in a bulkhead or outside. Later we see her in charge of getting the ship back and running and setting the priorities.

I might have missed the scene where she devolves into a puddle of tears and wails with gnashing of teeth that life's unfair and she doesn't know what to do and begs for someone else to take charge of things...but I doubt it.

The fourth thing we learn is that she knows she doesn't have anything to prove. That crew knows her and knows what she's capable of...she's proved her mettle time and time again and know she'll do everything she can to come through for them. They trust her instincts and leadership...neither of which are lessened because she took a moment to process what happened.

They also probably realize that it must have been bad if it shook her like that for a moment.

Spoiler:

She expressed nonverbally that Emerson was dead but I'll bet won't go into details with them exactly how he died...just that they killed him. In fact, I'll wager that all they'll get from her is that shake of the head indicating that he didn't make it.

But see, again, these people know her and trust her. In earlier seasons, I'd be willing to bet that she would have tried to act tougher to prove she could hack it. This Sam knows it's not necessary because she knows that they know and trust her and will not judge her because she needed to take a moment to decompress. This Sam isn't worried about needing to keep up appearances.

And again, it didn't do anything to lessen her or make her appear weak. In fact it showed how rich her character continues to be by allowing her to vent for a few seconds and then showing her taking charge.

Couldn't green you again, Ooobs. But so well stated!