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    I have a few things to say since the last time I posted:

    1 It's sad Amanda got off the IT list, I think ya need all the people of Vancouver (I read about 2 million) to get her to the first place (no insult, I'm just sayin' ya need an awful lot of people, cause I wonder why or how example "Kaysar" got that high in the ranking). Amanda's our (and ya sure ya betcha my) number ONE!

    2 Thank you for the green I recently received from you, I think I prolly can't rep you your "scores" (light green bars) don't let me give you more green.

    3 Whoever made that Sam-Jack Thanksgivin' invitation, well done, thumbs up!

    4 The posts of you about Amanda and season 10, I like season 10 (cause Stargate is my favourite sci fi show) but if Amanda doesn't sign I'll be sad (no it's not an order). Amanda in stargate is like the electricity needed in a house, a doctor for the sick, a writing tool to write words, the snacks to serve your guests, One of the Seven Chevrons, The tracktitle of the song on your MP3 player.... LOL To calm myself down, I have to think that I'm Amanda hubby and ask; honny, you ARE gonna sign that contract or not? If it wasn't thanx to you, I wouldn't be a fan of Stargate. As a fan Sam/Amanda, is the A in StArgate. I hope everything will be allright (and no, I'm not posting bad feelings or rumors.)

    Daivy


    Thank you Ambermoon for the sigs!

    Comment


      Originally posted by NearlyCircular
      Thanks for saying this, Coley! I've been thinking along the same lines for a while now. The major reason I like Sam so much compared to the female leads in other sci fi/fantasy shows is because she is believable. (within the context of science fiction, that is) She doesn't live in the distant future and she doesn't have super powers. Yet she is a hero in the traditional sense of the word. Sam has been one of the very few women in television I've seen who exists in our time, and gets to go out and save the day along with the guys.

      Young boys growing up have plenty of role models in fiction to emulate if they want to imagine being fighter pilots or action heroes or even cowboys. But young girls don't get those same kinds of models. Sam has been an exception. I agree with you, Coley, when you wonder about young females who think that Vala is great. Is it because they believe that's the way of the world? That the best way to achieve your goals is to lie, cheat and scheme, and dress in a way to distract everyone around you? I certainly hope not.


      Sci fi has been full of females who dressed like Vala, although few behaved like her unless they were villains. If TPTB reduce Sam's role in favor of Vala, they are not only taking away one of the best female characters in televison, but they're replacing her with yet another scantily dressed women, whose behavior is not heroic at all, but self serving. It may still be science fiction, but it certainly doesn't sound like SG-1.

      NC

      Excellent post!!! I couldn't agree with you more. What kind of message does that send to young people?

      Comment


        Hi Everyone,

        I’m new here and I really love your thread. I have been lurking for a while and I find that I enjoy that I can always find some intelligent, thought-provoking debates happening on the Samanda thread.

        [QUOTE=ChopinGal]

        Why are some women happy with the overt sexualization of Vala and the non-leadership of Sam?

        Just my two cents on the Vala issue:

        I pretty much agree with everything that has been said. But, for the fans, I don’t think it has anything to do with Vala being an overtly sexual character. Then again, it probably does for Sci-Fi, MGM/Sony, who do not care about such things as positive role models and strong female characters with integrity. They only care about budgets, money, and ratings. In regards to the fans - it has everything to do with certain fan groups and their agendas.

        IMO, there are two major groups of fans (and I apologize for the generalizations) involved in supporting the Vala character and wanting to sideline or diminish the character of Sam. One group is the Farscape fans who also happen to be SG-1 fans. They want Vala (and Cam) around because they like that two of their favorite actors are in new roles on TV that they can enjoy week after week. A lot of these fans have nothing against Sam (at least as far as I can tell - some even really like Sam and want to see her around full time on SG-1). In fact, I don’t blame them. It is always nice to see your favorites succeed in getting new roles and wanting their characters to be developed fully.

        The other group is the ultra-Daniel fans (not all Daniel fans) who want SG-1 to revolve completely around the character of Daniel. Many of them have disliked Sam since Season 4 and are using their support of the Vala character as another way to put Daniel in the spotlight and put down the character of Sam. IMO, it really has nothing to do with them supporting an overtly sexual character that may or may not be a good role model (depending on your own point of view). It has everything to do with how they feel about Daniel. In fact, many of these fans have stated outright on other Boards that they would stop watching the show all together if MS does not come back in Season 10 – even if Vala is one of the main characters. So, are they really fans of Vala/CB? If they are, it is only by default. These are the same fans (I suspect) who are posting so frequently on Joe’s blog about wanting Sam gone and Vala as her replacement. Do they actually care about positive female role models? Not really - they only care about Daniel.

        I agree with Skydiver – if Vala starts interacting with the other characters more frequently and this starts to take away from Daniel’s screen time, these same fans will start to have quite a different opinion of Vala. I would hypothesize that you will probably be hearing tirades about how worthless and bad the character is. And, in truth, TPTB have to allow the Vala character to interact more fully with the other characters (besides Daniel) because it is the only way they can fully integrate her into the show as part of the regular cast of characters. I guess time will tell how well this works out. I can only hope TPTB respect both the Sam character and AT enough not to push her completely into the backgound.

        I find it quite ironic that there are so many parallels between what happened to Daniel/MS during and after Season 5 (except for the fact MS was offered 20 episodes on SG-1 and decided to leave of his volition). I was reading through some old articles and found a very interesting quote. The Daniel fans were told by Sci-Fi that the Daniel character would be replaced with a ‘real hunk’ after MS left after Season 5.

        One of the Daniel fans responded to this by saying, "How could you hope to replace a complex, three-dimensional and so very human character with just another pretty face? You thought that was enough for us. It isn't!"

        I suspect that some of the same fans who argued this point of view back in 2001 are some of the same ones now campaigning to have Vala replace Sam.

        Double standards indeed.


        Melora

        Comment


          Originally posted by NearlyCircular
          Thanks for saying this, Coley! I've been thinking along the same lines for a while now. The major reason I like Sam so much compared to the female leads in other sci fi/fantasy shows is because she is believable. (within the context of science fiction, that is) She doesn't live in the distant future and she doesn't have super powers. Yet she is a hero in the traditional sense of the word. Sam has been one of the very few women in television I've seen who exists in our time, and gets to go out and save the day along with the guys.

          Young boys growing up have plenty of role models in fiction to emulate if they want to imagine being fighter pilots or action heroes or even cowboys. But young girls don't get those same kinds of models. Sam has been an exception. I agree with you, Coley, when you wonder about young females who think that Vala is great. Is it because they believe that's the way of the world? That the best way to achieve your goals is to lie, cheat and scheme, and dress in a way to distract everyone around you? I certainly hope not.


          Sci fi has been full of females who dressed like Vala, although few behaved like her unless they were villains. If TPTB reduce Sam's role in favor of Vala, they are not only taking away one of the best female characters in televison, but they're replacing her with yet another scantily dressed women, whose behavior is not heroic at all, but self serving. It may still be science fiction, but it certainly doesn't sound like SG-1.

          NC
          Bravo! I LOVE Sam for a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones is that she was such a great role model for me growing up. She is an amazing female character -- a woman who is well-respected in both the military and physical science, two highly male-dominated fields, a good and loyal friend, a brilliant problem-solver, and just a moral, decent, lovely human being. She has become so well-developed and well-rounded over the past nine years, and we've gotten to experience the joy of some of her greatest accomplishments and felt the pain when she made a mistake. She is far from perfect and doesn't claim to be. She does the best with what is given to her and just tries to do the best thing she can for those involved.

          The problems that I have with Vala have nothing to do with the idea that she is "replacing" Sam on the show. I'm all for bringing in new characters as long as they aren't offensive or detract from the overall quality of the show. For me, Vala didn't sit well with me at all. Claudia Black is a wonderful actress and she does some great things with the character, but when Vala was on-screen it just didn't feel like Stargate to me. She was too crude, the mood was too overtly sexual when she was around, and that isn't something that I enjoy watching. If she was simply mischievious and a trouble-maker, I think I could have learned to like her pretty quickly because that wouldn't have detracted from the overall mood of the show for me.

          The biggest problem that I had was the very immature, crude way things were handled when she was around. The example that comes to mind for me is when she was sitting on the infirmary bed sans some key items of clothing and saying "Daniel, let's make babies." My stomach just kind of turned when I saw that -- this was not the Stargate that I had come to love. I respected the series for never degrading its cast members, particularly AT, and feeding them such material that would pander to a teenage mentality. Vala seemed to thrive on that kind of thing, and I didn't care for it. It saddened me how quickly the show's tone changed from Season 8 to the beginning of Season 9. If you like Vala, that is 100% fine with me. To each his own, and for me, she just didn't cut it. I felt like some key quality to Stargate was lost with her addition, and I didn't really like the new feeling that I was getting from the show and cast.

          "But that man who has known the immense unhappiness of losing a friend, by what name do we call him? Here every language is silent and holds its peace in impotence." ~In memory of Whistler84...loved and missed but never, never forgotten. Safe journey, my dear friend. Love you.

          HIC COMITAS REGIT How long until Shore Leave 29???

          Comment


            Originally posted by NearlyCircular
            Young boys growing up have plenty of role models in fiction to emulate if they want to imagine being fighter pilots or action heroes or even cowboys. But young girls don't get those same kinds of models. Sam has been an exception. I agree with you, Coley, when you wonder about young females who think that Vala is great. Is it because they believe that's the way of the world? That the best way to achieve your goals is to lie, cheat and scheme, and dress in a way to distract everyone around you? I certainly hope not.
            Great posts all 'round on here. Can't list the names, just too many.

            Just de-lurking because the question of why some girls think Vala is great and even a role model brought this to mind.
            A few months ago there was a careers survey that hit the news in the UK, accompanied by much head-desking by (mainly) female journalists. In it around 20% of girls said what they wanted to be when they grew up was famous. Famous for what? Just famous. A celebrity.
            Role models referenced included a lady who is best known for showing her (plastic) assets, and one who came to fame because of who she was dating at the time (who then proceeded to show her "assets" ).
            Some young people see being celebrated for being good at something as too much hard work.
            Sam is time consuming to emulate, when you can get what you want (except respect) by being Vala.

            Comment


              Wow.. brilliant posts going on here today... I applaude all of you speaking out on the Amanda being nice thing and the points about role models & Vala's stereotypical image have been my thoughts more eloquently presented. So big cheers to all of you.

              One thing I think will be interesting though if Vala is around in s10 alot more, will be the natural chemistry between Ben & Claudia. With the show trying to steer the Daniel/Vala ship, it'll be interesting to see what role it plays. Natural chemistry between actors is a powerful thing and translates regardless of what you do with the characters.. having had 4 or 5 years to build that on Farscape, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in SG.. hopefully that makes sense. To me it would be like putting RDA & Amanda on a different show, their natural chemistry will show through regardless of the setting. Just another tangent in the chaos of my thoughts..
              sigpic

              Comment


                Hey Samanda sorry to interrupt the great discussions on here but

                NORA!!!! You have us pulling our hair out on that Hammond line!!! We need a clue!! The one on the Whose Line thread at at.com.

                Sorry to interrupt but Kattybean is almost bald now lol.

                Cheers,

                Jan
                sigpic

                Comment


                  Originally posted by JanSam
                  Hey Samanda sorry to interrupt the great discussions on here but

                  NORA!!!! You have us pulling our hair out on that Hammond line!!! We need a clue!! The one on the Whose Line thread at at.com.

                  Sorry to interrupt but Kattybean is almost bald now lol.

                  Cheers,

                  Jan
                  JanSam...I can't remember my password over there but I think I remember where that quote is from...

                  Quote in question:
                  "I'm sorry Major, without evidence I cannot question a direct order."


                  Isn't that from Ascension?

                  Sam is trying to get Hammond to cancel the firing of the weapon but is unable to tell him about the evidence behind her reasoning as it would expose Orlin to danger...so Hammond tells her he can't disobey the order (to fire the weapon as scheduled) unless she can produce real evidence as to why it was a bad idea.

                  ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                    JanSam...I can't remember my password over there but I think I remember where that quote is from...

                    Quote in question:
                    "I'm sorry Major, without evidence I cannot question a direct order."


                    Isn't that from Ascension?

                    Sam is trying to get Hammond to cancel the firing of the weapon but is unable to tell him about the evidence behind her reasoning as it would expose Orlin to danger...so Hammond tells her he can't disobey the order (to fire the weapon as scheduled) unless she can produce real evidence as to why it was a bad idea.
                    Ha that's what I said!!!! Sticks tongue out at Kattybean!!! But when we look for the line in the transcripts it isn't an exact match. Thanks for helping much appreciated!!!!!!!! We been working on this one for three weeks starting to feel oh so dumb LOL.

                    Cheers,

                    Jan
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Interesting find someone dug up...a thread from January this year discussing what people assumed/imagined/hoped/believed regarding what would happen when Sam returned.

                      Interesting how Skydiver called it almost dead on:

                      http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7029

                      ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                      Comment


                        Got to playin with some filters and well.. this came out

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          ChopinGal wrote

                          Why are some women happy with the overt sexualization of Vala and the non-leadership of Sam? What message does that send to girls?

                          I'm not aware of the ages of those who post here, but as someone who's been around the days of bra-burning, ERA, and the RvW Supreme Court decision, I am truly amazed and dumbfounded by this.

                          To me it's a de-evoultion of what women 40+ and 50+ struggled for the respect of thier peers, family and friends, only to be told that no matter what you lose. Watching Sam having to, in effect, tutor a fellow officer the ways and means of gate travel, and never really given the credit. It's hard. Also it's reaffermation of the Glass Ceiling module for all women.

                          A little aside, my son who's in the 18-24 demo. age stopped watching this year. Not because of Vala, but because of Sam's not the leader. Another loyal 8 year viewer gone.


                          As to Vala, if you look at MTV, Fuse, and VH1, Skiffy wants the male demographic that watches these music channels. But the one thing they forget is that women watch Stargate and SGA, looking for strong independent female characters that they can relate to. Vala as she is right now isn't for me.

                          I only hope that girls look at this season as for what it is and move foward.

                          Sorry I took so long.
                          Last edited by LaCroix; 12 November 2005, 05:13 PM.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by SnoggingPicard
                            Bravo! I LOVE Sam for a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones is that she was such a great role model for me growing up. She is an amazing female character -- a woman who is well-respected in both the military and physical science, two highly male-dominated fields, a good and loyal friend, a brilliant problem-solver, and just a moral, decent, lovely human being. She has become so well-developed and well-rounded over the past nine years, and we've gotten to experience the joy of some of her greatest accomplishments and felt the pain when she made a mistake. She is far from perfect and doesn't claim to be. She does the best with what is given to her and just tries to do the best thing she can for those involved.

                            The problems that I have with Vala have nothing to do with the idea that she is "replacing" Sam on the show. I'm all for bringing in new characters as long as they aren't offensive or detract from the overall quality of the show. For me, Vala didn't sit well with me at all. Claudia Black is a wonderful actress and she does some great things with the character, but when Vala was on-screen it just didn't feel like Stargate to me. She was too crude, the mood was too overtly sexual when she was around, and that isn't something that I enjoy watching. If she was simply mischievious and a trouble-maker, I think I could have learned to like her pretty quickly because that wouldn't have detracted from the overall mood of the show for me.

                            The biggest problem that I had was the very immature, crude way things were handled when she was around. The example that comes to mind for me is when she was sitting on the infirmary bed sans some key items of clothing and saying "Daniel, let's make babies." My stomach just kind of turned when I saw that -- this was not the Stargate that I had come to love. I respected the series for never degrading its cast members, particularly AT, and feeding them such material that would pander to a teenage mentality. Vala seemed to thrive on that kind of thing, and I didn't care for it. It saddened me how quickly the show's tone changed from Season 8 to the beginning of Season 9. If you like Vala, that is 100% fine with me. To each his own, and for me, she just didn't cut it. I felt like some key quality to Stargate was lost with her addition, and I didn't really like the new feeling that I was getting from the show and cast.
                            Brilliant!
                            Your words sound like they came out of my mind. I agree totally. The new atmosphere just doesn’t feel right at all!
                            Thank you for putting my feelings into words.

                            "We were a team...no one could even begin to understand what we went through together… What we mean to each other.” Samantha Carter

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

                              Interesting how Skydiver called it almost dead on:

                              http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7029

                              that's cause i'm Miss Negative...a cynical old woman

                              i wish i was wrong
                              Where in the World is George Hammond?


                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Skydiver
                                that's cause i'm Miss Negative...a cynical old woman

                                i wish i was wrong
                                Cynical OLD woman?

                                Hey...let's clear things up right now.

                                I never suggested you were cynical.


                                ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                                Comment

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