Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[MissFarrahScape]

Thanks HybrideBabe,
That says exactly what I wanted to say with the right tone and demeanor.

[RyantheGreat]

Back to the subject at hand... Cameron Mitchell.

You think we're going to see more of the girl that pulled the sword from the stone to save him? The sword drawn supposedly signils the return of Arthur, and Cameron believes Arthur was immaculately conceived, sooOOoooo....

1.Is Vala carrying Arthur reborn?
2.Is Cameron Arthur reborn? Or maybe the girl?
3.I got nothin'...

(okay, it was a stretch to relate it to him, but it worked, right?)

[Jades]

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2829233/1/
It's a fanfiction I wrote about Mitchell, and how Daniel especially didn't treat him as anything other than a "fanboy" in Avalon/Origin. It takes place after Mitchell and Jack's joyride in the skies. Hope you all like it! ^_^

Awesome! Thanks HB, I'll be sure to read it.

If anyone's looking for Mitchell fic in general, Minxy has a great list of Mitchell fic recs on LJ that she updates regularly. Definately worth checking out: http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/12172.html

Also, Welcome to everyone new to this thread.

[Jades]

This is what I mean about strategy verses tactics. Once on the Prometheus, Cameron's swift tactical idea to launch 302s was right on the money. But it was a strategic weakness which got them into the Daniel/Prometheus fix in the first place. Since then Landry has been present and very hands-on with the strategy side of things.

I think SG-1’s strategy failed largely due to incomplete intelligence and underestimating the enemy. Had they foreknowledge of the satellite’s shielding or weapons capability they would not have hesitated in destroying it as soon as they dropped out of hyperspace. Mitchell would’ve had to have the blessing of his superiors to undertake the mission, so I think it’s plausible that Landry would have also supported the mission if he was presented with the same intelligence.

I do agree that Daniel’s diplomatic mission although well-intentioned, was ill-advised and contributed to Sam and Mitchell’s indecision (due to concern for Daniel’s safety) in destroying the satellite. But even if Mitchell hadn’t hesitated in making the ‘tough call’ it was already too late and the outcome would have been the same.

The only time I think Mitchell erred was when he followed Daniel's advice and did not destroy the satellite when he had the chance (inconveniently this happened to be one of the few times Daniel was wrong ). Doing so would have removed the immediate threat and at least bought them some time to work towards a peaceful resolution.

I liked that this ep did not have the conventional 'happy ending'. Despite the character's best intentions, catastrophic mistakes were made and it all ended pretty messily. Although, I would have liked to have seen SG-1 suffer some consequences from losing the Prometheus, rather than get a brand new ship the very next episode.

edit: PS, I am not allowed to go into why I think this strategic weakness in Ethon was not Cameron's fault.

Personally, I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t discuss this. This thread does have a pro-Mitchell bent, but it doesn’t mean you have to like everything about the character. Nor is there really a proviso that you have to agree that Mitchell should be team leader. If it’s in the context of the discussion and not out-in-out character bashing, or a redux of the ‘Who should lead’ thread, it should be fine to discuss. A variety of views keeps things interesting.

[ChillinTheMost]

Chronicling Mitchell:

914 – Stronghold

In an effort to save an Air Force friend, Mitchell pulls strings to get him into the Air Force hospital where some alien technology is used. Mitchell believes that it is his fault that his friend, Fergy, is in the hospital. “The irony is, he probably would have had my spot in the 302 program if he hadn’t been injured” and “Ferguson got that chunk of metal in his head saving my sorry ass four years ago.”

While visiting Ferguson, Mitchell is concerned, but doesn’t coddle him. Mitchell doesn’t pity Ferguson, but helps him to draw on his strength by allowing him to talk frankly about his impending death. Mitchell also brings a video game that obviously he and Fergie had played before and enjoyed. When Fergy gets tired of playing, Mitchell tries to encourage him to play a little more but when it becomes obvious that Fergie is just too tired, they take a break. Ferguson tells Mitchell that he doesn’t have to hang around, but Mitchell says he does.

Later, Ferguson hints around that he knows Mitchell is involved in some top secret Air Force stuff and Mitchell works around the subject. Ferguson accuses Mitchell of survivor’s guilt. Even later, Ferguson again brings up the top secret Air Force stuff, this time mentioning that he thinks Mitchell is fighting aliens. Mitchell teasingly counters with “I think that chunk of metal you’ve got in your cranium has caused a lot of damage.” Mitchell doesn’t give anything away without permission.

Mitchell tries to get coffee out of the coffee machine in the hospital corridor, but the machine isn’t working:
Dr. Kelly: I find it helps if you hit it.
Mitchell: No, that’s alright. I probably shouldn’t have any more caffeine.
Dr. Kelly: I got the results back from the cat scan… [Dr. Kelly gives Mitchell the bad news that his friend is terminal.]
Mitchell rams his elbow into the glass front of the coffee machine, shattering it.
Mitchell: Sorry, Doc, you were wrong. Hitting it doesn’t help. [as he walks away, he announces,] I’ll pay for that!

Later Mitchell is on the phone talking to Landry asking for special permission to give Ferguson some classified information. The phone is next to the coffee machine, which now has a sign that reads, “Out of order. Sorry.”

Carter brings Mitchell the memory-exchange device so that Mitchell can share some of his adventures with Ferguson – adventures that Mitchell feels Ferguson would have had if he weren’t injured.
Carter: Do you need some help with this?
Mitchell: No. I got it. Does this make me a hypocrite?
Carter: I told my dad.
Mitchell: He was getting a Tok’ra symbiote.
Carter: Pete…
Mitchell: Got shot, by a Goa’uld with a laser blaster… that’s not really the point. I mean about using that thing. I mean… after what happened to me, I was… opposed to anyone… ever having anything to do with that technology. Now, I’m going out of my way to make use of it.
Carter: Is showing your friend the truth going to make him feel any better?
Mitchell: He wants to know that I’m not gonna be burdened with guilt, over the fact that he died because of me…
Carter: The truth gonna change that?
Mitchell: Not for me.

When Mitchell asks if using the device for Ferguson makes him a hypocrite, Sam misunderstands and says she told her father and Pete. Mitchell takes a moment from his dilemma to support Sam in her decision to tell her father and Pete about the Stargate Program. But telling Ferguson about the SGC isn’t Mitchell’s dilemma. Telling anyone about the Stargate Program without permission would be against orders, but wouldn’t make him a hypocrite because he never stated that he thought the program should be kept a secret from everyone/everywhere. What he thinks will make him a hypocrite is using the memory device on his friend, since, after what happened to him, he never wanted the device used again. Sam’s misunderstanding, and Mitchell allowing her to work through her own conflictions before returning the conversation back to his own problem, was, in his highly emotional state, quite generous.

Carter then asks if telling Ferguson the truth will help Mitchell not feel guilt. Mitchell concedes that it won’t stop him from feeling guilt, but maybe it will ease Ferguson’s mind to think that it had.

Mitchell hooks Ferguson up to the machine to share some SG-1 memories and to let Ferguson know why he has to leave him abruptly [because Teal’c is in danger].

Before Mitchell leaves Ferguson:
Mitchell: Look, before I go… I have to say something. You may not like it, but I’m gonna have to live with it no matter what you say or do… I’m sorry. I’m doing what I’m doing and you’re not, because…, I acted rashly. I’m a hot head and you’re suffering because of it.
Ferguson: No, you’re doing what you’re doing because of who you are.
Mitchell: Yeah, I’m impatient. I lose control. I’m not particularly fond of that side of myself.
Ferguson: I didn’t mean that. When you see an opportunity you take it. The kinds of things that you and me were asked to do… that you’re doing now…, you got to be a little angry. You got to be out of control. You think too much, it’s gonna freeze up. My, god! You are going to other planets through a freaking wormhole! You have to be a little nuts.
Mitchell: I just don’t want to screw it up… again.
…
Ferguson: Just be yourself, Cam. Trust me, that’s pretty damn good.
Mitchell: Thanks.
Ferguson: I would have done it for anyone. You know that. It’s part of the job.
Mitchell: Yeah, it is…

Mitchell sees himself as a impulsive and rash, but others [represented by Ferguson] see him as someone that takes the opportunity when it presents itself – something that is needed in his job.

Mitchell joins the Teal’c rescue mission with Carter giving briefing. Carter gives him a quick “Is everything okay?” look and Mitchell nods that it is.
During the battle, Mitchell is told to storm the hill to take out a big gun that is pinning down the SGC teams. He does so and heads for the rings to get aboard the ship that has Teal’c imprisoned. Carter yells for him to wait for backup, but it is unclear whether he hears her through the battle noise. Carter and Jackson head after him as they hear the ship with Teal’c powering up to leave.

There are differing opinions here, but I found no wrong in Mitchell storming the gun when ordered to by another commanding officer, who was providing cover fire. The objective was to get to the ship holding Teal’c and Mitchell was the first person with a clear line to that objective. If Mitchell had held back, the ship with Teal’c would have taken off.

When Carter and Jackson catch up to Mitchell, Carter gets the rings to work [they were malfunctioning or needed a different code- Carter had to take the front off and work with the crystals – the buttons weren’t working].
Carter says that they can’t all go on the ship because of the problem with rings or they could be cut off with no way of getting back. She tells Mitchell to go.
Mitchell: You sure about that?
Carter: Am I gonna be able to stop you?
Mitchell: I don’t think so. I’m in a bad mood today.

Again, some people saw this as negative, but I’m not sure why. Carter knew only one person should go [or maybe two with one staying back to guard the ring controls, but she makes the decision of only one person going]. Carter recognizes that Mitchell’s state of mind makes him the best candidate because he is determined and ready to make the rash choices that will be needed to free Teal’c. [Also, it was best for Carter to stay by the rings as she was best qualified to work on them as needed. It also was better to send Mitchell than Jackson, because sending Jackson would be an unnecessary risk for one of the SGC’s leading experts].

As per the plan, Teal’c and Bra’tac are rescued.

Mitchell/Teal’c locker room scene:
Teal’c: Colonel Mitchell, you should know that your actions were instrumental in bringing about a successful vote for a democratic Jaffa nation today.
Mitchell: Yeah. I heard about that. That’s great. Sorry, I missed it.
Teal’c: I understand. And I am sorry about your friend.
Mitchell: Yeah. I was hoping to see him again.
Teal’c: I am in your debt Colonel Mitchell. Not only for saving my life, but for saving the live of Bra’tac as well.
Mitchell: Teal’c, no offense, but… I would have done the same for anyone. You don’t owe me a thing. We watch each other’s back ‘cause that’s our job. Right?
[Mitchell echoes the sentiment between himself and Ferguson with Teal’c. He also releases Teal’c of any feeling of debt by acknowledging that saving each other is what they are supposed to do. That they will all have saved each other numerous times before it is all over. Teal’c agrees.]
Teal’c: Indeed. [starts to leave]
Mitchell: Hey, Tealc. How did you resist the brainwashing? I figure I might be in that situation one day… and I don’t reckon I’m going throught the right of M’al Sharran.
Teal’c: To resist the influence of others, knowledge of one’s self is most important.
Mitchell: Right. Thanks. Yeah, I’m working on it.

Quotes:

I’m in a bad mood today.

… I would have done the same for anyone. You don’t owe me a thing. We watch each other’s back ‘cause that’s our job. Right?

[ChillinTheMost]

I'm still waiting to see what Cameron's niche will be in the thinking department. I would've liked a new character's strengths and weaknesses to be more established by now (they've done a whole season of him). Jack's forte was tactics; he was a very sound and quick tactician. He was less of a strategist (which is why I don't see him being such a good general as, say, Hammond of Landry; both Sam and Daniel are better strategists, I think. Teal'c seems to be a mixture, having had decades of experience but in a more confining structure for most of that time).

Cameron - I don't know where he is yet; he hasn't had a chance to show strategic thinking because Landry is getting much more attention than Hammond did; and he still seems to be learning what the appropriate tactical approaches are for the very different situtations he finds himself in compared with what he was used to as a fighter pilot. Without getting into forbidden territory, I think the writers are finding it difficult to show him weighing up consequences and making decisions. It's interesting that the two prominent occasions when he has put forward a strong tactical decision, by himself, are both related to the kind of experience he has most of -

Ethon:

Spoiler:

to launch 302s from the Prometheus, because the enemy satellite can only acquire one target at a time

Camelot:

Spoiler:

to launch 302s from the Korelev, because they're getting pasted and they've got to throw everything at the Ori regardless

Interesting distinction between tactician and strategist. I never really thought about it, so I find it interesting. I think you're saying that tacticians make necessary 'right now' decisions, where strategist's think about the long-term game, many steps ahead. I can see where it would be beneficial for O'Neill to have been the tactician and Hammond and Landry to be the strategists, just by definition of their duties.

I think so far, Mitchell has shown more of the tactician traits, but I'm not sure we've seen them as defined as in O'Neill, yet. Part of this could be that he is still acclimating himself to his new position, so I hope his leadership traits are more defined next year.

Something else to watch for next season!

[ChillinTheMost]

I think the very fact that Cameron and Vala have been brought in as new blood (plus Landy and Lam to a lesser extent) shows that they're hoping to put life into the franchise for a while yet. AT, CJ and MS (on and off) will have been on the show for ten years - already a very long time for an actor to be with a TV production - and they are not going to want to stay around forever.

But I hope they do decide to stick around! I know this many years on one show can lessen the excitement of an actor, hopefully some of the changes will reinvigorate them and make the show seem "new". The new characters, the new plot lines.... hopefully these will help keep the show fresh for those stalwarts that have helped carry this show for so many years.

[scarimor]

Interesting distinction between tactician and strategist. I never really thought about it, so I find it interesting. I think you're saying that tacticians make necessary 'right now' decisions, where strategist's think about the long-term game, many steps ahead. I can see where it would be beneficial for O'Neill to have been the tactician and Hammond and Landry to be the strategists, just by definition of their duties.

Yes, strategy is long term - how you achieve your goal. Tactics are the precise means you employ in the strategy. A brief intro into the difference here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactics

I think so far, Mitchell has shown more of the tactician traits, but I'm not sure we've seen them as defined as in O'Neill, yet.

Agreed. Although he has already showed his fighter-pilot tactical strengths to good advantage since joining the SGC.

[Lightsabre]

Agreed. Although he has already showed his fighter-pilot tactical strengths to good advantage since joining the SGC.

Which is something I wish they would stop. Mitchell is a kick ass fighter pilot and that is a major strength of his. However, the more they associate him with 302's, the more it makes him less of a team member. His piloting ability isn't a personal thing, like Sam's smarts or Daniel's morals, it's only useful to him on his own(that we've seen so far).
It again makes him the 'outsider' and we need less of that, not more.

[greytop]

I wish to see some training or sparing of Teal'c and Cameron. I believe that they are doing it off screen. Because in Camelot,

Spoiler:

Cameron mention to Daniel that Teal'c was teaching him to Kelnorim.

[RyantheGreat]

I wish to see some training or sparing of Teal'c and Cameron. I believe that they are doing it off screen. Because in Camelot,

Spoiler:

Cameron mention to Daniel that Teal'c was teaching him to Kelnorim.

I imagine since Cam's time with the Sodon, that he could give Teal'c a workout.

[scarimor]

When Carter and Jackson catch up to Mitchell, Carter gets the rings to work [they were malfunctioning or needed a different code- Carter had to take the front off and work with the crystals – the buttons weren’t working].
Carter says that they can’t all go on the ship because of the problem with rings or they could be cut off with no way of getting back. She tells Mitchell to go.
Mitchell: You sure about that?
Carter: Am I gonna be able to stop you?
Mitchell: I don’t think so. I’m in a bad mood today.

Again, some people saw this as negative, but I’m not sure why. Carter knew only one person should go [or maybe two with one staying back to guard the ring controls, but she makes the decision of only one person going]. Carter recognizes that Mitchell’s state of mind makes him the best candidate because he is determined and ready to make the rash choices that will be needed to free Teal’c. [Also, it was best for Carter to stay by the rings as she was best qualified to work on them as needed. It also was better to send Mitchell than Jackson, because sending Jackson would be an unnecessary risk for one of the SGC’s leading experts].

Yessss! Totally agree. Although I wouldn't use the term "rash choices" to describe Cam's energy - he was on a roll and she needed someone with momentum to go up there, and what's more needed people who weren't so hyped to hold their defendable position and secure their retreat (i.e. herself and Daniel).

As per the plan, Teal’c and Bra’tac are rescued.

Good job all round.

[shester]

That was my take on it too. Mitchell wasn't being rash. He was doing his job. He has tons of energy (as well as Ben).
Sybil

[Cpt. Ritter]

I wish to see some training or sparing of Teal'c and Cameron. I believe that they are doing it off screen. Because in Camelot,

Spoiler:

Cameron mention to Daniel that Teal'c was teaching him to Kelnorim.

Yep, that'd be something to see. Jonas got his butt kicked doing that with Teal'c but Mitchell could hold his own and that'd be nice to see. Better yet, be nice to see him break out the moves on an alien planet!

[Dream-a-Little]

We have the same button so it is not just you. I feel it just gives the anti-Mitchell people more ammo to hate him if their favorite character doesn't seem to respect him. I know people would be freaking if it was Cam instead of Teal'c who ran off to get the Lucian Alliance to fight with them.

I wonder what the whole back story with Mitchell's family is because you know we don't have all the facts yet. Has it been established if Mitchell's father is dead or alive yet? Was he around when he crashed in Antarctica? If so, why wasn't he with his mother at the hospital bed? How much time did Mitchell spend with his grandmother and why?? Yup, I want more Mitchell stories.

I hope Ben has a good story line for season 10. It makes me slightly nervous that the spoilers I have seen so far barely mention him and only in passing - not as a major part of any ep.

It's good to see I'm not alone in my button department. And at least Mitchell had the courtesy to tell Sam where he was going in AM. It was a courtesy that Teal’c couldn’t be bothered to extend Sam. Poor Sam, she has one team member to keep track of and she loses him straight off.

In regards to spoilers, I keep reminding myself that they seem to mostly come from pages put out for audition sides for guest stars. So really the only thing that you can draw from them is that Mitchell doesn't have significant scenes with a guest star in those episodes. It doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have a significant part in the episode as a whole. However, I never want to underestimate TPTB's ability to do things to annoy the crap out of me.