Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[ChillinTheMost]

Hmm... I think the opposite actually. I think Mitchell seems closer to Daniel than he does to Sam and Teal'c. I think he actually needs more bonding time with Sam.

I would at least like to see a scene of Teal'c, Daniel and Sam discussing amongst themselves how they feel about Mitchell so far.

I agree that Mitchell seems closer to Daniel than Teal'c because I think Mitchell and Daniel seem like brothers with the way they banter, are sometimes exasperated, but ultimately seem to support each other. Teal'c seems to really like him one minute and is unsure the next, so I don't think they can be close until makes up his mind. I actually think Mitchell and Sam have the closest relationship because of the little things, like how he'll just drop in and ask her to go to breakfast with him.

I like you're idea of a scene with Teal'c, Daniel and Sam discussing Mitchell, but if it is a positive discussion, some fans will call it a blantant attempt by the writers to convince the fans to like Mitchell and that they are 'telling, not showing' again.

[scarimor]

Kas - ok then, I guess this is going to be a little like discussing art without mentioning the colour blue... there are just going to be some aspects of Cameron's character that can't be discussed because they bear directly on that one forbidden issue. I still disagree with Shards' criticism of Cameron's behaviour in the Camelot scenes he specified - I just won't be able to tell you why I believe Cameron did a good job, ok?

My other two posts about Cameron didn't fall foul of that which is forbidden... at least that's something

You know, on the Sam character thread, there are folk there who are passionate Jack/Sam shippers, and folk (like me) who don't like the ship (well, to be honest I loath it - shhhh ), and others who aren't bothered either way. It's not a forbidden issue - everyone gets along - but they don't have a problem mentioning whether Jack and Sam are together if it's relevant to another issue or observation. Neither does the thread get flooded with are-they/aren't-they arguments as a result. And I bet that if TPTB wrote a definitive scene which put Jack and Sam together, or set them apart, it wouldn't matter two hoots to that thread.

I think your fear that this thread would become a sole-leader/not-leader war zone if contributors were allowed to mention it is unfounded. But if you really want to cut half the fans out just to be on the "safe side"... I'm glad the Jack/Sam-shippers weren't so defensive, god love 'em

[ChillinTheMost]

Actually, I love the character of Sam, but everytime I go to that thread, there is so much Mitchell-bashing, that I usually leave without comment. Just because that thread supports your views, doesn't mean it is perfect. As no thread ever will be.

I have no problem with your view that Mitchell and Sam are co-leaders. Just about everyone else here feels differently. I have no problem if you express those views, but like Kas mentioned, I don't want this thread to become just another debate on the subject.

If the only thing you wish to discuss is the leadership issue, there are plenty of threads to handle that. If you wish to discuss other things, or other things where your view of the leadership issue explains your position, than I have no problem with that.

I think our main concern is that this thread doesn't become an argument of only that issue.

Welcome and I hope you join us in discussing a variety of Mitchell subjects.

[scarimor]

If the only thing you wish to discuss is the leadership issue, there are plenty of threads to handle that.

I'd rather not. It's been done to death.

Hmm, I haven't seen much mention of Cameron on the Sam thread... not surprisingly.

I think it's going to be hard to talk about anything I like about Cameron while walking on eggshells. I haven't come across this kind of fragility re. a character before... and some characters are old hands at taking a bashing. I could stay in the shallow end and talk about how goooood his legs looked in leather in Off the Grid... but that's really the BB thunk thread...

[ChillinTheMost]

Yeah, I thought the leadership discussion was interesting in the beginning. Both sides made good points and it really made me think. But then, it just became the same thing repeated over and over.

[FoolishPleasure]

I'm usually just a lurker here - y'all say what I'm thinking already so I don't have much to add, but my 2-cents for the moment.

Mitchell was given command of SG1 when there was no Sam. When Sam returned, no one could remove his command as it was already there - and he has seniority over her in rank anyway (both Lt. Colonels, but he has held the rank longer), therefore, I see Mitchell as the leader. However, he is fully aware of Sam's capabilities and doesn't need to explain himself or go into any details on what is needed for any given situation - she already knows.

I see how it might seem they are "co-leaders" but if it came down to a final decision, Mitchell would have to make it (with input of all his team). He is Sam's friend, respects her highly (and I think she is terrific), but ultimately he is the boss.

Just my take on it.

[scarimor]

I would at least like to see a scene of Teal'c, Daniel and Sam discussing amongst themselves how they feel about Mitchell so far.

So would I - but it's quite a difficult scene to engineer. There has to be a plot-purpose to it or else it would come off looking contrived. Cameron would need to be out of the scene for some reason while the other three were all together (count how many times that's happened this season - they've been split up into pairs or singles more often - a much more common dynamic when they're investigating or dealing with something).

I think Sam, Daniel and teal'c would need to be discussing Cameron in relation to something specific too. A scene like, "So, how do you think the new guy's coming along?" wouldn't go over well, because anything they said would be so laden with weight in those circumstances. Perhaps a way into it would be Sam telling the other two something about him which she knew from his past, which was relevant to his mission - something like that.

[shester]

I agree Scarimor. It needs to have a reason behind it not just start talking about what they think about Mitchell. It has to be part of the plot or it would stand out way too much and seem contrived. I wouldn't want that. I like for the stories to flow not jump around just to get a point across.
Hope that made sense.
Sybil

[bunnicula2001]

I think Sam, Daniel and teal'c would need to be discussing Cameron in relation to something specific too. A scene like, "So, how do you think the new guy's coming along?" wouldn't go over well, because anything they said would be so laden with weight in those circumstances. Perhaps a way into it would be Sam telling the other two something about him which she knew from his past, which was relevant to his mission - something like that.

What if Mitchell had to have a review by the higher-ups of how he's holding up so far? In that case, each of the other team members might be called in to give their opinions on him thus far.

I personally wasn't too sure of Cam at first but this past season he really grew on me and now I luff him like a new puppy!

[FoolishPleasure]

What if Mitchell had to have a review by the higher-ups of how he's holding up so far? In that case, each of the other team members might be called in to give their opinions on him thus far.

Good idea for a clip show, if they decide to do one in season 10.

[Kas]

What if Mitchell had to have a review by the higher-ups of how he's holding up so far? In that case, each of the other team members might be called in to give their opinions on him thus far.

I personally wasn't too sure of Cam at first but this past season he really grew on me and now I luff him like a new puppy!

Sounds good... or rather than telling, how about a scenes where we just see them all socialising... all having a real good time... and how about they just let Mitch make the call and just not having everyone question it.?.. He's done it before (Beachhead - Ethon - Stronghold) but they've just quietened those moments down... not given him the camera emphasis at the point of decision etc... it's amazing how directorial points can really help a character.

Glad you've grown to really enjoy the Cam character

[Lightsabre]

Lightsabre, I guess the happy smiling Cameron faces, and my reminder that Cameron is a hero who saved SG-1 in Antarctica, and my assertion he deserves the reward he chose (serving with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c) is all an attack on the character then...

I posted in support of the others because that is how your post came across. YOu might not have meant it to, but if that's the case, I think you phrased ti very badly. I've gone back and re-read it several times and I cannot get the feeling of sarcasm and poking at Mitchell. That might be just me, but the fact that two others, who have not had the issues I have with you thought the same thing tells me it's probably not.
And I did suggest if we'd gotten your meaning wrong, you might need to look at how you framed your post. THis is the net, things are easy to misunderstand on here.

Or could it simply be that because I don't subscribe to a sole leader dogma, you're prejudiced and read such clear appreciation of the character as an attack?[/color]

It's got nothing to do with that. However, this is NOT the place for the leadership debate.

Guys, there is no reason you should deny fans the right to like Mitchell, and to discuss what they like about him here, simply because they choose to believe one way or the other. That's possessive. It's also a little short-sighted... have you considered what you'll do if, come season 10, the writers decide to make good on their claims that Mitchell is not in charge of them all and write a scene which states it explicitly? I won't be bothered either way, but what will you do? Will you still try to exclude any Cam-fan who doesn't believe what you believe? Will you rename this thread Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation Alternative Universe?

Again, this reads like an attack. No one said you couldn't be here or discuss what you like about Mitchell. You can believe he's co-lead, no-lead, an alien dressed as man or a man dressed as an alien for all we care. we simply do not want this to become the leadership thread(I esp don't, as this thread is where I hide from the leadership thread).
In the 'Sam' thread, people often say that it's their escape from the rest of GW and people who may not like Sam. There's a good atmosphere on that thread, but they do have rules and one is no Sam bashing, even sideways Sam bashing.
It's the same here. THis is where we come to discuss Mitchell and the kind of character he is. This si where we come to get away fromt eh Mitchell bashing that you can see on other threads.
I also don't see how us asking you not to replay the leadership debate here would lead to us denying the cannon of the show, were it to be said Mitchell was not in sole command.
I think that was hyperbole on your part.
I hope I've cleared up my stance.
If you can identify a single comment I made which was an attack on the character, go ahead. Point to the comment which wasn't "civil" while you're at it.

[Lightsabre]

Sounds good... or rather than telling, how about a scenes where we just see them all socialising... all having a real good time... and how about they just let Mitch make the call and just not having everyone question it.?.. He's done it before (Beachhead - Ethon - Stronghold) but they've just quietened those moments down... not given him the camera emphasis at the point of decision etc... it's amazing how directorial points can really help a character.

Glad you've grown to really enjoy the Cam character

But they do socialise.
They play BBall and they have movie nights. That seems to indicate, to me at least, that they like and respect Mitchell. I mean, my boss and I get along ok, but I'm not gonna invite him over to my place to watch movies and stuff.

I agree, we need to see Mitchell making more calls, but more than that, we need to see the other OBEYING him, rather than giving a sense of going along with him.

[Lightsabre]

Yeah, I thought the leadership discussion was interesting in the beginning. Both sides made good points and it really made me think. But then, it just became the same thing repeated over and over.

True, however I think I'm done with it, so it may just die.
I probably wouldn't have been there so long if it hadn't been for the incessant Mitchell bashing.

[RyantheGreat]

All I'll say about Mitchell's leadership is that he's inexperianced Off World, so he's got to find his legs, as it were, and he will. Anyone teamed up with a group that have saved the world countless times is going to feel a slight hesitation about ordering them to do something instead of suggesting... once he's sure he's right about something, however, he doesn't budge.

I'm both new to the forum and to this particular thread, so if I'm repeating something, I apologize, but Cam is going to suffer for a season or two from comparisons to Jack, it just can't be helped, but there are differences.

Their senses of humor are similiar but there is a difference. Jack was more dry, and Cam is more sarcastic. Plus, Jack pretended to be dumb, where as Cameron speaks with a southern accent, while nearly everyone else in the SGC seems to be from the northeast, midwest, so people automatically deduct IQ points unnecessarily. (This is true, if you're a southerner, and you move north, people are surprised that you have a basic grasp on, well, anything.) Look to the fact that Daniel and the Chinese envoy both believed, without any evidence that Mitchell didn't understand them when they were speaking to each other at the Gate before going to the Beta site, when, infact, he did. Jack would have just pretended he had no idea what they were saying, where as Mitchell showed them up. Heh. I like that.

I think Ben is bringing great talent to the role, and I look forward to what is to come.