Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

one thing i always wondered was how the hell did they manage to gain all of those earth base weapons? such as m-60s, m-72s, mortars, Mp-5s and 9mms.

[hedwig]

one thing i always wondered was how the hell did they manage to gain all of those earth base weapons? such as m-60s, m-72s, mortars, Mp-5s and 9mms.

I always wondered that, too. The SG team that was captured some 11 months before certainly wasn't carrying all these weapons with them when they were captured.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I always wondered that, too. The SG team that was captured some 11 months before certainly wasn't carrying all these weapons with them when they were captured.

unless it was like a research base or something (but at this point the only off-world base SGC had was the Alpha Site).

[fems]

Weren't they supposedly caught somewhere in early season two? Or was that the time Apophis set up the camp? Either way, it's possible this team was captured with a FRED loaded full of weapons (and perhaps they reverse-engineered some too) but I wouldn't be surprised if most of it was from captured (and escaped) teams and maybe some left behind packs. Whenever the teams are caught they usually get stripped of their weapons and packs and if there were some dangerous (weather, earthquake, attack, etc) situation it's not implausible for teams to leave behind (some of) their gear. The Jaffa probably started retrieving Tau'ri weaponry, like the SG teams do with all off-world (advanced) tech.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

the one thing i always found kinda goofy and cool at the same time was seeing Bra'tac and the other jaffa using human weapons after Season 5.

[hlndncr]

I don't blame Jack for his reaction; it's not like Sam sleeping with another guy and actually considering said guy's proposal screams how much she loves Jack. If Jack had told her not to go through with it then they probably would never get out of their subordinate/superior relationship! He had no right to tell her what to do and Sam, really, had no right to ask it of him. As a friend, informing him her guy had just proposed and she was doubting a bit because of her job etc, okay but not as the guy who probably loves you more than anything and has been standing aside for a few months now while you're getting cozy with some loser totally unworthy of you. Besides, Jack is not one to talk about his feelings easily so why would he go out on a limb here and confess his feelings when she might just nod, thank him for his honesty and still go ahead and marry the cop! It's not like Jack had something to offer her other than a 'someday', like it had been for the past few years...

If Jack would have told her to kick the cop to the curb then that 'thing' would always stand between them if they got together later. Heck, Sam might even resent him (okay, she probably wouldn't but worst case scenario) for 'telling her what to do' about Pete if she and Jack still can't get together for a few years, she's too old to conceive by the time they're together and/or too much has happened for their relationship to work out and she's just basically wasted 15+ years pining after someone only to be disappointed and ending up alone again after making a go of it. I'm not saying it wouldn't be the same for Jack, but he's done the whole family thing before and, well, basically had a life once whereas Sam never really got further than a successful career and some failed relationships.

The proposal (heck, the entire relationship) was something for Sam and her alone to reject/accept.

I don't think Sam would have resented Jack or any of the guys from talking her out of marrying . In fact, I think she was desperately looking for that because she didn't have the courage to do it alone. In a way, I think her friends abandoned her on this one. I know it's a tricky situation when you have a friend in a relationship with someone you know is not good for her, but from my own experience I've found it's better to speak up and be honest and then support them even if they continue making stupid decisions. That way you don't alienate them if it works out (rare) and when it all falls apart they know who they can really trust to be honest with them. All of the guys should have been more honest with her.

And Jack did aproach her in this case. He was worried about her and asked her what was wrong. So he opened the door and then was too much of a coward to step on through. If he didn't want to confront her feelings he should have asked Daniel to go talk with her.

My two cents.

[fems]

I don't think Sam would have resented Jack or any of the guys from talking her out of marrying . In fact, I think she was desperately looking for that because she didn't have the courage to do it alone. In a way, I think her friends abandoned her on this one. I know it's a tricky situation when you have a friend in a relationship with someone you know is not good for her, but from my own experience I've found it's better to speak up and be honest and then support them even if they continue making stupid decisions. That way you don't alienate them if it works out (rare) and when it all falls apart they know who they can really trust to be honest with them. All of the guys should have been more honest with her.

And Jack did aproach her in this case. He was worried about her and asked her what was wrong. So he opened the door and then was too much of a coward to step on through. If he didn't want to confront her feelings he should have asked Daniel to go talk with her.

My two cents.

Yes, like I said she could ask his opinion as her friend (the same way Daniel or Teal'c might give his opinion on the proposal) but not in the way she did; she was clearly asking him what to do because of his feelings for her. That's like saying "hey, I've got this offer from a great guy so if you still want me in your life you have to trump him and you've got five minutes to convince me. Ready, set, go!"

Jack, on the other hand, handled it the way a friend would by reassuring her about a possible family etc. He simply sort-of refused to answer her "what about you?" because she had no right to ask that of him while showing him another man's ring and having been in a steady relationship for months, without showing any real consideration towards Jack and how this might affect him (especially in the light of his "I know" and the look he gave her in Lost City). Under the circumstances I found her question completely inappropriate and I have to say I thought the visit to Jack's house in Threads was much more appropriate. Too bad that didn't quite work out the way she'd hoped...

[hedwig]

I don't think Sam would have resented Jack or any of the guys from talking her out of marrying . In fact, I think she was desperately looking for that because she didn't have the courage to do it alone. In a way, I think her friends abandoned her on this one. I know it's a tricky situation when you have a friend in a relationship with someone you know is not good for her, but from my own experience I've found it's better to speak up and be honest and then support them even if they continue making stupid decisions. That way you don't alienate them if it works out (rare) and when it all falls apart they know who they can really trust to be honest with them. All of the guys should have been more honest with her.

And Jack did aproach her in this case. He was worried about her and asked her what was wrong. So he opened the door and then was too much of a coward to step on through. If he didn't want to confront her feelings he should have asked Daniel to go talk with her.

My two cents.

GW wouldn't let me officially green you, so instead here have this ... GREEN.

[Ikorni]

Yes, like I said she could ask his opinion as her friend (the same way Daniel or Teal'c might give his opinion on the proposal) but not in the way she did; she was clearly asking him what to do because of his feelings for her. That's like saying "hey, I've got this offer from a great guy so if you still want me in your life you have to trump him and you've got five minutes to convince me. Ready, set, go!"

Jack, on the other hand, handled it the way a friend would by reassuring her about a possible family etc. He simply sort-of refused to answer her "what about you?" because she had no right to ask that of him while showing him another man's ring and having been in a steady relationship for months, without showing any real consideration towards Jack and how this might affect him (especially in the light of his "I know" and the look he gave her in Lost City). Under the circumstances I found her question completely inappropriate and I have to say I thought the visit to Jack's house in Threads was much more appropriate. Too bad that didn't quite work out the way she'd hoped...

I do agree with the highlighted bits - I really didn't like Sam in these episodes who behaved so unlike the Sam I know from the earlier seasons. Personally, I always thought she was asking Jack behind another man's ring to talk her out of accepting the proposal.

[Lucycat]

the only guy i could see sam with, and this would have to be ONLY if jack were dead...

cameron mitchell

eeh? I like Ben Browder (esp. in Farscape) but I don't think he and AT have that kind of chemistry, nor does Sam and Cam. They are friends and colleagues only. Just my opinion.

I don't think Sam would stay alone if Jack died, but there was no one on the show who I like for her, so it would be a whole new guy who is tall (no short potatoes) and maybe not know about the Stargate but would respect her and the word "classified".

[majorsal]

I don't blame Jack for his reaction; it's not like Sam sleeping with another guy and actually considering said guy's proposal screams how much she loves Jack. If Jack had told her not to go through with it then they probably would never get out of their subordinate/superior relationship! He had no right to tell her what to do and Sam, really, had no right to ask it of him. As a friend, informing him her guy had just proposed and she was doubting a bit because of her job etc, okay but not as the guy who probably loves you more than anything and has been standing aside for a few months now while you're getting cozy with some loser totally unworthy of you. Besides, Jack is not one to talk about his feelings easily so why would he go out on a limb here and confess his feelings when she might just nod, thank him for his honesty and still go ahead and marry the cop! It's not like Jack had something to offer her other than a 'someday', like it had been for the past few years...

If Jack would have told her to kick the cop to the curb then that 'thing' would always stand between them if they got together later. Heck, Sam might even resent him (okay, she probably wouldn't but worst case scenario) for 'telling her what to do' about Pete if she and Jack still can't get together for a few years, she's too old to conceive by the time they're together and/or too much has happened for their relationship to work out and she's just basically wasted 15+ years pining after someone only to be disappointed and ending up alone again after making a go of it. I'm not saying it wouldn't be the same for Jack, but he's done the whole family thing before and, well, basically had a life once whereas Sam never really got further than a successful career and some failed relationships.

The proposal (heck, the entire relationship) was something for Sam and her alone to reject/accept.

i really don't see it this way...

yes, sam started this boyfriend mess, but jack added to the mess by not talking to her about 'what about us?'.

did jack feel sam had moved on b/c she picked up a boyfriend?

did sam feel jack had moved on b/c he never questioned her about their mutual feelings?

you can say that this was for sam to work out on her own, but maybe she felt 'on her own' already and decided to seek out some companionship...

i really think they *both* made some poor decisions and mistakes, and if they'd just sat down and TALKED...

@ s/j

[majorsal]

I don't think Sam would have resented Jack or any of the guys from talking her out of marrying . In fact, I think she was desperately looking for that because she didn't have the courage to do it alone. In a way, I think her friends abandoned her on this one. I know it's a tricky situation when you have a friend in a relationship with someone you know is not good for her, but from my own experience I've found it's better to speak up and be honest and then support them even if they continue making stupid decisions. That way you don't alienate them if it works out (rare) and when it all falls apart they know who they can really trust to be honest with them. All of the guys should have been more honest with her.

And Jack did aproach her in this case. He was worried about her and asked her what was wrong. So he opened the door and then was too much of a coward to step on through. If he didn't want to confront her feelings he should have asked Daniel to go talk with her.

My two cents.

*nods*

and sam was too much of a coward to just come out and ask him, 'do you still want me?'

[majorsal]

Yes, like I said she could ask his opinion as her friend (the same way Daniel or Teal'c might give his opinion on the proposal) but not in the way she did; she was clearly asking him what to do because of his feelings for her. That's like saying "hey, I've got this offer from a great guy so if you still want me in your life you have to trump him and you've got five minutes to convince me. Ready, set, go!"

maybe she was testing him to see if he cared for her 'more' than just a friend... and if she did, he showed her he was just her friend.

this is just an opinion, though. it's too open to interpretation to be sure. (which they did on purpose)

though when asked to joe mallozzi, he said sam was trying to get a rise out of him.

[majorsal]

I do agree with the highlighted bits - I really didn't like Sam in these episodes who behaved so unlike the Sam I know from the earlier seasons. Personally, I always thought she was asking Jack behind another man's ring to talk her out of accepting the proposal.

me too, b/c this was the sam/jack love story, and pete was the stand-in and only important to the story to get sam and jack together.

opinion only. (i love reading everyone's opinions, and sometimes i even change mine b/c of it)

[Ikorni]

me too, b/c this was the sam/jack love story, and pete was the stand-in and only important to the story to get sam and jack together.

opinion only. (i love reading everyone's opinions, and sometimes i even change mine b/c of it)

Nah, I didn't think Shanahan was important to the story but rather they added him in on AT's insistence. But well, what's done is done (to my unhappiness unfortunately). I personally loved the deliberate vagueness of Jack's answer, because I thought it more dignified than what Sam was doing at that moment.