Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Nynaeve506]

Petra, I have just made it to page 126 and read your list of 'unpopular opinions', and I just wanted to let you know that apart from 3 or 4 minor details, I agree with all of them. You're not alone!

P.S. I'm still hoping to catch up at some point and actually be able to join in the discussion.

I generally just skim No need to read everything (unless you want to). We're okay with people repeating things!

[hlndncr]

Just FYI, I have a midterm tomorrow, which is why I haven't posted my review of Space Race yet. I will get to it I promise. It's just going to be a little late.

Thanks for your patience.

[hlndncr]

For those who haven't yet heard, Cags husband, Charles, passed away suddenly yesterday.

((((((Cags))))))

My deepest condolences to you and your family at this difficult time. My love and prayers go with you.

[hlndncr]

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Summary
(Taken from GW Episode Guide)

Major Samantha Carter arrives at the S.G.C. and is notified that an alien visitor has arrived: Warrick, captain of the transport vessel Seberus. SG-1 helped him retake his ship from a band of criminals and return to his home planet of Hebridan last year ("Forsaken"). Warrick has an offer to make: in exchange for a chance to study his advanced ion propulsion engine, he would like one of Earth's naquadah generators to power his ship in a race.
Carter -- a bit of a thrill seeker in her spare time -- is intrigued. With permission from General Hammond she agrees to loan a naquadah reactor to help the ship win the race -- but only if she can come along as his co-pilot. Warrick agrees, and the two register for the Loop of Kon Garat. It is an annual competition whose winner is awarded a lucrative contract with Tech Con Group, Hebridan's leading corporation.
SG-1 visits Hebridan to prepare for the race. Two species live in an integrated society on this world: the native humans, brought to the planet thousands of years ago by the Goa'uld; and the Serrakin, a humanoid race (of which Warrick is a member) that saved the humans from Goa'uld enslavement generations ago. They live together, work together, and have had several generations to cross-breed.
Carter hooks up the naquadah generator to power the Seberus, which should give them a significant advantage over the other competitors. Teal'c stays with her to help, while Colonel O'Neill and Dr. Jackson go to speak with the local government. They soon negotiate free access to Hebridan's ion propulsion technology, leaving Sam free to enjoy herself in the race. Teal'c becomes acquainted with Eamon, Warrick's quirky engineer brother, who is responsible for the Seberus's systems.
Before the race begins, Warrick and Carter visit a parts shop to negotiate for a vital component. Warrick's credit debt is high, but he convinces the merchant to sell him a refurbished part. He needs it to win the race, Warrick explains, after which he will get the Tech Con contract and be able to repay his debts. Eamon, meanwhile, explains to Teal'c that his transport business is all that Warrick has left. When he returned from being stranded on another planet, Warrick found that his wife had remarried and his family was gone.
Carter and Warrick have a brief tussle with Jarlath, another pilot entering the race. He's a brash weapons specialist. Of the 10 or so competitors, Warrick is concerned primarily with Jarlath, Muirios (an expert human pilot), and La'el Montrose (a female pilot).
The no-rules race begins, and the ships speed into the first of four stages. A group of automated weapons drones begin chasing and firing at the racing vessels, testing their defense capabilities. A few ships don't make it through. At the second stage, the ships fly through the corona of Hebridan's sun, testing their shield strength. It is here that they learn that their ship has been sabotaged; the Seberus is crippled.
Carter and Warrick work feverishly to bypass the sabotaged component, rerouting power from the generator directly into the engines. As they get the ship underway and re-enter the race (in last place), Eamon and Teal'c investigate the sabotage. Eamon traces it to his supervisor at Tech Con Group, a human by the name of Del Tynan.
With Teal'c disguised in a Tech Con employee's uniform, the two enter the office building and break into Tynan's computer. They learn that he has sabotaged all the ships in the race except for Muirios', in order to help the pure-blooded human win the race and the lucrative contract. He is a member of a racist group who believe that the Serrakin have polluted the human race and virtually enslaved them all over again, and are no better than the Goa'uld.
Tynan holds Teal'c and Eamon at gunpoint, and signals Warrick on the Seberus. The ship is quickly gaining on the leaders. He tells Warrick and Carter to drop out of the race if they want to see Eamon and Teal'c again. They reluctantly comply. But when O'Neill and Jackson come looking for their friends, they are shown to Tynan's office by the head of Tech Con Group -- who is half-Serrakin himself. Tynan is apprehended, and the Seberus enters the race once more.
As the ship pulls into third place (behind Muirios and Montrose), they receive an automated distress signal from Jarlath. He has been unable to fix the sabotage done to his own ship, and reluctantly comes aboard the Seberus. As the finish line looms near, they know that they will never catch the cheating Muirios. But with Jarlath's expertise, they can disable Muirios' ship. As the two ships pass at a curve in the race course, Jarlath fires a pulse that disables Muirios' power systems. La'el Montrose takes the prize.
SG-1 returns home, happy to learn that Montrose has asked Warrick to be her co-pilot in working with Tech Con. Sam tells Daniel that in next year's race ... she's going to kick some butt.
Favorite Scene
Jack telling Sam it’s not necessary to take any chances, and she cuts him off when he shows concern about her safety because she’s having fun and she doesn’t want him to order her back.

Favorite Lines
T, you coming?
Major Carter has requested that I remain so that I may assist her.
She did? I did?
Indeed.
Right… yes, thank you.
I do not wish to disappoint Major Carter.
Yes… I know the feeling.

I am in your debt, Major Carter.
Indeed.

Generally
I enjoy this episode. Yes this is SG1 does pod racing (very popular storyline for several years after the new Star Wars, but then Lucas stole the idea from Ben Hur; so there is nothing new under the sun). I think it is light-hearted and fun and shows us a bit of that side of Sam, which we don’t see very often.

It is clearly a Sam episode as is the next one. This is definitely the blueprint for this season. We just had a couple of Daniel episodes; then we have two Sam episodes; next will be another Teal’c one. Some are more successful at giving a team feel while highlighting an individual member than others. I think this does it well. Sam has nice moments with each member of the team and then there is the scene in the hanger with everyone all together, which is really enjoyable (especially for all the touching and the shippiness , but more on that later ).

Daniel does get sidelined a little bit, but that’s OK with me. We’ve seen a lot of Daniel lately and he of course was not there the first time we met these people in Forsaken. This is something that wasn’t addressed directly, but again I don’t have a problem with it. In the opening scene Daniel was already there with Warrick when Sam comes in; so I just presume any introductions and explanations were made off camera. (Jonas absence is after all old information for the audience, even if it is new to this character; so going over it again would be wasting story time.) The issue was also sidestepped during the “news story” explaining how SG1 rescued the Seberus by including a picture of both Jonas and Daniel, a nice little callback and a good compromise to my mind.

I think we get another little callback to Jonas with Teal’c and his alien buddy (he does seem to pick them up). When Jack reminds him he’s not supposed to get caught by the bad guy I thought of him and Jonas going off on their own and getting caught in Cure.

As to the news and commercial interludes, I liked them. They get increasingly more outrageous as they go along (the temporal eatery is my favorite). It was an interesting way to show the progress of the race without having to show the whole race, and it gives us a glimpse into this culture that is very different from any we’ve seen in the series so far. It is big, advanced, and corporate. They are much more like us than the other technologically advanced races we’ve run into, and much more willing to share, which is a nice change.

I’m a little disappointed we weren’t shown more of a celtic culture, which was where the humans on this world originated. They did use celtic runic symbols on the TV segments, but a little more in the design and costume would have been nice. (OK, I admit it; I just wanted to see CJ in a kilt. He could definitely pull it off. Although what we know as a kilt is a modern invention of the 19th century.) The orange jump suits were outrageous, which is why I’m certain Teal’c kept the hat.

Of course I love how Teal’c gets out of going on the diplomatic tour.

And it’s a good thing he did because it allows him to help root out the bad guy. But I have to ask myself, why he was so desperate to stay behind? He’s usually very patient and sitting around watching Sam work on the space ship couldn’t have been any more interesting for him. I have to wonder if he was a little concerned for Sam. The last time she was left alone with someone from this planet she was taken down and tied up. Not everyone could have been happy about their presence there, even Eamon was a little hostile at first. I don’t think Teal’c was really concerned about Warrick and his brother, but I can see him being cautious, and while Sam can take care of herself she does get a little distracted when she gets a piece of interesting technology in front of her. It probably wouldn’t have been the best idea to leave her on her own on an alien planet, no matter how friendly the natives may seem. So maybe Teal’c’s motivations weren’t entirely selfish.

To Be Continued . . .

[hlndncr]

Sam and Jack
OK, now we get to the fun part. To me this episode is very shippy. They only have a couple of scenes together but both are full of shippy tidbits that demonstrate just how close and comfortable they are right now. They continue to feel very much like a couple.

I love the scene in the hanger for both its overt and subtle shippiness. When Eamon suggests sarcastically that Warrick can’t win the race without Sam she looks a little distressed like, “OK, no pressure.” Jack just gives her a look back that says, “Of course you can’t do it without her; she’s the best.”

Then we get him reading over her shoulder and teasing her about the tech manual. I get the feeling that he’s trying to keep her attention. He’s not ready for her to get lost in her world just yet; although I think he finds her tendency to do that quite endearing. He even puts his hand on her shoulder and keeps it there for a few seconds, trying to keep that connection to her.

And he does it again just before he leaves.

I love the subtle, casual touching. Jack does it here. Sam does it in the next episode. It’s very unconscious how they lean into each other, gravitate toward one another and touch lightly, not quite together but never completely apart. It’s very emblematic of their relationship at this point. Even though they are ignoring it (neither one ever acknowledges the touching) it is unmistakably there, and they don’t want to disturb it or further complicate it for fear of losing what they do have.

But we do have a tacit acknowledgment of Jack’s feelings for Sam in his exchange with Teal’c about disappointing Major Carter. Someone (I think Hedwig) recently mentioned on the appreciation thread that we talk a lot about how Sam was influenced by Jack but not the other way around. I think Jack’s admission that he doesn’t want to disappoint her either is one example of how Sam has affected him. Yes, he tosses it out there in a casual, joking manner (which is how Jack handles serious emotional stuff anyway), but I think he really does mean it. He wants Sam to admire and be proud of him, and he’s very conscious of not letting her down.

The other scene with them together is when he calls to tell her that they got the power generator to study so she doesn’t need to take any chances to win the race.

He knows her well and knows she doesn’t like to lose. We also get into a long running thing between the two of them, which is fun. At the heart of all those fishing invitations is Jack’s desire for her to relax and enjoy life a little (with him of course); so I think he’s quite amused to see her having a good time. While he’s a little concerned for her safety he likes seeing this side of her. She’s a lot more carefree than her usual focused, hard-working self. Their byplay is very flirtatious, and she definitely loses herself in the moment, even cutting him off when it looks like his concern might overrule his amusement.

This is not good officer behavior; this is boyfriend/girlfriend behavior. Like I’ve said before, if you were going to believe they were flaunting the regs (which I don’t, but I know some do), this would be the time when I would find that interpretation most believable because the tension isn’t there like it was earlier on, but the closeness and the connection is. Their relationship is in a good place right now, which is why I shudder for the fall that is coming.

[Rachel500]

Space Race

Generally

Not a fan. But I like Eamon and I love the Eamon and Teal'c double act.

Sam and Jack

I like that actually we get to see Sam's "fun" side; that she gets to go play (although there is a serious danger element).

I also think Teal'c's motives for getting out of the diplomacy are in part to unobtrusively stay with Sam and watch her six. In fact, I think all 3 men are worried about her in their own way; Teal'c stays behind; Daniel's taken aback by her 'gung-ho' atttitude toward the race enough to call her on it although he accepts her reply that she's having fun; and even Jack seems focused on the diplomacy to get her what she wants so she doesn't have to risk her life for it and to, as he says, not to disappoint.

There is some nice Sam/Jack moments which hlndncr highlighted. I love the moment in the hangar.

[Lilac736]

Sam and Jack

I like that actually we get to see Sam's "fun" side; that she gets to go play (although there is a serious danger element).

I like that too. She really is an adrenalin junkie!
My favourite non shippy moment is the scene with Daniel, Jack and the receptionist at Tech Con. Hilarious.

[hedwig]

I like that too. She really is an adrenalin junkie!
My favourite non shippy moment is the scene with Daniel, Jack and the receptionist at Tech Con. Hilarious.

The only relationship this has to the episode is that it's in the episode, and that is that one of the advertiser names when the announcers were talking, was "Corso" something or other, which I thought was a tiny bit interesting. Wonder if these are the same Corsos that Aiden came from, and what they thought of their criminal relative.

[hlndncr]

I like that too. She really is an adrenalin junkie!
My favourite non shippy moment is the scene with Daniel, Jack and the receptionist at Tech Con. Hilarious.

Yes, who wouldn't do whatever Jack wanted if he smiled at you like that?

[Lilac736]

Yes, who wouldn't do whatever Jack wanted if he smiled at you like that?

Exactly

[Lucycat]

Great comments and observations, hlnclr!

For me, Space Race is not one of my favorite episodes. Upon re-watching, it's still not. I think it's because Space Race has gone a bit over the line into CAMP, especially with those news-casters. Stargate has arrogant villains who wear ridiculous Egyptian outfits, it has heroes who rarely get hurt after facing off against a battalion of Jaffa, and it has cute little naked aliens with big eyes and toothpick legs. But it's doesn't get campy, imo.

When the bad guy was caught in the end, I though he was going to say, "I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those pesky aliens!" (a-la Scooby doo)

Would the Air Force let their top-notch expert on the Stargate risk her life on such a frivolous activity? For a look at the alien engine design? When Warrick says the race is dangerous, Sam says they risk their lives going through the Stargate everyday. But that's for defending Earth and fighting the Goul'd and Replicators, not for the fun of it and so their old ally can get a job. Yes, we know that Sam is an adrenaline junkie, and both Daniel and Jack had fun calling her on it during the episode, but I still don't like to think Sam is so reckless.

As soon as Warrick's brother spoke, I could tell it was the actor who played Fifth. It's the voice, can't mask that behind the makeup! He did a good job with the character... he and Tealc reminded me of Laurel and Hardy!

There was some great Sam & Jack scenes and the lots of "non-regulation" touching!


A cute scene with Sam and Tealc, too. "Indeed!"

And the special effect were visually stunning. Kudos to those visual effects guys!!

[Akamaimom]

For those who haven't yet heard, Cags husband, Charles, passed away suddenly yesterday.

((((((Cags))))))

My deepest condolences to you and your family at this difficult time. My love and prayers go with you.

I'm so sorry! Love and prayers coming from here, too.

[Lilac736]

Would the Air Force let their top-notch expert on the Stargate risk her life on such a frivolous activity? For a look at the alien engine design? When Warrick says the race is dangerous, Sam says they risk their lives going through the Stargate everyday. But that's for defending Earth and fighting the Goul'd and Replicators, not for the fun of it and so their old ally can get a job. Yes, we know that Sam is an adrenaline junkie, and both Daniel and Jack had fun calling her on it during the episode, but I still don't like to think Sam is so reckless.

Good point. But don't you think this applies to a lot of other episodes too? I've been dicussing this with my friends before. Should/would the Air Force endanger their indispensable scientists in front-line teams?

[hedwig]

Good point. But don't you think this applies to a lot of other episodes too? I've been dicussing this with my friends before. Should/would the Air Force endanger their indispensable scientists in front-line teams?

Exactly. Especially after how many times they've been seriously injured, gone missing, presumed dead, etc. After awhile, one would think the Air Force would say "enough", and reassign them to earthbound jobs where there's less likelihood of them getting injured or killed.

[Aveo_amacus]

Exactly. Especially after how many times they've been seriously injured, gone missing, presumed dead, etc. After awhile, one would think the Air Force would say "enough", and reassign them to earthbound jobs where there's less likelihood of them getting injured or killed.

But then couldn't you also apply that to soldiers???!!? They're all trained - Jack's a pilot, a great strategist, etc. That takes a lot of time and money to be trained to do all the things he - and other soldiers - can do, not that different to the scientists who have studied to become experts at their particular science

Part of the deal with serving at the SGC is it's dangerous going offworld, these guys know that, but it's what they've trained and/or studies for it's why they're there