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Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread
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Originally posted by Conn8d View PostI also think it'd be good to join the rewatch, for similar resasons to hlndncr. Maybe to offset the brisk pace of the rewatch we could have more focused and pointed discussions in here on the shippiest episodes. That way if people have a busy week, they can choose to only watch one or two episodes per week, and still join the discussions? just an ideasigpic
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Originally posted by muziqaz View PostHm, it might be my brain farting or just a late night, but it seems I have no idea how to send a PM in this forum :/ Cannot find a way in users profile :/
http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/5...or-new-members
and
http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/1...-(for-newbies)
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Playing catch-up:
Laira
I must say that I absolutely can't agree with fems' post. IMO it unnecessarily makes a villain out of Laira, but of course we are both entitled to our opinions, and that's fine. I'd like to briefly comment on just 2 things:
Originally posted by fems View PostI thought Laira was manipulative and plotting the best way to get Jack in the sack. I'm not sure if I agree with Petra about Jack being attracted to her from the beginning. In my opinion, she was one of the alien contacts with whom he had to negotiate a deal (or if she wasn't an important village leader, some sort of guide then) with or a treaty. He thought she was nice and was probably enjoying her friendship as well as looking forward to the "fire rain", which she could tell them more about. That's basically all we see, although they seem to have been there for a few days already.
On a related note, I just don't understand why for some shippers Jack being attracted to other women or Sam being attracted to other guys is a problem. I always thought it worked in favour of our 'ship, because at the end Sam and Jack choose each other and they do so knowing that nobody else comes even close and so it's their choice and not lack of other options for example. Without other love interests in the series they (and we, the shippers) wouldn't have had that certainty. But then, my opinions are strange anyway.
She hands him the shirt she made for her husband and just ignores him and mentions the harvest when he suggests the gate could be just buried. Like she doesn't even care (after all, a lot of her people are gone but she still has her house, her son and now Jack).
SG-1 and S/J post-series/movies
Originally posted by hlndncr View PostAny thoughts on what her position might have been? She was clearly still going off-world at least occasionally, and it seemed she had something to do with getting The Hammond up and running. I think she may have also been assisting Jack with the creation and establishment of the Homeworld Command.
Btw, has Mitchell been promoted to full bird as well? I try to forget anything post season 8, so I don’t remember.
We don’t know why Landry was in DC. I like to think Jack is preparing for his eventual, but not too distant, retirement.
Personally, I was not happy with how either Jack or Sam’s characters were portrayed on SGU, but that is a discussion for another time and place. On the positive side I will say that it was nice to see some interaction between them (albeit long-distance and largely formal). And we do get a peak on how their relationship has progressed. Jack refers to Sam easily and frequently. He speaks highly of her leadership and acknowledges her brilliance. You can certainly sense the fondness between them.
Mitchell remains the leader of a newly constituted SG-1 for now. (...)
He may eventually become the leader of the SGC as he continues to mellow and develop and demonstrate better judgment.
I’d love to see Dixon in command of the SGC someday, or better yet, Reynolds. He seemed to be Jack’s 2IC in season 8 and given his stint with Area 51 he probably has experience with scientists and paperwork, so he’d be an ideal candidate IMO.
I could see Mitchell leading new SG-1 for a few years, hopefully maturing enough to realize he doesn’t have potential to truly lead on a big scale like Jack, Sam or Reynolds and then either go back to F-302 program or to the AF Academy to train new recruits. Or even possibly retiring and going back to Kansas with that Amy girl from The Bounty.
Or with Vala. I’ve read a few awesome Vala/Cam fics and since then I can definitely see them as an item.
Perhaps that new SG-1 includes at least one old face—Jonas. (..)
Therefore, I would posit that Jonas finally left his home world and returned to earth and SGC where he could continue his exploration of the galaxy.
Daniel for me is the hardest. I don’t see him continuing on SG-1. Personally, I think he would like to be closer to Jack and Sam. They are his closest family, and frankly they need him too. Maybe Jack made him a special diplomatic and cultural advisor for all intra- and inter- galactic relations, based in DC. I can see him being the one who keeps an eye on the big picture of earth’s role in the galaxy.
. . . They All Live Happily Ever After.
So what do you think?
I guess ‘marriage with kids’ ending is too sugary for my taste and a bit OOC for them.
Originally posted by hlndncr View PostOT Daniel and Vala:
Now as to Sam and Jack, if they didn't have babies of their own, I don't personally see them adopting. But I can see them being very happy and involved grandparents to Cassie's kids.
Thread's future
As for the future of the thread, personally I’ll vote for option 2 and/or 4. I’m one of the few folks who participated in the rewatch/ discussion from the start, so I’m not interested in doing it all over again. But then, I don’t post nearly as much as I used to anyway.
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Originally posted by Petra View PostPlaying catch-up:
Laira
IMO Jack clearly treated Laira in a very different way he usually treats other female allies/contacts/leaders whom he needs on his side. Just think how he treated Garshaw for example. So I can't buy this explanation.
Other than Garshaw and Laira (and Hathor, but she doesn't count), I can only recall Kynthia as one of the female aliens he had a lot of interaction with(up to that point) and we all know how that went... Well, Lya and Catherine perhaps, but he was also simply very nice to them. Linea was more out of necessity because of their imprisonment. Shyla wasn't the leader, her father was (and she only had eyes for Daniel anyway). He didn't have a lot of interaction with Gairwyn since he and Teal'c were beamed away by Thor's Hammer. There wasn't a lot of interaction with La Moor, because of the stolen device. Nirrti was an enemy, so no friendly interaction with her. AU Samantha Carter, well, that kinda speaks for itself.
So there isn't really anything comparable to the way he interacted with Laira in my opinion.
Originally posted by Petra View Post
Or alternatively she's a good leader who cares about her people and realises that with their numbers so severely diminished they need to have an early start and focus all their attention on thier survival, on getting food and preparing for winter, instead od wasting time and resources to ponder possibilities of getting the rest of their people back (back to the ruined village, ruined crops etc., so in a word back to no resources to sustain hypothetical rescuees anyway). There will be time for mourning after they survive tough times ahead.
Originally posted by Petra View PostSG-1 and S/J post-series/movies
I don’t see why would she have been needed in DC? Jack didn’t create HWS, Hammond had done it, so it’s not like Jack needed help with the set-up.
Originally posted by Petra View PostLt Col Davies (I refuse to think he’s still a Major)...
Originally posted by Petra View PostBtw, has Mitchell been promoted to full bird as well? I try to forget anything post season 8, so I don’t remember.
Originally posted by Petra View PostOh boy, I hope not. Apart from the fact that I don’t think Jack’s ready to retire at all...
Originally posted by Petra View PostPersonally, I was thrilled with Jack and Sam’s portrayal on SGU.Originally posted by Petra View PostOh no. Mitchell in command of SGC + Landry in command of HWS = Earth no moreOriginally posted by Petra View PostI’d love to see Dixon in command of the SGC someday, or better yet, Reynolds.
Originally posted by Petra View PostOr even possibly retiring and going back to Kansas with that Amy girl from The Bounty.Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.
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Originally posted by hlndncr View PostSam & Jack
When we see Sam again in EatG I would have preferred to see her with an SGC patch (like Jack wore when he was promoted) or none at all (like Jack in S10) rather than an SG-1 patch because I just can’t see her going back to play second fiddle to Mitchell after being in command of Atlantis. I even think command of SG-1 would be a step backwards. Not to mention that after a year in separate galaxies I would think that she and Jack would at least try to get her a posting in DC. So in my mind the SG-1 patch is just an honorary thing.
I would note that Sam was wearing earrings with her BDUs, which she has never done before. It’s a small little touch that makes her look just a little softer and a little more feminine. I ascribe that to Jack’s influence. For me it’s a small demonstration of the complete woman (not just soldier and scientist) coming through. Maybe the earrings were even a present from Jack—for their anniversary perhaps?
Vala is the other easy one for me because I never saw her sticking around. I think she realized her place was with Tomin and that she could play an important role in helping the people of the Ori galaxy find their way after the demise of their oppressive false gods. I think eventually Vala and Tomin will unite the people of the galaxy in a peaceful quest for individual enlightenment and they will become great and legendary leaders. (See I still wish good things for Vala, just not with Daniel.)
Mitchell . . . may eventually become the leader of the SGC as he continues to mellow and develop and demonstrate better judgment.
Perhaps that new SG-1 includes at least one old face—Jonas. Jonas reluctantly left the SGC to assist with the rebuilding of his home world after the Goa’uld attack. I don’t think he was ever happy in this role. He had seen a wider universe and he was not particularly welcomed back by his own people. I imagine he helped his people resist the Ori before and after the invasion. I think once the Ori were defeated he did his part to again rebuild, which appears to have been largely successful. However, earth seems to have a strained and suspicious relationship with Langera, and Jonas doesn’t appear to have a role in the current government. Therefore, I would posit that Jonas finally left his home world and returned to earth and SGC where he could continue his exploration of the galaxy.
Daniel for me is the hardest. I don’t see him continuing on SG-1. Personally, I think he would like to be closer to Jack and Sam. They are his closest family, and frankly they need him too. Maybe Jack made him a special diplomatic and cultural advisor for all intra- and inter- galactic relations, based in DC. I can see him being the one who keeps an eye on the big picture of earth’s role in the galaxy.
Sam is based in DC and spends a decent amount of time there since The Hammond’s home port is earth, and she would return to port often between various missions. But I don’t see The Hammond as a long-term assignment. I think with her knowledge and experience soon she will be given greater command responsibilities that will require her to largely remain on earth.
I think Jack will retire once Sam leaves The Hammond. But I don’t think the Stargate Program will entirely let him go. He will continue to play a consulting and training role.
In my world Jack and Sam have been married for some time and have a home they share in DC. They visit the cabin and go fishing as often as they can get away from their extensive responsibilities. I would love to see them have a child, and I think it is still possible although perhaps not probable. But since I’m free to imagine any scenario I want I will believe that sometime soon they have a baby girl and with their crazy extended SG-1 family, . . .
Plus, as was said elsewhere, if Cassie has children, Sam and Jack would probably spoil them rotten as their "grandparents".
. . . They All Live Happily Ever After.
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Originally posted by Petra View PostBtw, has Mitchell been promoted to full bird as well? I try to forget anything post season 8, so I don’t remember.
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Playing catch-up too, so I'm going to borrow your post if you don't mind.
Originally posted by Petra View PostPlaying catch-up:
On a related note, I just don't understand why for some shippers Jack being attracted to other women or Sam being attracted to other guys is a problem. I always thought it worked in favour of our 'ship, because at the end Sam and Jack choose each other and they do so knowing that nobody else comes even close and so it's their choice and not lack of other options for example. Without other love interests in the series they (and we, the shippers) wouldn't have had that certainty. But then, my opinions are strange anyway.
While as a non-shipper Sam/Jack together was never really an ultimate end point for their relationship, I prefer the idea that, as you said, they came together in the end by choice and not because no one else was ever interested in them, or they were never interested in anyone else.
SG-1 and S/J post-series/movies
While I agree that Sam’s SG-1 patch in EatG must have been an honorary thing (there’s no freaking way she’d go back to co-commanding :rollseyes: 3 civilians after having been in command of hundreds of civilians and military) I don’t see why would she have been needed in DC? Jack didn’t create HWS, Hammond had done it, so it’s not like Jack needed help with the set-up. And even if he did, administration staff from the Pentagon like Lt Col Davies (I refuse to think he’s still a Major) was far more likely to be able to help than Sam. So in my mind, Sam’s time was taken up mainly by The Hammond, with occasional trips off-world or to Area 51 when her specific skills and expertise were needed.
Btw, has Mitchell been promoted to full bird as well? I try to forget anything post season 8, so I don’t remember.
Oh boy, I hope not. Apart from the fact that I don’t think Jack’s ready to retire at all, I’d hate to see Landry as his successor. That would be a recipe for disaster, since Landry is notorious for making bad calls and screwing everything up, IMO. *shudders*
Personally, I was thrilled with Jack and Sam’s portrayal on SGU. Sure, I would have loved more screentime for them, both separately and *together*, but it wasn’t their show so I’m trying to be happy with what I got. I like the fact that they both remained so professional, but at the same time their closeness was evident (well, to me anyway ). And he called her “Sam” for the first time since season 2 (which was the last season of their comfortable friendship without those pesky feelings and UST complicating everything, IMO ) so honestly, what more would I want? Okay, okay, a kiss would be awesome, but still…”Sam” is better than nothing.
re the thread, the GW's rewatch schedule is going to be much to fast for me, and I've doing this rewatch since S4, so I'll probably just chime in every once in a while as I've been doing recently.
And I'd like to again thank all you shippers for tolerating and humoring a non-shipper like me all these months. I'm still a die-hard non-shipper, but it's been fun exploring the Sam/Jack relationship with all of you. As a treat, only the 2nd time I've ever posted this icon:
sigpic
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Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View PostThe odd thing about that is that, IIRC, Continuum ends with Mitchell as a Lt. Colonel and the character doesn't make another appearance or even mention on any Stargate show. The suggestion that he and Sam were promoted at the same time came from JM's blog, so personally since we never saw him on screen with eagles I'm inclined to think that canon-wise he hasn't been promoted yet.
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Originally posted by Petra View PostPlaying catch-up:
SG-1 and S/J post-series/movies
While I agree that Sam’s SG-1 patch in EatG must have been an honorary thing (there’s no freaking way she’d go back to co-commanding :rollseyes: 3 civilians after having been in command of hundreds of civilians and military) I don’t see why would she have been needed in DC? Jack didn’t create HWS, Hammond had done it, so it’s not like Jack needed help with the set-up. And even if he did, administration staff from the Pentagon like Lt Col Davies (I refuse to think he’s still a Major) was far more likely to be able to help than Sam. So in my mind, Sam’s time was taken up mainly by The Hammond, with occasional trips off-world or to Area 51 when her specific skills and expertise were needed.
Btw, has Mitchell been promoted to full bird as well? I try to forget anything post season 8, so I don’t remember.
Oh boy, I hope not. Apart from the fact that I don’t think Jack’s ready to retire at all, I’d hate to see Landry as his successor. That would be a recipe for disaster, since Landry is notorious for making bad calls and screwing everything up, IMO. *shudders*
I have no problem with Landry. I don't know who would be qualified to succeed Jack, except maybe Vidrine. Now that's a shudder from me. Even if Landry weren't taking over, he would probably still be included in succession plans.
Personally, I was thrilled with Jack and Sam’s portrayal on SGU. Sure, I would have loved more screentime for them, both separately and *together*, but it wasn’t their show so I’m trying to be happy with what I got. I like the fact that they both remained so professional, but at the same time their closeness was evident (well, to me anyway ). And he called her “Sam” for the first time since season 2 (which was the last season of their comfortable friendship without those pesky feelings and UST complicating everything, IMO ) so honestly, what more would I want? Okay, okay, a kiss would be awesome, but still…”Sam” is better than nothing.
Oh no. Mitchell in command of SGC + Landry in command of HWS = Earth no more
I’d love to see Dixon in command of the SGC someday, or better yet, Reynolds. He seemed to be Jack’s 2IC in season 8 and given his stint with Area 51 he probably has experience with scientists and paperwork, so he’d be an ideal candidate IMO.
I could see Mitchell leading new SG-1 for a few years, hopefully maturing enough to realize he doesn’t have potential to truly lead on a big scale like Jack, Sam or Reynolds and then either go back to F-302 program or to the AF Academy to train new recruits. Or even possibly retiring and going back to Kansas with that Amy girl from The Bounty.
Or with Vala. I’ve read a few awesome Vala/Cam fics and since then I can definitely see them as an item.
I don't see Cam with Vala. I think for many that conclusion is influenced by their Farscape characters. I'm not saying that includes you, it's just been my observation.
Oh, that’s such a lovely thought, Jonas back on SG-1. *hugs hlndncr* I had always thought that his planet survived the Ori invasion thanks to him (for once Mallozzi had a good idea ) and then he helped to rebuild it, eventually rising to some really high honours and position on Kelowna. However, after the events of Seizure this doesn’t seem likely at all, so in my mind after rebuilding Kelowna he came back to the SGC and to his friends. Ha, in fact this would work perfectly as an explanation of Jack’s actions in Seizure as well, so that’s my official version of events from now on.
I agree with you re Vala and Teal’c. In fact I refuse to believe that T is still on SG-1 because honestly, after everything he accomplished, that would be so below him. As for Daniel, I think he’d jump on the chance to further explore Atlantis, so I see him spending all his time there, maybe with occasional stint in Washington or off-world if Jack or Sam needed a trusted, experienced translator, archeologist and/or diplomat. And I think that from the lot of them, Daniel is most likely to stay on SG-1 and keep exploring the galaxy, once he’s finished with Atlantis.
I know that I’m in minority here, but personally while I don’t have any doubts that Sam and Jack are together, I don’t see them married. I also can’t see them deciding to have kids, for a myriad of reasons, or retiring any time soon. They are both workaholics after all. In my mind they continue to successfully lead and command HWS and The Hammond, spending every free moment together, proud of each other and happy.
I guess ‘marriage with kids’ ending is too sugary for my taste and a bit OOC for them.sigpic
My Art. My Fanfic.
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It looks like the general consensus for now is to join with the GateWorld rewatch and add our shippy thoughts here.
So this week is the Prewatch for Stargate the Movie. No Jack and Sam, but if you have an shippy thoughts this will prove just how thick your shippy glasses really are.
Next week (August 1-7) officially begins the rewatch with the first five episodes of Season 1:
Children of the Gods
The Enemy Within
Emancipation
The Broca Divide
The First Commandmentsigpic
My Art. My Fanfic.
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Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
OK, I don't understand how marriage is OOC for either of them. Jack was married and I don't see any evidence that he's soured on it completely, and Sam clearly isn't opposed to marriage on principle because she keeps trying to get married--to the wrong people. And for me marriage not only conforms to their characters and my personal preference, it also definitively eliminates the CoC/Frat Regs issues, which I think they would factor into their decision.sally
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Originally posted by hlndncr View PostOK, I don't understand how marriage is OOC for either of them. Jack was married and I don't see any evidence that he's soured on it completely, and Sam clearly isn't opposed to marriage on principle because she keeps trying to get married--to the wrong people. And for me marriage not only conforms to their characters and my personal preference, it also definitively eliminates the CoC/Frat Regs issues, which I think they would factor into their decision.
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Originally posted by Kate1013 View PostWhile I agree with this to a certain degree, it's the timing of them getting married that bugs me. While I understand the issue with the frat regs, and I do believe they got together after Threads, many people believe they got married straight after - or before she went back to the SGC. For me this is OOC for both of them. At this point in their lives they'd only known each other as Sir and Carter, and Sam has just ended an intense and upsetting engagment. I simply cannot see Sam jumping straight into a marriage like that without some time for them to explore their relationship with each other. And I can't see Jack letting her either. No matter how much they love each other - or think how much they love each other, because at that point I would imagine it would be very hard to go from imagining yourself with someone to suddenly being allowed to be with them. This is why, in my SG world, I feel they wouldn't get married until some time later.
While I understand your reasoning, I find it harder to believe they would screw the frat regs. After all, Sam is a very by-the-book officer and while Jack takes some liberty with certain orders, he's also professed his love for the air force and I don't think he'd 'endanger' Sam by starting a relationship with her while they are in the same chain of command (which is after Sam returns to the SGC, or even while she's at Area 51 since she was heading up Stargate R&D and that might directly report to HWS). It would ruin nearly ten years of hard work for Sam trying to prove herself in the military/SGC, since she's been under Jack's command from the start and he would have recommended her for promotions to Hammond (and even promoted her himself in season 8).Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.
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Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View PostThe odd thing about that is that, IIRC, Continuum ends with Mitchell as a Lt. Colonel and the character doesn't make another appearance or even mention on any Stargate show. The suggestion that he and Sam were promoted at the same time came from JM's blog, so personally since we never saw him on screen with eagles I'm inclined to think that canon-wise he hasn't been promoted yet.Originally posted by hedwig View PostBecause of the timing when Continuum was filmed, the credits that were shown were incorrect. I believe in an interview that Brad Wright said that both Sam and Mitchell were full bird Colonels during the events of Continuum. Sam, of course, for sure was a full bird Colonel, since Continuum took place after her stint on Atlantis. By the time anyone realized that Cam wasn't listed as a Colonel, it was too late to fix it in the credits.
In my personal universe has Cam's promotion to full colonel coming just before the events of Continuum.No Sam w/o a Jack and no Jack w/o a Sam.
It's like and immutable law of the multiverse.
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