Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Rachel500]

Threads

Josi, I wish I could green you but I can't - that was an awesome review!

Generally

I don't have much to add to Josi's comments. I have to admit that I love Threads as an episode because in many ways it is the finale of the S1-S8 version of the TV series in that it ties up all major storylines and brings the characters full circle in terms of their character arcs.

Teal'c - I love that Teal'c is named Teal'c of the Tau'ri in Threads - making the distinction between Teal'c of Chulak who was the First Prime of Apophis and the Jaffa he has since become in rebelling against Apophis and leading his people to freedom. But there is that sense that the Jaffa have a long way to go to rebuild and become a functioning government.

Daniel - I love that Daniel is still being Daniel and talking people into doing what is right. In the movie he does it with Jack, here he does it with Oma. Moreover, he learns fully why he returned from Ascension and confirms that his place is not among the Ascended.

Sam and Jack

Sam and Jacob: Actually, for me much of Sam's journey is the one she makes with her Dad. Because it's a compare and contrast with the last time Jacob knew he was dying in Secrets. Then, all he wanted was for his daughter to be happy - and that hasn't changed. What has changed is how Jacob approaches the situation. Then, he interfered and tried to force her into a job he believed was her dream - his focus was on her professional happiness and his MO was force. Here, Jacob's entire approach to Pete is one of understanding that deep down he wasn't the right person for Sam and that he didn't make her happy no matter what she said out loud. While he does interfere a little (deliberately raising the subject of the flowers), he otherwise tries the softly-softly approach; he is non-commital when they discuss Pete in the mess and only tries persuasion to make Sam see that she shouldn't let things (the Air Force) stand in her way; she can still be happy and have everything she wants. His concern is for her personal happiness on all levels. Undoubtedly some of that is to do with Sam's personal journey from being mainly career focused when we meet her to her exploring her personal life over S7/8.

Sam and Pete: I think throughout it's clear that she's pretending everything is fine when it's not. And the break-up conversation shows that Pete was aware on some level that something was wrong (that she had doubts or baggage that prevented her from moving forward) but that he had hoped her agreement to be married had signalled the end of that. Personally, I think Pete acts very kindly in the break-up because he has to be hurting a lot. And I think Sam feels incredibly guilty and wishes he wasn't so kind. I do actually think the moment she sees the house it's over for her. For me, she's been having doubts since RepliCarter forced some blunt truths on her, the knowledge that her father doesn't wholly approve of Pete, her own reticence in getting involved with organising her wedding...I think the house is the proverbial straw. So by the time she ends up in Jack's back-yard, I think Sam had already concluded she was making a mistake marrying Pete. For me, Sam went there to say: I'm not marrying Pete, I still love you and I need to know how you feel about me.

Jack and Kerry: I don't think the regs apply since Kerry is still effectively a CIA agent and is performing a joint investigation into the Trust/Russia/Kinsey situation. While Jack is ostensibly one of Kerry's stakeholders, he's not formally her boss and their agreement that their relationship won't affect the job presumably took care of any conflict in that regard for both of them. I do think Jack keeps it secret both because he doesn't want to be the topic of gossip and because he doesn't want Sam in particular to know. On a friendship level he could have informed Sam when Sam spots Kerry in his office because just as a friend of 7 years plus it could be argued that Sam didn't deserve to be lumped in with the rest of the SGC. Kerry shows class in dumping Jack when she realises where his heart truly lies and shows security in herself as a person in determining that she deserves better than to be someone's second choice.

Sam and Jack: Yes, I love the always scene and for me it's the scene that says both of them have stopped hiding behind their fears and have acknowledged openly for the first time since D&C that they love each other; and I love that they go fishing at the end. For me, the implicit message in Threads is that they love each other and will find a way to get together.

[Akamaimom]

I don't have much time to figure out a quote here, but regarding Kerry's comments about she and Jack being good together. . . I have always thought she was talking about them being well-matched physically--you know--intimately. And it is obvious by how comfortable she is in Jack's house that they have been spending a lot of time together. We don't really know how much real time has passed between CJ and Threads, so it's possible that they have been dating for several weeks. And might it also be possible that Jack was prevaricating to Sam on the phone in CJ that he was meeting Kerry for the first time?

[josiane]

Teal'c - I love that Teal'c is named Teal'c of the Tau'ri in Threads - making the distinction between Teal'c of Chulak who was the First Prime of Apophis and the Jaffa he has since become in rebelling against Apophis and leading his people to freedom. But there is that sense that the Jaffa have a long way to go to rebuild and become a functioning government.

Oh great point - you know, I hadn't even caught that, but that's a really nice distinction.

Sam and Jacob: Actually, for me much of Sam's journey is the one she makes with her Dad. Because it's a compare and contrast with the last time Jacob knew he was dying in Secrets. Then, all he wanted was for his daughter to be happy - and that hasn't changed. What has changed is how Jacob approaches the situation. Then, he interfered and tried to force her into a job he believed was her dream - his focus was on her professional happiness and his MO was force. Here, Jacob's entire approach to Pete is one of understanding that deep down he wasn't the right person for Sam and that he didn't make her happy no matter what she said out loud. While he does interfere a little (deliberately raising the subject of the flowers), he otherwise tries the softly-softly approach; he is non-commital when they discuss Pete in the mess and only tries persuasion to make Sam see that she shouldn't let things (the Air Force) stand in her way; she can still be happy and have everything she wants. His concern is for her personal happiness on all levels. Undoubtedly some of that is to do with Sam's personal journey from being mainly career focused when we meet her to her exploring her personal life over S7/8.

And that's a nice comparison too. And one of the main reasons that really, narratively, Jacob had to die in order to bring Sam's story to a close. Sam's personal journey is so tied up with both of these men, and the pivotal conversations in both Grace and Threads are with them, one after the other, so it kind of feels balanced to bring her to the end of her relationship with Jacob at the same time as start her relationship with Jack. Symbolically it's almost like Jacob gives her away to Jack, as in a wedding.

[Aveo_amacus]

Alas I have no green, but some excellent points/reviews

I've often wondered why Selmak didn't give Jacob a mental smack in the head and tell him to be more direct with Sam about what he was trying to tell her, since it didn't seem to be getting across to her. Love to have heard that sort of conversation between Selmak and Jacob.

Because he was in a coma: Jacob tells Sam that he slipped into a coma just after they activated the weapon on Dakara - Jacob grabs is head in RII
Re the flower scene, Jacob is trying to get his message across to Sam "If you don't want to *pick* flowers do your really want to *marry* this guy"

Whilst I obviously think Sam's feelings for Jack are part of the reason for her break-up with Pete, I do think that *Pete* also has a lot to do with it! and as Rachel says, she's been having second thoughts for a while but when she finally sees the house it hits her that she can't marry *him* (can I just say; how on *Earth* does Pete think that it's alright to buy a house without his fiancee???)
As in, regardless of her feelings for Jack - or rather his feelings for her - she knows that marrying Pete isn't the right thing. So for Sam's realisation (whilst the jealousy (if you think it's there) at the beginning with Jack/Kerry in his office may motivate) that Jack's in a relationship or not is immaterial for her ending hers

[hedwig]

Because he was in a coma: Jacob tells Sam that he slipped into a coma just after they activated the weapon on Dakara - Jacob grabs is head in RII
Re the flower scene, Jacob is trying to get his message across to Sam "If you don't want to *pick* flowers do your really want to *marry* this guy"

Yes, I'm well aware that Selmac was in a coma, and what the scene in Reckoning was about when he grabbed his head. I should have clarified that I didn't mean at that specific time. Neither he nor anyone else ever specifically addresses an issue head on. They are always vague and unclear about what they are trying to convey (IMO), and I simply thought it would be nice to have somebody just come right out and clearly say what they mean.

Plus, it also means Jacob lied to Sam about how Selmac felt about Pete, since Selmac was already in a coma at that time and never actually met Pete.

And I'm also quite aware of what was going on in the flower scene. It doesn't change the fact that I thought it was rather rude (and sort of mean spirited) to put Sam on the spot like that in front of other people, and I felt like Jack was rather enjoying the little scene between father and daughter - all at Sam's expense.

[majorsal]

And that's a nice comparison too. And one of the main reasons that really, narratively, Jacob had to die in order to bring Sam's story to a close. Sam's personal journey is so tied up with both of these men, and the pivotal conversations in both Grace and Threads are with them, one after the other, so it kind of feels balanced to bring her to the end of her relationship with Jacob at the same time as start her relationship with Jack. Symbolically it's almost like Jacob gives her away to Jack, as in a wedding.

woah...

wonderful insight.

[Pol]

cont again...

Brava. Nicely done. An absolute treatise on story-arc and character flow.

Well done.

[Pol]

Yes, I'm well aware that Selmac was in a coma, and what the scene in Reckoning was about when he grabbed his head. I should have clarified that I didn't mean at that specific time. Neither he nor anyone else ever specifically addresses an issue head on. They are always vague and unclear about what they are trying to convey (IMO), and I simply thought it would be nice to have somebody just come right out and clearly say what they mean.

Plus, it also means Jacob lied to Sam about how Selmac felt about Pete, since Selmac was already in a coma at that time and never actually met Pete.

And I'm also quite aware of what was going on in the flower scene. It doesn't change the fact that I thought it was rather rude (and sort of mean spirited) to put Sam on the spot like that in front of other people, and I felt like Jack was rather enjoying the little scene between father and daughter - all at Sam's expense.

I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying you don't have a right to your feeling that. I always felt a bit like you do when someone in your charge (kid, someone else) *really* wanted something and then when they got it you knew they were just too stubborn to admit it wasn't what they'd expected it to be. Sort of, 'you made your bed, now...' kind of thing.

Not mean, but...you know he's hurting, so there's that tiny (and childish) need to hurt back.

Does that make sense?

[iiradned]

I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying you don't have a right to your feeling that. I always felt a bit like you do when someone in your charge (kid, someone else) *really* wanted something and then when they got it you knew they were just too stubborn to admit it wasn't what they'd expected it to be. Sort of, 'you made your bed, now...' kind of thing.

Not mean, but...you know he's hurting, so there's that tiny (and childish) need to hurt back.

Does that make sense?

Does to me.

[Lucycat]

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Synopsis
The first part of season eight finale opens with the death of iconic Stargate character, Catherine Langford. She bequeaths Daniel her entire collection, including a book that shows RA in the possession of a Zero Point Module. A plan is devised to use the Ancient Ship found on Mayborne's planet to go back in time to retrieve it. With O'neill at the helm, SG-1 goes back to Ancient Egypt and successfully retrieves the ZPM. However, the Ancient Ship is discovered by RA's Jaffa, so our heroes must stay in 5000 BC in order to preserve the time-line. Unfortunately, the time-line is changed and the Stargate is not found at Giza. Instead, a canopic jar is found years later, with a video tape of SG-1, the ZPM and a tablet in an obscure Egyptian dialect. Alternate Sam and Daniel are brought to Cheyenne Mountain and Daniel translates the tablet and discovers the location of the second stargate is in Antarctica. They both know the Air Force will likely dismiss them when they are no longer useful, so they decide to find O'neill and try to convince him to come back and join them on the mission. O'neill thinks they are wacko and has no interest in helping them. As the Arctic Stargate is being lifted down into the mountain, ALT Sam and Daniel are afraid their adventure may be at an end.

Comments
Time travel and alternate time-line stories tend to give me a head-ache. So I just watch and enjoy and try not to think about causality or the grandfather paradox. But now I am given the task of reviewing this episode, so I have to try to make sense of the story. Before I get too much more into it, I want to say, right off the bat, that I really enjoyed Moebius, I think it's fun romp, and it would have been a nice way to end the series (as originally planned).

At the beginning, Daniel speaks at Catherine Langford's funeral. We find out that Daniel has kept in touch with her over the years, and that she left her entire collection to him. But where is the rest of SG-1? I was disappointed that Jack, Sam and Teal'c did not go to the funeral... they should have been there, too. I know it was probably because of the actor's scheduling conflicts, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.

In the briefing room SG-1 is gathered around the table and are so relaxed that it doesn't seem like an official briefing... it's like a family gathering. Sam and Jack touch hands, Daniel, Sam and Jack banter about time-travel and Teal'c sits back and raises his eyebrow. Jack seems to have lost command in this episode, too. The only time Jack really asserts his command is when he says, "IF I say 'what' one more time, heads are going to roll!" Loved that line. Otherwise, it's Sam who tells Daniel and Jack that she's not happy about traveling back in time, but she would allow it for this one mission. Once again, when they land, she pretty much orders everyone, especially Jack, to keep a low profile. She tacks on a belated, 'Sir', but she's quite assertive. There are other times, too, like when she says she doesn't want to stay the night, and her insistence that they do not try to take back the ship from the Jaffa and that they have to stay in ancient Egypt for the rest of their lives! Jack clearly wants to fight and take the ship back. Why not just come back at night? They've beaten better odds than this.. and I think Sam's excuse of the time-line is flimsy. I don't think Jack would agree to this, IMO.

But this is what has to happen to get to the next part of the episode... the Alternate time-line. What would happen to our characters if the Stargate did not exist? I enjoyed everyone's alternate portrayal, all played with obvious comedic zeal by Amanda, Daniel and RDA. Colin Cunningham was also great, as were Don Davis and David Hewlitt.

Michael Shanks is great, and I can see this happening to Daniel if there was no Stargate. He is mocked by his peers, laughed out of the academic community, and probably can't find work in the archeology field. So he depends on his knowledge of languages for job security. He doesn't have the knowledge that his theories were correct, which gave him confidence. He doesn't meet O'neill, who became his best friend and showed him bravery and courage. He doesn't meet Sha're, who became the love of his life, and gave him the resolve to continue to fight in her memory. So much stuff has happened to Daniel, thanks to the Stargate, that there is no doubt his life would be very different without it's influence.

I can also see O'neill becoming a hermit if there was no Stargate, especially if Charlie died and Sara left him. There was a scene in season six episode, Redemption, when the SGC's Stargate was destroyed and Jack was again faced with retirement. He told Hammond he always wanted to "command my own boat,". And in this new time-line O'neill is doing just that, spending his life on a fishing boat, cut off from everyone, by his own design.

As for Sam, they really got it all wrong. There is no way, IMO, that our Sam would become this geeky, introverted scientist just because there was no Stargate. Perhaps in an alternate universe, but not an altered time-line. Sam was a strong, kick-ass, Air Force officer who flew helicopters in the Gulf War. She was already at the rank of Captain when she was assigned to the Pentagon and found out about the Stargate. So Sam would, at least, have been an officer in AF somewhere. Or, like the altered time-line in Continuum suggested, she would have joined NASA to became an astronaut.

But I digress... Amanda was wonderful as the geeky Sam, and we all know she loves to do comedy. I really enjoyed the performance and laughed, especially when she had he first glimpse of O'neill in the video tape... and also, when she had to take off the life jacket, her hair was hilarious. And Sam Carter, in any universe, loves blue jello!

It was fun seeing Paul Davis with his Burt Reynolds mustache. Hammond must have earned his second star when given command of SGC, so here, since there was no stargate, he has only one star, his last assignment before retirement. McKay was no different at all, and I thought it was a lost opportunity. Since they futzed up Carter and made her so different, why not do something different with McKay, too? It certainly would have been a shock to see him as a nice guy, not his usual patronizing self.

SAM and JACK
They are clearly standing in each others space in Daniel's lab, arms touching when Daniel tells them about the ZPM.

Their hands touch briefly when Sam shows him the report in the briefing room.

He lets Sam take the lead, and doesn't seem to mind when she bosses him around.

On the tape, when Jack talks about "no fish in my pond", the Sam in the background smiles and looks at him with obvious affection (at least to my eyes).

ALT Jack takes immediate notice of ALT Sam and asks, "Are you two a couple?"

[josiane]

I'll wait for the second part to be posted before commenting properly, but I have to just say how coupley do they act in that first part of Moebius?!

[Aveo_amacus]

I'll wait for the second part to be posted before commenting properly, but I have to just say how coupley do they act in that first part of Moebius?!

Exactly, when he grabs the report he could have just picked it up by the paper or folder, but no he goes for her hand instead
*stares at the gif*
*some more*

Edit: In fact after staring at the gif for a while I've just realised he does actually go to grab the paper with his left hand as well (is it bad that I've been staring at that gif for years and only just noticed - shipper blindness I tell you)

[Rachel500]

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Moebius Part 2

Episode Summary
Geek!Daniel and Geek!Sam protest their exclusion from the mission to Hammond as Capt!Jack arrives. After they show him the puddlejumper, they continue to push for their involvement in the mission. Capt!Jack apparently goes to bat for them and they are included. Hammond orders them *not* to go back in time and sends them off to Chulak.

On Chulak, they all get promptly captured. Shoved into the dungeon of Apophis's palace they meet with Stillascoolasever!Teal'c who denies their suggestion he believes that Apophis is a false God and drags Daniel off to be tortured by Goatee!Apophis (proving that this is the Evil timeline). Stillascoolasever!Teal'c comes back with the camera and Geek!Sam shows him the tape. He agrees to help them. When Geek!Daniel is returned, Kawalsky sets the charges and they blow a hole in the wall. On the way back to the puddlejumper they meet up with Stillascoolasever!Teal'c who kills Geek!Daniel who has been taken by a Goa'uld. Stillalive!Kawalsky is shot as he covers their escape, and only Stillascoolasever!Teal'c, Geek!Sam and Capt!Jack make it to the puddlejumper. Taking fire from enemy gliders, Capt!Jack uses the time travel device to go back to Ancient Egypt.

In Ancient Egypt, they meet up with Original!Daniel who takes news of his demise fairly calmly but is less pleased to realise their existence means that the timeline has been screwed up. As they wait out a Jaffa patrol, he lets them in on the plan to revolt, and they all agree that they need to ensure Ra doesn't take the Stargate and therefore fix the timeline. Original!Daniel suggests using the puddlejumper which he informs them has a cloak.

Capt!Jack and Geek!Sam head off to the puddlejumper to get the ship working (very IGTBK) while Stillascoolasever!Teal'c and Original!Daniel go over the plan for the revolution. Capt!Jack notes that Geek!Sam is hot and she claims that she had a thing for Daniel. They just get the cloak working as a Jaffa patrol comes along but it malfunctions and they hide out in the back of the jumper while Stillascoolasever!Teal'c and Original!Daniel come to the rescue.

Geek!Sam kisses Capt!Jack and after a brief word of protest about her previous claim (which she dismisses as a lie because she simply wanted to get to know him better), he kisses her back. Luckily, Stillascoolasever!Teal'c and Original!Daniel start the revolution while they are busy making out in the jumper.

Back in the restored timeline, Original!SG1 is reviewing the tape they made of themselves in the past. Original!Sam notes that they don't have to go to the past now as they already did, and tries to make off with the ZPM. Original!Jack steps in to remove it from her grasp telling her she has packing to do.

Original!Sam and Original!Jack are fishing again, as they did at the end of Threads, but a fish jumps out of the pond unexpectedly. Original!Sam notes that Original!Jack said there was no fish in his pond, and Original!Jack says 'close enough' as Original!Daniel and Originalandcool!Teal'c arrive to join them.

Favourite Scene
Generally the scene when the remnants of ScrewedTimeline!SG1 meet up with Original!Daniel.

From a Sam and Jack perspective, the kissing scene in the puddlejumper.

Favourite Quote
There are so many to choose from but let's go with those from my fave scenes!

Original!Daniel: Well, this can't be a good sign.
Capt!Jack: Why's that?
Original!Daniel: Where am I?
Capt!Jack: Ancient Egypt?
Original!Daniel: No, I mean the me from your timeline.
Stillascoolasever!Teal'c: I killed you.

Capt!Jack: Wait a minute. You said you liked Daniel.
Geek!Sam: I lied. I just wanted to get to know you better. You see, usually I'm a very cautious person and I tend to think things...(kissing)

Discussion Generally
I have to admit that I was fairly 'meh!' about Moebius Part 2 when it first aired. Primarily because I had expected from press hints of the episode summary confirmation of our Sam and Jack getting together and kissing not an alternate timeline version. That said, this part is a fairly good time travel romp that is in many ways parallels and is a homage to the entire Stargate SG1 story to date and played mostly for laughs.

So, firstly, let me talk a little about the rest of SG1.

Stillascoolasever!Teal'c: Really it's no surprise that Teal'c turns up as Apophis's First Prime. Ostensibly Ra taking the Stargate from Earth hasn't affected Goa'uld politics at all even if Ra is presumably still alive (as Jack and Daniel haven't killed him). And in all ways Teal'c is very much our Teal'c: he's convinced by the Tau'ri's technology and strength, by the video of himself that they show him, to help them escape. He ends up helping with the revolutin and freeing Earth (and I firmly believe he goes on to create the Free Jaffa tribe that we hear about in S9).

Geek!Daniel and Original!Daniel: Like, Lucycat I can see Daniel ending up as Geek!Daniel (although I think the geekiness is exaggerated for comic effect) without the Stargate in his life and being able to prove his theories. In some ways, Geek!Daniel's story is combined with his and Sha're's in this second half. He goes to Chulak but gets taken as a host and is killed by Teal'c. In some respects, Daniel's own initial story is consumed by Sha're being taken as a host, her death at Teal'c's hand and his being set adrift in the aftermath until he dies. But, Daniel lives! Because Original!Daniel is still alive and so when the team meet up with him again, it is very much as though he has been resurrected, much more confident about his place in the world and what he needs to do. And Original!Daniel is all about defeating a Goa'uld just as in the wider SG1 story arc, since Daniel's return he has worked to defeat Anubis.

But the parallels don't stop there.

Sam and Jack

Capt!Jack: Again, like Lucycat I can see how Jack could end up as Capt!Jack; self-exiled to live on The Homer after the death of Charlie and Sara leaving him. But Capt!Jack's story parallels our own; he's pulled out of retirement for the Stargate mission, convinces Teal'c to help them, loses Kawalsky, comes to respect Sam's abilities, thinks he won't get Sam briefly but eventually ends up with her. (More on that in just a mo).

Geek!Sam: Unlike Lucycat, I can see Sam ending up as Geek!Sam (who again is exaggerated for comic effect) although clearly the knock-on effect of the Stargate disappearing from Earth has altered Sam's own personal history in some way that is not apparent (I think there's a fic which details out the various minor changes that result in Geek!Sam). I think many people go back to Sam's own comment in JM/TDYK that she wouldn't have joined the Air Force if she hadn't talked and forgiven her father after her mother's death. A Sam left motherless with a cold unloving relationship with her father and an absent brother may have possibly ended up as insecure and hesitant in front of male authority figures.

For me, it's more than that though: I think Geek!Sam is a representation of sorts of Original!Sam the Woman underneath the outer shells of Sam the Soldier and Sam the Scientist. A woman who isn't confident in her personal life; who feels awkward and uncertain yet who ultimately steps up to the plate to get her man.

Indeed, Geek!Sam's journey in Moebius Part 2 is very much a parallel of Sam's; she starts out trying to prove herself worthy of being part of the mission, gains Jack's respect and regard, wonders if future her will have a boyfriend just before seemingly turning Jack away before she plucks up the courage to go for it and just kiss him.

Geek!Sam and Capt!Jack: There are some nice parallels particularly once they get to Ancient Egypt. Firstly there's the whole "fixing of the ship" which neatly parallels our Sam and Jack having to "fix the ship" in ITGTBK and the wider metaphor that the damaged time travel puddlejumper actually symbolises their relationship.

Moreover, there's the "I kind of liked Daniel" scene in the puddlejumper which parallels in some respect the elevator scene in Chimera (particularly the dialogue about it getting awkward). While I think Capt!Jack's obviousness is *not* a parallel as Original!Jack I think was not as obvious about how he felt about Original!Sam to Original!Sam herself, effectively, Geek!Sam does seem to choose someone else over him briefly just as Original!Sam briefly chose to be with Pete.

But I do like the kissing scene (I may have already mentioned this) because Geek!Sam explains herself noting that she needed more time and that she had a tendency to think about things too much (something which is indicated in Original!Sam's characterisation as far back as Solitudes). And I think Geek!Sam's latter explanation is a pretty good version for Original!Sam's hesitation in getting together with Original!Jack too (although the Originals are also committed to the Stargate mission and have regulations, duty and honour to think about too).

I think the choice by TPTB to focus on the personal love story of Sam and Jack in their alternate versions is interesting and I tend to believe they did as a way of saying to the audience, Original!Sam and Original!Jack are together.

Original!Sam and Original!Jack: OK, I'm going to finish up with some discussion of the last scenes in Moebius. Firstly the scene where Jack whips away the ZPM and tells Sam she has packing to do clearly shows a shift in their relationship because Jack would never have made such a personal demand on her - and she would not have accepted. (Some say he also goosed her on the way out but I will leave that to others to debate). Since this scene takes place between Daniel's return from the AscendedDiner but before the fishing trip, it clearly indicates that the two of them have made a shift in their relationship - and I would guess they spoken about it enough that they know they want to be together even if they're not together-together (because clearly Jack's still in command in that scene).

But personally, for me, taking the ZPM to the geeks upstairs was one of Jack's last acts in charge of the SGC (I tend to assume he sent the ZPM and the rescue force to Atlantis in his new role as Head of Homeworld).

Why? Because, I think Jack is very relaxed on the fishing trip (more so than Threads). He's a puddle of goo in his fishing chair which suggests that he might have gotten lucky very recently. And for me while I can see them discussing their relationship and making plans ahead of the chain of command issue being resolved, I can't see either Sam and Jack jumping into the bedroom without the chain of command issue being resolved.

While I did hate the fish jumping up at the end (and seriously that shot where they turn to each other would have been a perfect place for a kiss!), I do think overall the message we're meant to take away from Moebius is that Sam and Jack The Love Story gets a happy ending.

[Lucycat]

Liked all those parallel comparisons, Rachel... very insightful.

Tho, I still don't think our Sam would become Geeky!Sam with just no Stargate... a lot of stuff would have had to change in her background... and nothing else would have changed in this timeline except for the absence of the Stargate. That's just how I see it. An Alternate Universe, definitely!!

Though, in Moebius Part 2, she got her confidence, and came into her own, fer sure.

Original!Daniel: Well, this can't be a good sign.
Capt!Jack: Why's that?
Original!Daniel: Where am I?
Capt!Jack: Ancient Egypt?
Original!Daniel: No, I mean the me from your timeline.
Stillascoolasever!Teal'c: I killed you.

I liked the end part of that quote, too...

Original!Daniel: Why?
Tealc: You were a Gou'ld spy.
Daniel: good reason.

As for the final scene... I have to admit, I never noticed Jack's posture in Threads version versus the Moebius version... you are right... in Moebius, he is much more "laid" back (bad pun).

[majorsal]

As for the final scene... I have to admit, I never noticed Jack's posture in Threads version versus the Moebius version... you are right... in Moebius, he is much more "laid" back (bad pun).

but i liked that they were sitting closer together in the 'threads' version, so i'm conflicted