Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

So, proper exegesis of the Scriptures clearly indicates that a literal, 7-day week is meant. Now, what does that mean in terms of "science"? Frankly, I don't know. It's possible "science" is wrong about the age of the universe. Stuff like that can happen occasionally. It's also possible that the universe was created with an "appearance of age", in which case science is actually right so far as it goes, which is to say, it's right to tell us that the universe looks billions of years old, though it would be wrong in actual fact. It's also possible that my exegesis is somehow wrong; I'm not God, and I can make mistakes or miss facts. If so, presumably someone can show me a textual argument for why I'm wrong.

science is built into such ways that it's possible that we are wrong. but the error would be so utterly atrocious that i think every scientist in the world would resign from his position were this true.


we live in a world where a claim has to be over a Sigma-3 to be CONSIDERED. this is some 99.9% chance that it's RIGHT. in particle physics, it's a sigma 5. that's a chance of less than 1 in a million that there's an error.

Gravity Lensing can cause things to look further than they are, true, but if i remember correctly, i can't think of any situation where this was billions of years. Redshift is fairly accurate, and our understanding of gravity is sufficient to account for gravity lensing and the sort.

and that's just observing of the galaxy. isotope studies fairly accurately suggest it's much older. so unless God in some strange sense of humor made it look like this, pretty much all our understanding of the universe suggests otherwise.

i know, we don't quite understand gravity to it's fullest. but it would require exorbitant errors to make it fit the Bible.


so i'll go back to my original thought: the bible is written by men, at a time where little of this was known. if it had been written today, God would've made all from nothing in a microsecond or less, and made the constants of the universe just right for life to exist.


the Bible is not perfect for man is not perfect. it's not a book of lies, but it's neither a book of absolute truth. most notably on the science part.

[fugiman]

Let just leave it at "the bible is a great teaching tool and should not be taken as complete truth but as a moral guideline to live by" (well other then the parts about slavery and hating gay people)


Anyways Gormagon why are the Houjin fighting the replicators?

[thekillman]

how's your progress at the Spartans?

oh and Tep: jesus does not have to be an ancient per se. we know others ascended too. with help, true, but it's not possible to rule out that people like Nox, Furlings or Asgard ascended at the time.

[fugiman]

Good but I kind of stalled out for a little bit. I had an exam today so I had to focus on Weather and Atmosphere science for the day rather then the Spartans.

However do you have any more ideas about history, culture or biology about them?

I could totally see Jesus being a Nox, just saying. Let's not get into a religious war

[Gormagon]

The Replicators learned of the Houjin by downloading the tiny bit of info a Goa'uld Ha'tak computer had. They then attacked the Houjin, and the Houjin were saved buy the Dakara device.

the Bible is not perfect for man is not perfect. it's not a book of lies, but it's neither a book of absolute truth. most notably on the science part.

Actually I think you would be surprised. But first I would need to know on what scientific points you are talking about, post them on my new thread please.

[thekillman]

well i am not certain about "recent history".


for technology, i am also not certain, whether to focus on a Goauld-esque design, or a Roman-esque design. i am also not certain on the extent of their little "empire". i think it might be interesting to pull off something more interesting than the occasional "we have a solar system".


first off, some more complex theory: Binary star. i'm not sure about the required magnitudes of the stars, but i'd go for something like a .8 Sol and a .5 Sol (as in 80% of Sol's mass and 50% of Sol's mass).


more interestingly, this Binary Star is orbiting, well i am not sure. i'd go for a double or triple star system. actually, go for Triple.


so the Spartan system is a double star. the Double Star revolves with a Brown Dwarf and a bigger star (like, 10 Sol masses) around a central point. this could be a Black Hole, again haven't though about this THAT much.


the Spartan System is a relatively "empty" star system. there are 2 "Jupiters". one roughly the size of Jupiter, one Superjupiter of about 3 Jupiter masses. there are about 2 Inner Planets, a SuperEarth and a Venus like planet. the SuperEarth is about 1.6 Earth masses, and is very metallic, with traces of Trinium. similarly, the Venus-planet is highly acidic, hell-like, and contains small veins of Trinium.

the Spartan planet has Trinium too, in Gold-esque quantities.

this leads the Spartans to go explore. the Venusian and SuperEarth planet are settled, in "Bio Domes". initially structures, later on they're sustained forcefields with a self-contained and replenished atmosphere, while Terraforming is underway to make it... less hostile. the SuperEarth has a super-thin atmosphere, so anti-asteroid cannons, asteroid guards etc are present.


the Jupiter is used for large-scale gas collection. Fusion-powered starships were launched low on fuel and sent here to fill up for the interstellar journey to the other stars, nowadays it's still used for Fusion Fuel, where Commercial ships charge up their capacitors for the Hyperspace jump.


the Brown Dwarf has two Trinium-Rich planets. kind of like the Venusian, one is extremely cold with hydrocarbon lakes, the other is a rock planet with a water layer of 5-15 kilometers, no continents, and a semi-earthlike atmosphere. only basic life evolved in the form of water-life, algae and the sorts, but since there's no land, no true life evolved. sunken platforms mine trinium from the bottom of the Ocean, while floating platforms provide living space and all.


the Giant star is the second closest star (but still the closest as a Brown Dwarf is not a star), but at three times the distance of the Brown Dwarf. it has three Gas Giants, and five Dwarf Planets like pluto. one is pluto-esque and really far out, the other
four are "inner planets", one highly volcanic. only the far away planet has Naquahdah, and is considered a captured Rogue Planet from another star system. Naquahdah-power ensures the local mining site can work at high-efficiency, as a shield dome keeps the frozen atmosphere out and the warm, breathable atmosphere in, and high-power tools can run on cheap power.

[fugiman]

I was thinking that the Spartans actually spread past a single system. They make a small interstellar empire and have been having an active war with Ares for some time. Which led to his weakening state. Then I was thinking that when Anubis took what was left of Ares empire he found out about the Spartans and launched an attack on them hoping to either gain new technology or new slave army to fight for him.

[Gormagon]

Interesting, but be careful, that would draw quite a bit of attention to them from the Goa'uld.

[fugiman]

Well Ares was a minor goa'uld if I remember correctly from "It's good to be king" so I was thinking that the Spartans kept up war with Ares that drained him of resources to became a major player in the system lords so when Anubis finally had the ships and armies he took out Ares and found out about the Spartans. I was thinking that the Spartans would know that they couldn't go to an active war with the system lords so they started attacking minor goa'uld as to build up their combat experience and try and acquire more technology. I would like to think that the Spartans used SG like teams but were much more violet like the early NID to acquire goa'uld technology.

So Anubis looking for another technological advancement over the other goa'uld system lords attacked only to find a strong fighting race that he hoped to take over and use against the goa'uld. This led to Anubis pulling forces from his attack on Earth (the battle over Antarctica) which is why he didn't have his whole strike force as he underestimated Earth's defenses.

Also do you guys think there is anyway we could have Ma'Chello or Janus somewhere fit into the fleet? I just love those guys

Plus I've been watching a lot of the earlier seasons of SG1 and I'm trying to think of a way to introduce the different societies that SG1 met at that time that we never heard from again.

[Crazy Tom]

Killman, trinary systems are absolute murder for planetary stability, I wouldn't bank on a habitable world being likely. Through it might be an interesting idea to have a planet settled by a goa'uld while in a temporary "mild" phase then abandoned afterward, leaving the slaves behind. Maybe have them undergo rapid technological advancement in the face of worsening climate conditions.

[Davidtourniquet]

Lt Col.

Spoiler:

The Angels are considered sons of God as well you know.



Fallen as in offspring of fallen angels perhaps? Read Genesis 6:1-4. It does not sound like he is referring to human and human. If he was, why is it written like that? Why would not have been written like Genesis 4: 25-Genesis 5? Genesis five is a lineage account from Adam to Noah and his sons. Why exactly would they make a real account then a metaphorical one?

And giants could mean 7-8 feet tall, 350+ pounds or something.

Goliath was the same height as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow . Check him out. Just a genetic thing to do with skeletal growth probably. Now look at the guy, then imagen if he was in an army, and trained all the time.

Ok. Goliath's armor and spear.
5000 shekel coat of mail, 57 kg 126 lbs.
Iron blade of his spear, 600 shekels 6.8 kg 15lbs




Actually I would much prefer to take the inspired scriptures word for it and not the opinions of some men.

But I thought this was a dead subject anyway.

I'd rather take science's word than a collection of books that were put together by a group of men that voted on whether women had souls. Also, the interpretation today of the scriptures doesn't make sense: On one hand most christian denominations believe that homosexuality is an abomination to God, however it also says in the same place that other abominations to God are: working on the sabbath (should be stoned), eating pork (I think a good stoning there too), rape is the woman's fault (stone the woman), wearing clothes made of two or more materials or grow two types of crops in one field. But you don't see the christians agreeing with those ones do you? Sorry but the literal use of the Bible is something I don't agree with.

Sorry to bring it up again, but I felt another voice was required.

[Gormagon]

So Anubis looking for another technological advancement over the other goa'uld system lords attacked only to find a strong fighting race that he hoped to take over and use against the goa'uld. This led to Anubis pulling forces from his attack on Earth (the battle over Antarctica) which is why he didn't have his whole strike force as he underestimated Earth's defenses.

Also do you guys think there is anyway we could have Ma'Chello or Janus somewhere fit into the fleet? I just love those guys

Plus I've been watching a lot of the earlier seasons of SG1 and I'm trying to think of a way to introduce the different societies that SG1 met at that time that we never heard from again.

Mhm k mhm k. Sounds pretty good too me, also remember that Anubis was fighting the System Lords all well, so a large portion of his fleet was occupied.

Definitely yes, it has always been a major pet peeve of mine how many races and societies we never heard from again, and how many dead ends were left over. I can list a crap load of them. You could have make another five seasons with those guys as filler stories for episodes. So yes, we should do something about that.

David, do not get the Bible writers and the scriptures confused with the traditions of men that were added in against Gods will. The Mosaic law was made into a burden by men(Pharisees and others) adding all kinds of unscriptual teachings and traditions.

The Bible speaks very highly of Woman, Eve was a "Complement" to Adam, as a helper and companion for him.

[Davidtourniquet]

I don't! But that is the Bible that is used in Christianity, that is sworn on.

[Gormagon]

If you have questions PM me or post on the thread I made.

[Princess Awinita]

I think hyperspace is going to be the general term used by all races as none of them had advanced enough to have a word themselves so they are most likely going to use the Goa'uld, Ancient or Asgard and thus hyperspace is most likely what every race in the milky way will call it. But that's just what I think

the Goauld called it hyperspace, so it likely is called that by many others. i personally consider any time any of my characters speak, that all things are translated and placed in our own context. so while, say, Machayo calls it hyperspace, in his own language it might be different. but since i hate creating entire lexicon lists for every race, so everyone can understand it, i basically use an auto-translate for all of it. so while Omari says "1000 meters", for his planet it might be 3049284 Gibbl. it would get crazy rather quick, as you could imagine.

i was going to introduce something called a "slipstream" maneuver. it's nothing complicated, but it's basically one spacecraft flying in the hyperspace "slipstream" of another ship. this would, from a subspace perspective, be an invisible maneuver. IE, a Valkyrie in the slipstream of a Deadalus Class would show up as a Deadalus only. this isn't true for actual towing, in that the Hyperspace Field is modified (noticeably).

i also believe that it's not possible to "see" the type of hyperdrive etc being used. however, since the amount of ships is limited and the existing ones well-documented, systems like CON would be able to determine what ship it is purely based upon the subspace telemetry. so, the subspace displacement, energy, frequency of the waves, and the rough speed would be the data to determine it.


so a ship could, theoretically, mimick another ship. granted, i think the gap between Asgard and Goauld hyperdrives is too big for mimicking, but ones of relatively the same power and design would be pretty much indistinguishable. for example, a Spartan and Goauld hyperdrive, or a Lucian or Jaffa hyperdrive. IFF's would be important.

good points all around, though my question is primarly the planets that aren't as tech advanced as others, say a fedual world or something that sees space as the void, and hyperspace as that torrental realm where anything can happen or the like and call it the Warp or something like it. I know some call it star paths, ,like a constellation, but that is all that comes to mind