Alternate Universe Virtual Fleet

[Crazy Tom]

if you'd take a look at the eighty year war you'd see that it's not only war. Yet I can see what you mean and if we did that we'd create our cylons...

But I can see the Ori being so strong they simply overrun everything we can throw at them and after time they could even take Earth! at which time we really are nothing but a resistance.

I'm afraid the wiki article on the Eighty Year's War was rather extensive, could you summarize for our benefit the way it was fought.

My point on "cylons" was that we'd likely have soldiers volunteer to be copied, in that case, each clone would have made the choice willingly, and they would have ful rights, so I don't understand the cylon metaphor.

Why is it tom when we say its going to be a long war you freak out and say everything must now be automated. Production could be automated but manning the ships cant. You say we dont have enough people but the entire galaxy is full of humans and others that will help us against the Ori. Maybe its time to get them involved. And I think eighty years is too long but twenty to forty seems good.

Maybe it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Still, the use of humans on ships, versus uploading their personalities, is limiting in that you have to include shielding and life support that would not have to be there otherwise. Making ships easier to build.

As to copying, I assumed that it would be faster to do so than taking time to train all the medieval villagers.

[locutes]

well lets say in the beginning the war is everywhere, then some parts manage to keep the enemy out and at bay and thus then creating the ability to slowly get back up on your feet and fight.

The Aceh war was a war in which after a long war in which the attacking party, the dutch had real high losses because of guerrilla war fighting and that what they controled was theirs but they could not controle aceh

[thekillman]

tom, do not make the tech needlessly complicated. i think that without the ACC, any hopes of us using nanites and replicators is crazy.

at best, we can contact the Asgard, Altairans, Tok'ra, hebridans, and all in one massive collaborative effort, we create carbon nanocytes, each batch programmed like enzymes, and capable of doing simple tasks.


i think that beam-aided construction, and making basically everything space-based would be the best way. no need for missile busses. i foresee effective use of our BC-304's, the actual use of the F-302 hyperdrive, use of tel'tak and al'kesh.

i think tech should never become the focal point. in SG, only a few episodes revolve around actual technology, mostly it's solving a problem, resolving a situation. something happened. how do we react, what do we do? i would prefer that after the FMC is countered, any battle which will include an Ori Mothership is deemed a lost one.

essentially, we're fighting a battle, then an ori mothership arrive, and we have to flee, or we die.


one of the main strenghts and one of the main weaknesses of SG1 resp. SGA is, is the Tok'ra race. SG1 allowed an underdog earth, and anytime some cool tech was actually needed, the Tok'ra supplied it. making it believable. SGA lacked this, requiring us to be ubersmart, and it simply does not fit.

the tok'ra should be important tech-wise, the asgard too, and their weapons are needed, our tactical ability and resilliance is needed, and jaffa numbers are needed.



Tom, the FJN during the ori war were rapidly loosing terrain. many worlds gave up without a fight, and any that did put up a fight became an example for the rest. what i would like, is that all the rather tradionalist jaffa will become Orists, while the true progressives, the people who like teal'c, the people who rebelled as one of the first, the ones that truely believed in their cause, will remain, making the FJN stronger than ever.


the Illac might be big, but they will not be able to build hundreds of ships just like that. infrastructure is needed. the knowledge has to be spread. resources mined. ship built, people trained, and before this is all put in action....


the ori could attack that fast BECAUSE of the ascended ori. how else could they build intergalactic warships without significant infrastructure.


i would like that Adria first remains the leader, then she is killed, and the Doci and Priors take over.

that will give a much more fair fight. relatively stupid people with quite advanced tech. we have less advanced but we are smarter. we also have many kinds of races at our side, so we are varied and many situations can be dealt with.

the Illac Renin can be beaten fair, the ori require more. the FMC will be our prime weapon against them. sometimes, we might get a different kind of lucky kill.

the ori should build new ships considerably slower.


also, i would dislike constant EW. once the ARG was countered, it took quite some time to re-enable it. even then, it didnt take much time to disable it again. i would actually prefer if it would take a long time of research, gathering info and gathering debris and tidbits and piece by piece learning how their countermeasures work.


Atlantis can be a definate help. but i really do not see how we can effectively help eachother.

[Smallz]

Hey Dboy how comes part 2.

[dboy-2007]

Its coming along I can only get small piecwritten a day so It should be ready for about thursday friady ish.

[Smallz]

So hey dboy could I make up a history about the tokra mainly their tatics and such during the Ori war.

[thekillman]

i'm interested.

i think we all should spin our ideas

[thekillman]

my short ideas on some Resistance races:

Tok'ra:

after the fall of earth, the Tok'ra were the first Resistance member with good news.
the first goa'uld queen had succesfully been cloned. also, it had been given tok'ra genetic memory instead of the normal Goauld version.
in the past years, similar attempts had always resulted in the death of the clone, mostly through cancer and organ complications.
soon, however, the ori attacked the Tok'ra homeworld, killing dozens of tok'ra, injuring hundreds and destroying the birth facility.
luckily, the research was backed-up and the re-incarnated birth programme was put onboard four different ha'tak, to maximize the chance of survival.

though many people fell to the will of the ori, many still had the memory of the Goa'uld fresh in their minds. as many previous rebels had shown, openly resisting the ori was madness.
instead, many travelled and met with Resistance members, of which many joined the tok'ra.

as the years of allying the tau'ri had shown, the tok'ra are masters of gadgets and counter-technology. in the resistance, they have taken their place as the R&D department.
Tau'ri Ceramic Polymer research had been continued by the tok'ra, leading to even better armor technology. jaffa, humans, and tok'ra were rapidly equipped with better body armor.
though an ori staff weapon still posed a great threat, it would only be lethal in a well-placed shot.
currently, they are working on better jaffa equipment, enhancing their own ships, and infiltrating and spying on the ori.


Jaffa:

after the fall of earth, the point the ori were making was clear: they can not be defeated so easily. as a result, many jaffa with doubt in their hearts, left the Free Jaffa Nation.
teal'c and bra'tac could only watch as more and more people changed allegiances. but it also had a positive side: more and more, the remaining jaffa became united of mind, all progressive,
all believing the Ori to be false gods, and all willing to give their lives to prove it. though poorly educated, poorly equipped and loosing terrain, the FJN only grows stronger.

the Resistance ensured many FJN Ha'tak got equipped with better tech, and more "useless" space onboard the ha'tak was filled up. this lead to greater combat effectivity, and even to the ability to resist one shot from the ori main weapon.
in the Resistance, the jaffa mainly deliver equipment like tel'tak, al'kesh, ha'tak, troop transports, loads of naquahdah and trinium ore, and troops.

Tau'ri:

after the fall of earth, the Tau'ri were scattered across the Milky Way, and even in pegasus. though both the Milkyway and Pegasus tau'ri were good-willed, both sides lacked the resources to continue support.
as a result, both sides dislike helping the other. every Aurora-class warship, every drone, every ZPM and every other piece of ancient technology found by the Expedition is badly needed in the war against the wraith.
every ship, every weapon, every bullet and every man is badly needed by the resistance to prevent defeat at the hands of the Ori.

the tau'ri use their long history of war, modern equipment and tactics, aswel as 10 years of alien technology gathering, and their good relations with many races (including the Asgard),
to rally against the ori, find allies, use technology and try and bring defeat to the Ori. their tactical knowledge is essential to using every resource and knowledge to the maximum.


Asgard:

aside from the Ori, the Asgard by far are the most advanced. as the sole remaining Great Race (aside form the Nox), they are crucial in their knowledge of physics and technology, to help counter the Ori's massive technological advantage.
the Shield Frequency Modulation Chip, believed to be the ultimate weapon against the ori, is currently being studied and developed by the Asgard. though their Homeworld still stands in the galaxy Ida, they still suffer from their plague and the aftermath of the replicator war.
resources and ships spread thin, they by no means are the force they once were.


in the Resistance, their advanced technology and knowledge is crucial to battling the Ori's advanced technology. their ships are the only available capable of significant damage against the ori.

[Crazy Tom]

at best, we can contact the Asgard, Altairans, Tok'ra, hebridans, and all in one massive collaborative effort, we create carbon nanocytes, each batch programmed like enzymes, and capable of doing simple tasks.

We've sen it's possible to program relatively sophisticated Ais into nanites, like FRAN. And the Replicator's shield piercing abilities (like the projectiles used by the replicator cruiser) could be used initially before the frequency modulator equipment is developed.

no need for missile busses. i foresee effective use of our BC-304's, the actual use of the F-302 hyperdrive, use of tel'tak and al'kesh.

The 304s are useful mobile bases, but it's a lot cheaper on a cost/damage done analysis to build these missile bus Al'kesh.

also, i would dislike constant EW. once the ARG was countered, it took quite some time to re-enable it. even then, it didnt take much time to disable it again. i would actually prefer if it would take a long time of research, gathering info and gathering debris and tidbits and piece by piece learning how their countermeasures work.

I disagree, EW, realistically, changes quite a lot as new algorithms and sch are developed. And against the Ori, where not being hit is better defense than any shield, EW would be huge, especially since it's relatively cheap, requiring only software updat3s once installed in the very flexible SG level tech emitters.

Atlantis can be a definate help. but i really do not see how we can effectively help eachother.

Atlantis is a R&D heaven. Nanites, ZPE warheads, our own versions of Priors. Most breakthrough level tech would come form there, it is the Ancient's database after all. It would be interesting, what would happen if the Ori stumble into Pegasus, and the wraith, it would give us a decent chance not to be constantly hunted by powerful Ori ships, which would be dealing with wraith, and it would provide the grounds for a radical social change in Wraith society, if we help them survive without feeding on humans (sarcophagus tech, ancient healing device).

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

Asgard:

aside from the Ori, the Asgard by far are the most advanced. as the sole remaining Great Race (aside from the Nox)

Ummm i do believe that there is one more race out there we just haven't met them yet.(The Furlings) and as such we do not know if there alive or not, what they can offer, but we do know that they must be pretty advanced to have been one of the Four Great Races. (Five now with the Tauri included.)

[thekillman]

but i regard them as dead too.

tom, let's make it stargate. stargate is not uberhard sci fi. though EW might be possible, if it's so easy, how come nobody ever did anything like it?

let's focus on how we can defeat them, not all the countless technological aspects

[thekillman]

i need to have some questions answered.

what powers ori motherships?
personally, i think micro black holes power them. here is an interesting article about that. about 1 million tonnes of matter squished into a black hole will do great. also, by throwing in more matter, more energy can be made


what happens to the asgard and their clone problem?
i think it should be solved


what do we do with the furlings?

what do we do with the nox?
i say we have them make a sanctuary for all that want to escape the choosing of sides. the ori cant touch them due to the phasing, and frankly, the ori would evade the Nox as much as possible, as to not provoke them. as long as the Nox believe peace is possible, they will be no threat


what do we do with Adria
i'd say she dies when we test the FMC's

how do we defeat the Ori
i'd say, kill priors (so the people know they're not invincible), nuke Celestis, and the war itself should show the ori are not gods, merely advanced.

how do we fight the ori? SG1 style (peaceful), or do we have more extremists (earth from the movie, COTG, NID perhaps) who believe nuking people is perfectly fine?

i'd say, that not everything is handled peacefully or without extreme violence. after a few years war, people will be begging to nuke celestis to "prove a point"

[locutes]

you should have asked my grandfather what to do about the Republik Indonesia... His answer would've been nuke it to hell or full scale invasion or something similar.

same thing

[Crazy Tom]

What does it matter what powers them? Let's just set a figure for them and be done with it. Tech that advanced isn't making it's way into our hands anyways.

I say they ditch biological bodies all together, upload into their machines. On a tangent, they can handle nanites better than us, so why not give them the data we have on that? Let them create a huge fleet.

Furlings... ah, who knows, let them stay unknown.

Killing priors, good, nuking Celestic, stupid. First off, it will do the exact opposite of what you want, it'll motive the Ori followers further. It would be like America dropping a bomb on the Temple of the Rock.
Let the Wraith and Asgard handle most of the heavy lifting against the Ori. I know this takes away form the human perspective, but I prefer it that way, since Earth is quite inexperienced at this sort of thing.

The people, followers that is, are a very small threat, it's the priors who build ships and such. So blatant nuking is pointless except for making things worse.

[thekillman]

it's more like nuking the olympic is to the ancient greek.

it's the friggin city of the gods. if the city can be devastated by mere humans, then they're not gods