Alternate Universe Virtual Fleet

[Smallz]

Exactly which lies the problem. Pegasus have to deal with things in the pegasus galaxy but lets say the main HQ is in the Milky Way. They can care more for the Milky Way than Pegasus. I mean its going to happen. Why did the european countries have their colonies revolt on them. Its just that the home galaxy will always come first in the eyes of those running things at home making those in another galaxy feel left out.

[dboy-2007]

as shown in the first part of the story those in pegasus are there by there own choice they dont need to be. Theres no splitting down the road end of.

[thekillman]

a sudden split would be crazy.


however, i do not see why Pegasus would constantly help out against the ori. the wraith are more than a capable threat. without the APBW's, we're still extremely vulnerable. there's no way we can win such a war against them, even WHEN split and fractioned and weak etc. pegasus is safe from the ori. really, the ancient worshipping in Pegasus, one prior and they all go ori. yet the ori did not. so clearly they do not know.


pegasus has enough trouble of it's own.



milkyway has barely got any bases, and therefore would actually try and save resources, not spend the rest on a galaxy that is in disarray.


re: the missiles. maybe you missed my points. the Pegasgard in SGA could pass through ancient shields. then mckay countered. now, i'm thinking the same for the ori. except now, the ascended ori are gone, we should DEFINATELY kill Adria and not let her ascend, and then we can actually get some kills (if executed fast) before they know what happens and before they find out how we do it.


also, the nukes used on these "phase" missiles should be mark IX warheads, plasma drive, custom from back to front.


one hit should vapourise, melt, and destroy a significant part of an ori mothership. preferrably, hit the nose section (well, i see it more as a forehead). that way, the main gun is offline. railguns and plasma bolts finish up the rest. or just more, normal nukes.


should be effective for about one battle. we do kills, then the ori feel the pain of loss for once.


no constant fighting, instead constant infiltration by tok'ra (they're the best), gathering knowledge, technology, and then striking, really really hard and then get back to the shadows.


because fighting just ori would be insane (we're never gonna win that one with our ships, and it would make the fleet boring), i propose we re-use my earlier idea:

the Illac Renin.


a group of primarily jaffa. there are Illac Renin Priors, warriors, and ships. either we give them new ships, with a mix of goauld and ori (say, a tel'tak with silver), or just old goauld ships.


because the priors most likely just know what they need to know, they can not uberupgrade stuff or build new ships in no-time. so, the Illac ships would primarily consist of ships, somewhat smaller than a ha'tak, but definately stronger than one. equipped with better plasma weapons, better shields, power, hyperdrive, etc. but not uber.


their soldiers would be jaffa-style Ori Warriors. those staffs, those gaunlets, armor, etc.


can we give them at least SOME effective armor? say, low cal bulletproof armor? handguns and small arms fire does not work?



so, my idea of all the forces at work:


-Orists: the ori followers, primarily human. use ori motherships, ori fighters, etc. the ori as we know them.

-Illac Renin: ori warriors. unlike the Orists, the IR has less strenght per ship, but a greater fleet. they will be the primary pain in the mik'ta, but we can actually defeat their ships in combat.

-Lucian Alliance. shadow group, has been dealt losses. now, Kira is in command, a very capable, smart woman. the LA is not as stupid, instead, they have gained quite a knowledge of goauld tech, their ships outperform the old goauld ships. extremely unpredictable, wild card so to speak. no such thing as "the right thing", at least, not as WE know it.

-Tau'ri. Earth is out of the picture. now, the remains of the tau'ri are split up between pegasus and the milkyway. though initially, there's help from pegasus, the lack of counter-help makes them abandon it. the fleet consists of two ships: Deadalus and Odyssey. both have a ZPM, Deadalus from the Arctic, Odyssey the one it had. Oddy and deady can cloak, because of their ZPM. shield wise, toe-to-toe with ori and asgard ships. weapon-wise, still weak. they still have their alpha, beta, and gamma sites.

*we should take a few goauld drydocks, some ha'tak and tel'tak and al'kesh spare parts, and build a flying shipyard. that way, it's always safe. all population should eventually move to ships aswel*


-Free Jaffa Nation. still struggling with their government, they are rapidly loosing planets to the Ori and Illac. however, the shrinking also makes it increasingly easy to govern. soon they will reach the ideal size, with plenty of ships, plenty of planets, plenty of resources, but no major player like we're used to. however, combining the knowledge and technology from dozens of goauld sytem lords, they managed to reconstruct the Ha'tak'ko of apophis, with help from the Tok'ra. this ship carries their government and all important people for the functioning of their faction. carries stronger guns, stronger shields, stronger everything. essentially a flying city. all ships upgraded by the Tok'ra, whom they finally dare trust enough. initially, ha'tak can take about one main ori blast.
Illac main ships outperform 1 to 3 (1 illac = 3 FJN)

-Tok'ra. the spies and infiltrators. they are the main source of technology and knowledge. their genetic memory makes them experts on goauld technology, they have knowledge on ancient technology, and by extent thus, some knowledge of ori tech. like the Asgard help the tau'ri, the Tok'ra help the jaffa. because the tok'ra still lack numbers, they have the jaffa be their "army".

-Hebridans. though their homeworld is taken, refugees help the resistance. weak, slow ships, but excellent knowledge, which they use to help the resistance.

-Asgard. major player, they lack numbers but they are also the only ones who can dent ori shields. will be helping the tau'ri, the tau'ri will help them with tactics.


-Goauld remnants. under the leadership of Baal, a few goauld still live. baal has made his own queen and his own goauld, as "offspring", and has loyal jaffa and warriors. his ships are stronger (1 illac main ship = 2 Ba'al ships). uses more of the "special" goauld ships, like the Ha'tak'ko, and even his own version of Anubis' Mothership. still, his goauld self lacks the extreme brightness in combat that the Resistance has. also a wildcard, open to reason but not open to alliances.



naquahdriah can definately help, from blowing ori fortresses to hell, to destroying ori ships with nukes.


if we detonate nukes on shields, then we can get the amount of explosive force to kill their shields. however, this will require No Mans Land- esque nuke volleys or more

[locutes]

I'm up for this!

As for in Pegasus the Tau'ri remnant could get some help from the pegasgard, especially if we offer to try to help them with our knowledge of human physiology. And with the protection of the city shield and the Lantean database.

They could help us atleast a small bit and we them, more like an alliance out of desperation then wanting to help


Also I could see something like Pegasus splitting from the main Tau'ri.

What about sometimes the Milkyway group sends through a stolen or salvaged Ha'tak shield generator, that could be used to give a few Tau'ri bases in Pegasus a small bit of defence, even if it is only to buy time for them to evacuate the base. It could however create a nice be dependent up on eachother thingy.

also, in pegasus we could start to use wraith tech.
Like we managed to crash a cruiser/hive and we salvage a few things, like some weapons. And in the Milkyway we could put some Goa'uld weapons on the ships, if only to slightly increase the ship its offensive capabilities.

[thekillman]

nah, i think we shouldn't introduce the Pegasgard.


pegasus would be chaos. also, initially pegasus might help us, but without earth, the Tau'ri have basically zero production, so any resource spent stays spent. helping pegasus would be crazy.


we need some explanations here: our BC-304's have asgard tech. but who makes that technology? does earth make it? or do the asgard give it?

i would personally favor the asgard making it. i think we shouldn't be able to make uberly advanced tech just like that. the asgard would probably remain our source of resources.


i believe that the asgard degradation problem has to be solved. that way, they do not die out just like that, and that way, they can focus on beating the ori.


i think that as soon as the Shield Frequency Modulator (which, by the tau'ri, is seen as their superweapon against the ori), is operational, Adria should die at the hands of it. she is powerful, but if she ascends, there will never ever be any chance to defeat the ori.

i also think that they can be defeated, but it would require an expedition to Celestia. there, we simply nuke the city of the gods, to once and for all show that the ori are a lie. just imagine a light so bright, that night turns to day, that the entire planet will feel the shockwave, a sound deafening, a heat scorching people thousands of kilometers away, a form of annihilation so powerful, that the orists simply can not deny that the city of the gods has just been wiped out by a Gatebuster

[locutes]

that would be great!


yes, advanced tech should be supplied by the Asgard, we perhaps could make Goa'uld style tech in small amounts I'd say. Asgard is just TOO powerful for us to make that is.

I also like to stress that with good usage of Gao'uld tech we could be damned powerful and dangerous, even to the Asgard. We just do not use it well, nor did the Goa'uld.

Also I do not think the ships we've got should be big and powerful. But more like small and moderate in power but more then a match in groups IF used properly to an Illac Renin ship. And I say IF we use the ships to their full potential and with good tactics.

[Crazy Tom]

Thank you someone finally agrees with me on splitting up the Tauri. You know tom talking about that teltak reminds me about a game called starfleet command. There were these shuttles called missile shuttles which were loaded with six missiles and what you would do is launch it and when it got close to its target it would release all missiles right at the ship. It was enough to knock down shields and do some quick damage. Also I agree we should start examining hataks. So anyways dboy are you ok with splitting the tauri down the road? By the way I dont not like missiles that bypass shields. I will only be on board with it if it had a lets say 10% chance of doing that.

Actually, that's a god idea, becuase once the Ori start modulating their shields to stop our bypass warheads, then it's a battle between EW.

well will the missile not be effective against the ori shields?

one think about the ha´taks we don´t really have to upgrade there weapons, the one think the need to improve is there shields, a ship that will go down after one hit is not a very effective ship not to mention that our ship production will be VERY little in the beginning

I disagree, no matter how we go about this, Ori weapons will always be able to puncture any shields we can manufacture. A better idea would be to go unmanned, use UCAVs to deliver missiles and keep the carrier well back. Where it can jump away to safety.

one other thing should we have the resistance spread all over the galaxy whit many bases or just one main base and maybe few very small outposts her and there?

A single large base would be a bad idea, all the eggs in one basket and such, a cell structure, with many bases spread out all over the galaxy would give us both better coverage in terms of logistics, and make it harder to knock it all out.

I know but I still want to see them work together in the future. But at present we have absolutely no reason why they should split and I think at first should be the best time for limited contact.

I agree, however limited contact doesn't make much sense, given the ease with which we use Ancient communication tones, and the fact that it's airly easy to use a gate bridge or subspace relay to communicate, the two would be communicating like mad, sharing tactical and technological advances.

re: the missiles. maybe you missed my points. the Pegasgard in SGA could pass through ancient shields. then mckay countered. now, i'm thinking the same for the ori. except now, the ascended ori are gone, we should DEFINATELY kill Adria and not let her ascend, and then we can actually get some kills (if executed fast) before they know what happens and before they find out how we do it.

I still think the Ori would have left some sort of fail-safe in place, some sort of hidden ark, filled with human form Ori, ready to ascend if their brethren die out.

also, the nukes used on these "phase" missiles should be mark IX warheads, plasma drive, custom from back to front.

Let's not call them phase missiles, they're not. And I disagree, these missiles would be priority targets to point defense, as such, the "missile" would be more like a ship, cloaked, capable of sneaking up to the ship's shields, then de-cloaking, passing through the shield, and releasing mines.
These phase modulators would probably be quite expensive to use on a one shot missile.

should be effective for about one battle. we do kills, then the ori feel the pain of loss for once.

I don't think it would be that hopeless. At least we could do a concentrated strike across the Milky Way, hitting them all at once. Take out most of their mother ships.

no constant fighting, instead constant infiltration by tok'ra (they're the best), gathering knowledge, technology, and then striking, really really hard and then get back to the shadows.

Priors make this somewhat difficult, even for the Tok'Ra. Chances are, they won't make it very far up the command chain without being uncovered, so their usefulness would be limited.

-Tau'ri. Earth is out of the picture. now, the remains of the tau'ri are split up between pegasus and the milkyway. though initially, there's help from pegasus, the lack of counter-help makes them abandon it. the fleet consists of two ships: Deadalus and Odyssey. both have a ZPM, Deadalus from the Arctic, Odyssey the one it had. Oddy and deady can cloak, because of their ZPM. shield wise, toe-to-toe with ori and asgard ships. weapon-wise, still weak. they still have their alpha, beta, and gamma sites.

*we should take a few goauld drydocks, some ha'tak and tel'tak and al'kesh spare parts, and build a flying shipyard. that way, it's always safe. all population should eventually move to ships aswel*

What I'd like to say here, is that this lack of infrastructure would likely mean that Asuran style nanites would quickly gain popularity as a solution. We should look int this.

-Free Jaffa Nation. still struggling with their government, they are rapidly loosing planets to the Ori and Illac. however, the shrinking also makes it increasingly easy to govern. soon they will reach the ideal size, with plenty of ships, plenty of planets, plenty of resources, but no major player like we're used to. however, combining the knowledge and technology from dozens of goauld sytem lords, they managed to reconstruct the Ha'tak'ko of apophis, with help from the Tok'ra. this ship carries their government and all important people for the functioning of their faction. carries stronger guns, stronger shields, stronger everything. essentially a flying city. all ships upgraded by the Tok'ra, whom they finally dare trust enough. initially, ha'tak can take about one main ori blast.
Illac main ships outperform 1 to 3 (1 illac = 3 FJN)

Adding to that, their a warrior culture, so the war would actually bring them all closer together.

if we detonate nukes on shields, then we can get the amount of explosive force to kill their shields. however, this will require No Mans Land- esque nuke volleys or more

Cloaked missile buses.

also, in pegasus we could start to use wraith tech.
Like we managed to crash a cruiser/hive and we salvage a few things, like some weapons. And in the Milkyway we could put some Goa'uld weapons on the ships, if only to slightly increase the ship its offensive capabilities.

Wraith biotechnology would be a huge help to the Resistance and our own forces in Pegasus. If we can learn to use it.

i believe that the asgard degradation problem has to be solved. that way, they do not die out just like that, and that way, they can focus on beating the ori.

Perhaps the threat from the Ori will finally get them to abandon their aversion to full uploads into machine bodies.

i also think that they can be defeated, but it would require an expedition to Celestia. there, we simply nuke the city of the gods, to once and for all show that the ori are a lie. just imagine a light so bright, that night turns to day, that the entire planet will feel the shockwave, a sound deafening, a heat scorching people thousands of kilometers away, a form of annihilation so powerful, that the orists simply can not deny that the city of the gods has just been wiped out by a Gatebuster

That could work for a single planet, not the whole galaxy.

[locutes]

it would if we manage to upload the gat dialling macro from Ba'al into ori stargates

[Smallz]

I never proposed a split right away but instead over time relationships strain. The milky way are going to ask for constant help from pegasus but wont return any help because they see the ori more of a threat than the wraith. This could cause a split later on. The ori wont be defeted in five years it will be a long war.

[locutes]

A long war, dragging on for ages, perhaps like the Aceh-war, or the Eighty-year-war. That's what the Ori war should be, yet it should be even more fiercely fought than Vietnam war, WW2, WW1, Aceh-war and the Eighty-year-war together.

[Smallz]

If we do go the route of the bypass shield missiles then it should be a short time. Like Tom said just one massive strike throughout the galaxy on the mother ships destroying must but still leaving some around forcing the followers to start using left over goauld shipyards to make ships.

[Crazy Tom]

I never proposed a split right away but instead over time relationships strain. The milky way are going to ask for constant help from pegasus but wont return any help because they see the ori more of a threat than the wraith. This could cause a split later on. The ori wont be defeted in five years it will be a long war.

A long war, dragging on for ages, perhaps like the Aceh-war, or the Eighty-year-war. That's what the Ori war should be, yet it should be even more fiercely fought than Vietnam war, WW2, WW1, Aceh-war and the Eighty-year-war together.

Ugghh.... a war that long would significantly alter the face of the galaxy. We'd need to use nanotech or wraith bitek or both, and so would the Ori. Planetary cities and infrastructure would likely fade out due to it's vulnerability, and the galactic population would move into huge habitat fleets, built by the booming war economy.

We'd also probably see widespread use of automation, with mind uploading and personality copies used to make up for losses.

[locutes]

if you'd take a look at the eighty year war you'd see that it's not only war. Yet I can see what you mean and if we did that we'd create our cylons...

But I can see the Ori being so strong they simply overrun everything we can throw at them and after time they could even take Earth! at which time we really are nothing but a resistance.

[Smallz]

Why is it tom when we say its going to be a long war you freak out and say everything must now be automated. Production could be automated but manning the ships cant. You say we dont have enough people but the entire galaxy is full of humans and others that will help us against the Ori. Maybe its time to get them involved. And I think eighty years is too long but twenty to forty seems good.

[locutes]

I meant the eaight year war as an example as to how a war to be fought, not in years