'Search and Rescue' (501) General Discussion

[Skydiver]

i wouldn't term it as lazy, but i would as cold blooded and rude. it was a 'bite me' to the character by another.

we'll see what happens next week, but if their goal was to set woolsey up as the 'disliked usurper' they're well on their way

[Skydiver]

i gotta say, of course she's firing blanks. no reputable safety officer would allow an actor to fire real bullets up into the air, over the heads of dozens of cast and crew, where those bullets can fall down and kill people.
the blanks are dangerous enough

[Alipeeps]

I thought it was a good episode, but I wondered why Michael didn't have his men waiting for the team when they made it back to where their ship used to be -- he knew they were on board and he would know that they would be trying to get off the Wraith ship -- so why not be there waiting for them at their ship's original location?

But what would have been the point? They've blown up his hyperdrive, his ship is dead in the water with the power failing on much of the ship. It had been made an easy target for the Daedalus and it was a forgeone conclusion that pretty soon it was gonna get shot to bits. So what would be the point of Michael taking time to have men waiting to capture SGA1? What are they gonna do with SGA1 once they've caught em? There's no time to interrogate them or experiment on them and I doubt he wanted to waste time trying to capture them alive and force them to come with him - the most important thing for him right then was to survive... which meant, take a ship and get out of there. And if he takes the jumper a) he can cloak it and b) it won't get fired on by the F302s.. which a dart very well might.

This was such a pathetic episode, half the time under rubber, other half Sheppard was almost dying

Half the time under rubber?! What show were you watching cos I don't remember that bit?!

I didn't like the birthing scene. Very unrealistic. If Teyla was as far gone as all that, you'd think that would be the first thing she mentioned when Ronon, John, and Rodney busted into the cell. And if she wasn't that far gone, there's no way the labor would have gone that quickly, especially for a first time pregnancy.

TV birthing scenes are never realistic. And tbh, who'd want them to be? The real thing is long and painful and messy. Who'd want to watch that? It's certainly not what I tune into SGA for.

Also, note when Sheppard said that he had the most respect for Carter than any other Commander he'd served under, was that an indirect diss to Weir? Makes you think.

Nope. As mentioned previously, Weir was never his Commanding Officer - she was his superior in terms of the Atlantis expedition but she is not military and was never his CO.

I'm sure it won't...but in any case... The Athosians are a simple society who, I'm guessing, see no need to give their children more than one name (other then Teyla who is honoring John by naming her first born after him - so the hero-complex ). I would personally love for the Athosians to be a matriarchal society, making them even more different from the expedition than they already are as aliens from another galaxy living in a simple society.

Why do you assume simple agragian/hunter-gatherer society automatically means simple names? We don't really know any detail about the Athosians' society (even whether they are patriarchal or matriarchal, as evidenced by this debate! ) including their naming conventions. We're just working off Earth-based assumptions. An alien society could have any kind of naming system. E.g. in Iain M Bank's novel Against a Dark Background the naming conventions of the society were that the higher a class you were, the less names you had. So someone of the noble class had one name - e.g. Sharrow - whereas a very low class, labourer type had maybe four or five names. I remember the idea interesting me at the time because it was such an inversion of the usual conventions of e.g. the UK class system where those in the upper classes will often have much longer, more complex names than other levels of society.

Plot hole #3. The 'it takes the ancient gene to work ancient stuff' plot device bites them in the tushie yet again. It's a great limitation, they just need to remember that it's there when they write stuff

I don't think it's a plot hole, I think it's deliberately setting up events for later in the season. I doubt the writers would simply forget that only ATA gene users can fly jumpers - I think it's more likely they are foreshadowing a later plot arc which will confirm that during the time he had Carson clone, Michael manipulated his own DNA (which we know he has been doing) to give himself ATA ability.

For some reason i wondered why roodney took his coat with him, shouldnt it be full of mung? Ewwwww.

I thought that at first but then realised that in fact the baby was wrapped up in Rodney's jacket and what he picked up on the way out of the room was his discarded tac vest.

According to Teyla they grew up together as children (implying they were childhood friends) and since he also shared the gift, they were both treated as outcasts in a way so they had that bond between them.

I'm intruiged as to why you say the gift meant Teyla and Kanaan were treated as outcasts? Has that ever been referenced in canon or is it just fanon? I've always understood that the Athosians valued those who had the gift... and it never stopped Teyla or her father from becoming leader of the Athosians. I can understand that their shared experience of being "different" would bring Teyla and Kanaan together, but I don't think there's any implication that they were felt to be or treated as outcasts because of it?

The lucky shot was cringe worthy to me. The only way that could have been more ridiculas was if Rodney had fired it...accidently while trying to figure how to work the gun. Then fall on his butt from recoil.

You've lost me a bit there - what lucky shot are you referring to?

P.S. Got to agree with you that Midnight was a freaking awesome episode of Dr Who - and in particular the bit you mentioned was just fantastic! *ahem* Anyhoo. Topic.

You can't definitively say that what I might consider improvement will automatically be worse for others.

Actually, you pretty much can. You can see just from the discussion in this one thread alone what a wide range of opinions fans have. It's pretty much guaranteed that for every thing you would consider an improvement to the show, there would be at least one fan who HATED it. You can't ever please all of the people all of the time.

[EdenSG]

i wouldn't term it as lazy, but i would as cold blooded and rude. it was a 'bite me' to the character by another.

we'll see what happens next week, but if their goal was to set woolsey up as the 'disliked usurper' they're well on their way

Yeah, it did have that 'bite me' feel.
My husband's reaction (he loves Carter) was, "what a jerk (referring to Woolsey), she should have punched him out."

Woolsey was definitely rude, I don't know about cold blooded. I don't think Woolsey was out to get or hurt Carter. I think Woolsey had some nasty information to impart, so he did what he always has done in those situations, be the consummate adminitrator and was emotionless, direct, to the point and blunt - well I guess one could argue that does makes him a little cold blooded.

It will be interesting to see what happens next week, which is exactly one of the reasons why I think the writers did it this way. I think the scene was meant to be abrupt, without much detail in part to provide a little ‘shocker’ to entice viewers to come back next week to see what happened. Many viewers might see that scene and say, ‘OMG, they are getting rid of Carter! Why! I will have to turn in next week to find out what happens!’ Also, the focus of the episode was not about Carter leaving. I am hoping, because I really feel they need to, address her leaving a bit more in the next episode.

I might as well add my other thoughts on the Carter & Woolsey scene:
Woolsey could have asked her into a meeting room, been nice, held her hand, told her what a wonderful job she did and let her down easy; but why? Yes, I think the character deserves it but I don't think the character needs it. Carter is a big girl; she has proven herself very capable in the 11 plus years she has been in SG. I have more respect for Carter as a character than to have some token scene just so she can be treated with kit gloves and lauded for all her achievements. As a viewer and a Carter fan I don’t need to see that – I already know she is good. Carter is a strong and important female character. It would have been pandering to the character and I don’t want to see that. It could have easily made her look weak and be pitied. Carter is tough, she is strong, she is a professional, and that is what came across to me, and to me that is what is most important. Woolsey acted like Woolsey always has, that’s what I would expect. As you said, 'if their goal was to set woolsey up as the 'disliked usurper' they're well on their way'

[Reiko]

You've lost me a bit there - what lucky shot are you referring to?

» Vega's is who Jackie was referring to. 'blanks' aside, she wasn't even aiming (or at least correctly), thus the 'lucky shot'.

[Skydiver]

i don't think he n eeded to kiss her tush before he fired her. But protocol is usually to fire someone privately, not in front of a room full of peers

[PG15]

i gotta say, of course she's firing blanks. no reputable safety officer would allow an actor to fire real bullets up into the air, over the heads of dozens of cast and crew, where those bullets can fall down and kill people.
the blanks are dangerous enough

Yeah, that would just be common sense. Heh.

So the question remains: do blanks = less recoil?

[LoneStar1836]

Good point. I suppose it's a shorthand of sorts.

Uhhhh...on topic comment....hmmmm....I need to watch the ep again to get a better feel for the show. I'm glad they showed the rescue from the collapsed building, rather than showing the Team in the infirmary and talking about the rescue.

Part of me hopes they address the Tagan v. Torren naming. The other part hopes not.

Well I read something the other day talking about a person's knowledge of vocabulary.

Our greatest knowledge bank of vocabulary is our reading vocabulary. Followed by our listening vocabulary. Followed by our speaking vocab. And dragging up the end is our writing vocabulary. I think that was the right order. Course I ought to have remembered that from college as I took several educational classes dealing with learning styles, etc.


And yes having shown them after having been rescued was not the way to go. I liked that the story picked up right where it left off and they showed them being trapped. Especially considering that I figured the writers would take the lazy (there's that word again though maybe I should say unimaginative. I don't like those other synonyms that were posted up thread ) way out and have them beamed out in the nick of time. But hey they proved me wrong. So good for them.

As far as the name thing. I'm going to go with Tagan was her mother's name. Teyla was leader of her people after all. I don't need any farther explanation even if some one screwed up and initially meant for Tagan to be the father's name in Rising. It could very well be a matriarchal society. I really didn't care about the name biz other than I do disagree with the use of John.

Oookay...I wasn't saying you were bashing the show. And I wasn't saying people who disagree with me shouldn't post. I hope that's not what you thought I was saying.

I didn't think that's what you were getting at.

And although I do not have scientific studies to show any changes/improvements to you would be considered changes/non-improvements to others, based upon the discussions I have seen over the past year or two here, every idea presented by a fan or group of fans has been countered or rejected by another fan or group of fans.

"Half the world hates what half the world does every day" kinda thing.

Well I didn't say that wouldn't happen. I was just pointing out your definitive use of "will be" to imply a certainty. Though I suppose there would always be at least one decenter out there who would pipe up and disapprove of something I might think was an improvement no mater how innocuous or unimportant it may be to the bigger picture...like the color of Shep's shirt or something. So I guess it could be a certainty.

That doesn't mean you can't have an opinion or express it. I wasn't saying that at all. I was just expressing a distaste for a very overused word, not the person or opinion behind it - which is why I made a point of discussing the "lazy" topic in a separate thread from my reply to another poster.

But you still called Ronja out her choice of words...a choice of words that weren't flattering towards the show or writers. I'm sure there are a number of words that people on this board use to praise the show and writers with that are over used as well, but there is no need to point that out either. And with tensions as high as they seem to run on this board over in the Stargate sections (or that seems to be a big problem as I hardly hang out in this part of the board other than to read maybe a couple of threads that may catch my eye or occasionally comment on the latest episode if I feel like it.) things like that ought to be avoided.

And well I hang with Ronja in other threads over in Off Topic. So if she had been some unknown poster I might not have said anything. She chose lazy as her adjective. Wouldn't have used it for that particular scene myself as they would be some nastier choice words, but I've used that word myself plenty of times. We aren't writing English term papers on this board so I don't expect to see people breaking out the thesaurus though I do occasionally trying to look for a better word to describe my thoughts but a lot of other times I'm just lazy and go with simple and, most likely, over used words.

So....uh....it's pretty darn hot here in Texas this summer, eh?

Yup. That dang high that has moved back over east TX a couple a days ago is killing us with the high heat. Not to mention that the yard is nice and crispy as we haven't had a good rain in my neck of the woods in over a month. We are working on a nice drought this year so far.

[Skydiver]

Yeah, that would just be common sense. Heh.

So the question remains: do blanks = less recoil?

i'm not sure. blanks have the same ballistic charge as a loaded bullet. the only difference is, instead of a piece of metal slug, the bullet is capped by some sort of 'easy' to break plug to keep the gunpowder in.

that's why a blank can kill you if fired at point blank range. the 'boom' is still enough force to kill.

theoretically, the gunpowder would have a recoil, whether there's a bullet or not, but less of one, i would think, since there is no actual slug involved

[Skydiver]

i would say, given these two articles, even though one is on wiki, yes, a weapon firing blanks would have some sort of recoil, less or more I couldn't guess

that's probably a good question to ask bam bam to ask one of his stunt friends

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mblanks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_(cartridge)

I remeber the jon erik hexum thing. I used to watch that show and, iirc, they recast after he was killed but the show ended shortly there after

[EdenSG]

i don't think he n eeded to kiss her tush before he fired her. But protocol is usually to fire someone privately, not in front of a room full of peers

I don’t really consider Carter to be “fired.” Officers in the armed forces are reassigned all the time – it doesn’t mean they did a bad job, it doesn’t mean they are fired. But whether she was fired, reassigned, or whatever, I do agree the proper way to do it is in private. Under any circumstances the IOA is not any fun to deal with and they, as well as Woolsey, have never been known for their tact. They have always mistreated people in SGC. So at least that part was consistent.

[jyh]

the music was awesome, very moving and emotional.

the visual effects were great, if not sometimes a bit show-offy

Was it just me, or were there parts (I don't recall, haven't seen it since the premiere) parts in which there was just a basic drum-beat? Seemed kinda Battlestar-ish to me. Other than that, I didn't really notice the music... I rarely do. But I did like the visual effect of "pulling away" from the rubble and the planet, and the solar system and the galaxy, and on and on. Kinda cool.

[LoneStar1836]

But what would have been the point? They've blown up his hyperdrive, his ship is dead in the water with the power failing on much of the ship. It had been made an easy target for the Daedalus and it was a forgeone conclusion that pretty soon it was gonna get shot to bits. So what would be the point of Michael taking time to have men waiting to capture SGA1? What are they gonna do with SGA1 once they've caught em? There's no time to interrogate them or experiment on them and I doubt he wanted to waste time trying to capture them alive and force them to come with him - the most important thing for him right then was to survive... which meant, take a ship and get out of there. And if he takes the jumper a) he can cloak it and b) it won't get fired on by the F302s.. which a dart very well might.

Shoot and kill them on sight and take Teyla...or since she had had the baby, kill her too and just take the baby. Mwwahhahaha. *cough* Umm sorry....got carried away there. Who doesn't dream of galactic domination that hinges on a special baby?

Anyway, he apparently wasn't that committed to his plan of galactic domination if he had no interest in even attempting to escape with the baby, imo.

I'm intruiged as to why you say the gift meant Teyla and Kanaan were treated as outcasts? Has that ever been referenced in canon or is it just fanon? I've always understood that the Athosians valued those who had the gift... and it never stopped Teyla or her father from becoming leader of the Athosians. I can understand that their shared experience of being "different" would bring Teyla and Kanaan together, but I don't think there's any implication that they were felt to be or treated as outcasts because of it?

My mistake. Outcast was way too strong of a descriptor.


But I'm referring to this conversation that was in Kindred part 1:



TEYLA: We missed something. I am certain of it.

CARTER: I wanna believe you, Teyla, but I’m a scientist. I’m trained to think critically.

TEYLA: There is a possible explanation. Kanaan has the Gift – the same ability that I do.

CARTER: The Wraith D.N.A.?

TEYLA: Yes. Among my people, the Gift is considered useful, but it also sets one apart. It can be difficult. Kanaan was the only one who could truly understand what it felt like.

CARTER: It brought you together.

TEYLA: It is something we have shared since childhood.



So they weren't outcast from the group in the literal sense but they may have possibly felt like it in a way sometimes because they were different from everyone else because only they understood what it was like to have the gift. Or that's the way I read it anyway. *shrug*

People may have treated them a little differently even though they did value the gift as it helped to save peoples' lives, but it was also a "gift" given to them by the enemy. Though I can't recall the particulars of the episode that dealt with this topic in Season 1 so I don't remember if they knew that or not.

[Skydiver]

kinda like...remember the movie Practical Magic? the sisters that were witches. real witches.

they were 'different' and thus teased and mocked because of it.

and i'm sure the movie portrayal of the teasing would have been far different were the two girls exhibiting abilities of evil witches that were dominating and eating their friends

as children, i'm sure teyla and kanaan were feared for their ability to sense the wraith. however, as they matured and their ability saved a few lives, i'm sure their ability was grudgingly admired/respected

[LoneStar1836]

kinda like...remember the movie Practical Magic? the sisters that were witches. real witches.

they were 'different' and thus teased and mocked because of it.

and i'm sure the movie portrayal of the teasing would have been far different were the two girls exhibiting abilities of evil witches that were dominating and eating their friends

as children, i'm sure teyla and kanaan were feared for their ability to sense the wraith. however, as they matured and their ability saved a few lives, i'm sure their ability was grudgingly admired/respected

I know which movie you are talking about, Sky, but I've never actually seen it.

But yeah as kids, they may have been picked on by the other ones. Kids can be cruel to each other, especially to the ones who are different.