'Search and Rescue' (501) General Discussion

[Jill_Ion]

But you still called Ronja out her choice of words...a choice of words that weren't flattering towards the show or writers. I'm sure there are a number of words that people on this board use to praise the show and writers with that are over used as well, but there is no need to point that out either. And with tensions as high as they seem to run on this board over in the Stargate sections (or that seems to be a big problem as I hardly hang out in this part of the board other than to read maybe a couple of threads that may catch my eye or occasionally comment on the latest episode if I feel like it.) things like that ought to be avoided.

No, I wasn't calling Ronja out on anything. I made a point of saying that. Please do not try to imply that I was attacking her or trying to cause a fight. I wasn't. That's the truth.

That word happened to come up. I gave my opinion on that word in the context of "lazy writer." Could've been anyone saying it. I don't feel wrong for giving my opinion on usage of a particular word. If someone else has problems with "excellent," "plothole," "awesome," then they can do or not do whatever they want, within the rules of this board.

Since I haven't seen an explosion anywhere because of my few sentences and li'l ol' opinion about "lazy" writers, then I'm gonna just go with no harm/no foul.

Damn, this is so over.

Gonna go back to watching S4 DVDs in peace and solitude. Stay cool.

[LoneStar1836]

I'm not saying you attacked her or were being mean or anything of the sort as you had already noted in the other post, but from my point of view (and I'm not trying to be confrontational), it does get somewhat tiresome on my side of the coin as well when people who may express some kind of criticism of the show or the writers gets called on it. And yes I'm going to stick with using that term "called out" because you are pointing out that I and others have used that word as a means of criticism more times than apparently you like.

You may have just picked her post at random to call attention to the use of the word "lazy", but just which people on this board generally use that word to describe some of the writing the writers churn out? Generally the people who may not be ones to express positive praise for the show all the time, and I'm one of those people. (I don't know if Ronja is cuz I hardly ever see her posts about SGA.)

I could be ugly and call that getting a dig in at those of us who may not always agree with the writing by saying we are too lazy to bother looking up a synonym for the word "lazy" when we use it as criticism in a post, but you seem like a nice poster so your intent was most likely not malicious, but the same can not be said of all posters.

So essentially you could have quoted a post of mine that used the word "lazy" to make your point, and you would have basically gotten the same kind of response that I gave in my other posts...that you called me out on my use of that word. You just happened to quote her post and not mine.


Hey you picked the word, not me. But tonight I just didn't feel like rolling over and ignoring it....



Do I need to say something on topic now? Sorry Sky for going OT. How about this. I quite enjoyed this episode. Now a days on SGA I like to watch for some good character moments on the show and this one had some nice ones as I pointed out in my first post on this thread. Granted I still had my problems with the ep, but not enough to make me dislike the episode. The season has started off nicely so far....though I have to chuckle at the thought of this coming Friday's ep. dealing with Keller but woohoo Carson gets defrosted...for an episode anyway....

[Alipeeps]

My mistake. Outcast was way too strong of a descriptor.

But I'm referring to this conversation that was in Kindred part 1:

TEYLA: We missed something. I am certain of it.

CARTER: I wanna believe you, Teyla, but I’m a scientist. I’m trained to think critically.

TEYLA: There is a possible explanation. Kanaan has the Gift – the same ability that I do.

CARTER: The Wraith D.N.A.?

TEYLA: Yes. Among my people, the Gift is considered useful, but it also sets one apart. It can be difficult. Kanaan was the only one who could truly understand what it felt like.

CARTER: It brought you together.

TEYLA: It is something we have shared since childhood.

So they weren't outcast from the group in the literal sense but they may have possibly felt like it in a way sometimes because they were different from everyone else because only they understood what it was like to have the gift. Or that's the way I read it anyway. *shrug*

People may have treated them a little differently even though they did value the gift as it helped to save peoples' lives, but it was also a "gift" given to them by the enemy. Though I can't recall the particulars of the episode that dealt with this topic in Season 1 so I don't remember if they knew that or not.

See I couldn't remember that exact conversation but that's what I thought you were referring to - that they had the gift in common and it brought them together. I don't think that implies they were necessarily treated badly by the Athosians, more that they themselves found it difficult at times being "different". When Teyla says the gift "sets one apart" she could very well mean the opposite of being "outcasts", it could mean that those with the gift are somewhat revered - which can be just as difficult to deal with, especially at a young age. Remember, until the events of Season 1's The Gift, the Athosians didn't know where the gift came from - they had no idea it related to Wraith DNA so there wouldn't have been that stigma attached. They also didn't know it was possible for those with the gift to contact or influence the Wraith - to them it was simply a useful early warning system and probably something they were glad of having.

At the risk of being OT, I will just weigh in for a second on the "lazy writing" debate - my understanding of Jill_Ion's post (and I have to say I kinda agree with her) is that the term is often used as a criticism when people don't like the choices the writers/TPTB have made. Now, that's not to say that it's not at times a valid criticism to say that there is lazy writing (there's certainly a couple of apparent plot holes in S&R, for example) but because the phrase seems to be used so commonly it is in danger, to me, of becoming a euphemism for "I didn't like what the writers did here". I'm not saying the writers don't write lazily or badly at times, more that just because a fan doesn't like something, that doesn't necessarily make that something bad or "lazy" writing.

That's not intended to be any kind of dig about fans who criticise the show. We all have our own preferences and things we like and don't like; I just don't think we can blame everything we don't like about the show on "lazy writing". Sometimes the writing may be fine, it may just be a creative choice that we personally don't like. And that's fine. We're entitled not to like it. Some people don't like the John/Teyla scene at the start of this episode (for various reasons, one of which being they don't like the hints of ship and don't find that ship appealing/believable). That's their prerogative. But does it make that scene "lazy writing"? I found the scene a really good bit of writing (IMO, of course) with an increasingly unsettled, dreamlike feeling and a great, unexpected way to start the episode rather than diving straight back into the aftermath of TLM.

[LoneStar1836]

See I couldn't remember that exact conversation but that's what I thought you were referring to - that they had the gift in common and it brought them together. I don't think that implies they were necessarily treated badly by the Athosians, more that they themselves found it difficult at times being "different". When Teyla says the gift "sets one apart" she could very well mean the opposite of being "outcasts", it could mean that those with the gift are somewhat revered - which can be just as difficult to deal with, especially at a young age. Remember, until the events of Season 1's The Gift, the Athosians didn't know where the gift came from - they had no idea it related to Wraith DNA so there wouldn't have been that stigma attached. They also didn't know it was possible for those with the gift to contact or influence the Wraith - to them it was simply a useful early warning system and probably something they were glad of having.

I get what you are saying and that very well may be the case, but her statements are not exactly clear so they can be open to somewhat different interpretation I suppose. I had just viewed that ep the day before so it was fresh in my mind, and that was just my initial interpretation of the scene.

Thanks for the reminder on the other episode. It's been quite a while since I've seen that one. I didn't think they knew about the Wraith DNA but I wasn't going to say for sure. I wonder if since now that they know the gift's origins, do any of the others look upon it differently now?

Some people don't like the John/Teyla scene at the start of this episode (for various reasons, one of which being they don't like the hints of ship and don't find that ship appealing/believable). That's their prerogative. But does it make that scene "lazy writing"? I found the scene a really good bit of writing (IMO, of course) with an increasingly unsettled, dreamlike feeling and a great, unexpected way to start the episode rather than diving straight back into the aftermath of TLM.

Well I didn't like it because I absolutely do not like main character ship on Stargate. It was handled very badly on SG-1 (plus I never saw it) so I don't want it on SGA because in my opinion the writers just cannot writer a good one properly.

I do agree and I like that the show opened in that rather surreal way and then transitioned into the present reality. I thought that was interesting and give the writers props for choosing to use that as an opening scene. BUT. I did not like the particular setting they used.

To me it implies some kind of romantic feeling to it bordering on shippy implication. Of course it can be written off as it was all in Sheppard's head since the real Teyla was not present and wasn't saying those things so any implied ship is one sided, but I don't want any implied present or future ship at all. I don't want to be subjected to that again and I'm afraid that is where they are going. I just want them to be good friend...not romantic friends. Why couldn't they have used some kind of setting/activity that is something they both having in common and actually do...as friends. Something that is familiar...like sparing or watching dvds (course he and Ronon prolly do that more as I'm not sure they have ever implied they do that anymore other than in Rising when they were watching Shep's football tape) or something. My point being just chose something a little less suggestive because I don't want to go down that road again...the only saving grace, if they do go down that road, is that she doesn't have to call him "Sir"....

So I wouldn't call that lazy writing but rather a poor writing choice within a very good writing choice. Course that's just my opinion.

[ddc]

My 2 cents on the baby's name. It's pretty clear that the Athosians have great respect for their ancestors (the Ancients and their own, direct ancestors) and naming a child after a grandparent would fit (I have several cousins with the same 1st names/feminine variations on the same, because they were all named after their grandfather). Or maybe the Athosians just don't use "Junior", either to avoid confusion or a taboo on a child having the same name as a living parent.

[sweetsamurai]

The zooming out shot is taken from Battlestar Galactica, lol - but ntherless, an excellent shot indeed.

Loved this episode - as someone who recognised season 4's awful existence except a few episodes - I still hoped season 5 would be good.

And this episode was brilliant.

I liked John and Ronan bonding in the rubble and the whole Butch Sun dance - "let's shoot till we die" thing was kool.

Loved the space fight - especially, when they targeted the wraith hive ship's hyperdrive - that was awesome!

I'm glad they didn't allow Michael to take the baby because that would have annoyed me hearing Teyla go on and on about her baby - let's hope we don't have to listen to more baby talk though.

I thought Keller was sweet though I am still not happy with the patheticness that was bringin back clone Carson. I still want carson.

I like the new girl though Lorne is still my favourite extra guy. The shot with her shooting the dart was kool.

[g.o.d]

The zooming out shot is taken from Battlestar Galactica, lol - but ntherless, an excellent shot indeed.

it was better in BSG. This SGA cartoon style is just awful

[Mitchell82]

The zooming out shot is taken from Battlestar Galactica, lol - but ntherless, an excellent shot indeed.

Loved this episode - as someone who recognised season 4's awful existence except a few episodes - I still hoped season 5 would be good.

And this episode was brilliant.

I liked John and Ronan bonding in the rubble and the whole Butch Sun dance - "let's shoot till we die" thing was kool.

Loved the space fight - especially, when they targeted the wraith hive ship's hyperdrive - that was awesome!

I'm glad they didn't allow Michael to take the baby because that would have annoyed me hearing Teyla go on and on about her baby - let's hope we don't have to listen to more baby talk though.

I thought Keller was sweet though I am still not happy with the patheticness that was bringin back clone Carson. I still want carson.

I like the new girl though Lorne is still my favourite extra guy. The shot with her shooting the dart was kool.

Couldn't agree more this was an excellent episode.

[Sp!der]

yeah....go Woolsey, go... you're going to rock as leader of atlantis, ...hope they will continue to make a wonderfull season like 4...well the first episode was just awesome...loved that lorne was more involved with rodney..and how rodney tried to help teyla to make the birth of the baby....just awesome!!!! and the fight ..wow ...go one I can't wait till its friday.

[Mack_1]

Half the time under rubber?! What show were you watching cos I don't remember that bit?!

LOL I did wrote that didn't I; I meant to say rubble

But seriously..

The first 5 mind Sheppard dreaming about his friends then he wakes up and we see Ronon and Him under rubble.

The is Mckay and Lorne guy I like for like 7 min.

Then 1 mint with Carter and com, organizing a rescue mission.

Back to Mckey and Lorne' Then team searching above them, they rescue them and then we get the “amazing” scene were the new girl shots down a ship from the grown and she is the only one with that super gun (whatever it was) yeap! pretty realistic!

Then we got some view of the big ship and them in the jumpers, and back to Shepp and Ronon still buried.

So after almost 35 min into the show they are beam out, they spend the next 5 feeding us the "super shepp" thing and hes going off to the rescue of his friend, regardless that he is about to die from internal bleeding; then they walk around like headless chicken for next 10 min instead of grabbing Teyla out of there and go back to the ship, they could have blown the powers source in their way out instead of wasting time chatting with Teyla about the baby “coming”, That’s what Ronon finished doing in the end and then their ship got stolen LOL

[WhumpSheppie]

I had quite high expectations before watching this episode,not knowing exactly what to expect.But,it turned out that I didn't need to worry AT ALL! It was truly an awesome episode,let us hope that this means that a new great season awaits us.

[Ronja]

I'm posting this separately, so it doesn't look like I'm attacking Ronja. Cuz I'm not. Just addressing an issue in general.

I don't expect people will stop using the term "lazy" for the writers when the show doesn't go their way, but I am quite sick of it. It seems quite lazy of the fans not to try and come up with a new word once in a while, eh? Instead, people glom onto a word and use it ad nauseum as if they can't go to dictionary.com or thesaurus.com, much less use an actual dictionary or thesaurus.

I get an amusing image in my mind when fans repeatedly say "lazy writers." I picture the Team sitting around an empty table on an undecorated set, starting a conversation and then trailing off into mumbling and silence.

*phew* Well after reading through all these posts I just want to answer this.

I know that wasn't directed at me, as much as it was directed at my dumb ass comment without giving any explanation as to why I think that way... so here goes.

This all comes down to emotions for me, or lack thereof, in the Stargate universe. True happiness, real anger and love. I miss that more often than not in SG. (I think I'm still in denial over the non existing feelings displayed in Continuum that's why this annoys me ever more, but let's not get into that now) When you watch other shows you get so see all that. For us it's always happening "behind the scenes".

So anyway I felt this was just yet another dodging the bullet kind of moment for the writers. Yeah let's skip all the fighting to keep Sam in Atlantis and saying goodbye and actually give the character a worthy send off, no, let's have Woolsey fire her now that's she's back on Earth anyway - infront of everyone, without an explanation - and that's the end of that. I know Sam is not dying, but come on, at least give us something, you know? So yeah I blame the writers because I know they can do better, and don't know why they didn't...


I babble a lot eh, I'm gonna turn into LS soon Hi btw

[bluealien]

Well I didn't like it because I absolutely do not like main character ship on Stargate. It was handled very badly on SG-1 (plus I never saw it) so I don't want it on SGA because in my opinion the writers just cannot writer a good one properly.

The scene between Shep and Teya was very well done IMO.. I didn't have a problem either with how it was handled on SG1, except for the Pete/Sam thing but Jack/Sam didnt bother me at all, eventhough I don't ship them.

I do agree and I like that the show opened in that rather surreal way and then transitioned into the present reality. I thought that was interesting and give the writers props for choosing to use that as an opening scene. BUT. I did not like the particular setting they used.

The first scene set the tone for the rest of the ep and I as I said before I loved how it was done, it certaintly had shippy overtones but you can interpret it as friendship as well. It set in motion, particulary with the inclusion of Ford as well, just how guilt ridden John was about the loss of previous team mates.. so here was the poor guy imagining a nice quiet and intimate moment with one of his closest friends, and then reality sets in and he wakes up in the middle of a nightmare.

To me it implies some kind of romantic feeling to it bordering on shippy implication.

Yep and I have no problem with that.

Of course it can be written off as it was all in Sheppard's head since the real Teyla was not present and wasn't saying those things so any implied ship is one sided, but I don't want any implied present or future ship at all. I don't want to be subjected to that again and I'm afraid that is where they are going. I just want them to be good friend...not romantic friends.

Well yes it was Sheppard's dream so we can only take Teyla's actions in the context of how Sheppard saw her.. The writers have hinted at John/Teyla since season one and I'm sure it will remain so. I like the interaction between Shep and Teyla.. we tend to see the softer and more emotional side of Sheppard and I like this. I don't want him just to be the stoic emotionless hero who gets accused of kirking every now and then.. so I have no problem with these nice little scenes between John and Teyla.

Why couldn't they have used some kind of setting/activity that is something they both having in common and actually do...as friends. Something that is familiar...like sparing or watching dvds (course he and Ronon prolly do that more as I'm not sure they have ever implied they do that anymore other than in Rising when they were watching Shep's football tape) or something.

Because the writers wanted to show a more emotional side to Shep and if you don't want to see it as shippy then you can easily interpret it as friendship.

My point being just chose something a little less suggestive because I don't want to go down that road again...the only saving grace, if they do go down that road, is that she doesn't have to call him "Sir"....

You are entitled not to like anything shippy but there are those who like it, but in the end the writers will go down the route they want anyway... which I believe will be just hints between the two of them .. until maybe the end of the series..

So I wouldn't call that lazy writing but rather a poor writing choice within a very good writing choice. Course that's just my opinion.

I agree it's not lazy writing but I don't see it as a poor writing choice either. It's just a matter of perspective really... someones "bad" writing choice is someone else's "good". It's all a matter of perspective and different opinions..

[PG15]

About the Sam thing; it's not that the writers can do better, it's that they can do it differently. Every other character departure has been done with great fanfare and focus, and I guess for whatever reason the writers decided to switch it up this time with something that's a lot more...normal.

Funnily enough, the only other character that I can think of who got a similar, "boring" send off was Jack.

[mapsc]

About the Sam thing; it's not that the writers can do better, it's that they can do it differently. Every other character departure has been done with great fanfare and focus, and I guess for whatever reason the writers decided to switch it up this time with something that's a lot more...normal.

Funnily enough, the only other character that I can think of who got a similar, "boring" send off was Jack.

I don't think Sam had a "boring" send off. I thought she had a "humiliating" send off. She was publicly relieved of command in the SGC Gateroom, her old "stomping ground".

It is interesting though. RDA and AT both chose to leave.

Mike