Sheppard - Does He Save The Day Too Often?

[ykickamoocow]

The Siege: Part 3 -- Sheppard, Caldwell, McKay

Teyla saved Atlantis here aswell.

Michael -- ?

I think Sheppard rescued teyla in this episode.

Season 4

Spoiler:

Travelers -- no one, although Larrin and Sheppard both get to save each other

Sheppard is certainly portrayed as a hero in this episode.

[ykickamoocow]

Even if I'm off on a bunch of them, it's still not 98% Sheppard though.

Yes but Sheppard is pretty much the only person who does the heroic self sacrifice thing. Who else has done that in the 4 full seasons of Atlantis?

[FallenAngelII]

Let's see, I tried to do a list. Problem is, I can't always remember who technically "saved the day." So, if anyone can....

I'll fill in the blanks as far as I can remember.

Childhood's End -- John, IIRC
Poisoning the Well -- No one, really. They lost.
Hot Zone -- Sheppard and McKay? - Rodney came up with the solution (IIRC), but it was John who performed the action (as usual)
Before I Sleep -- old!Weir
The Siege Pt 2 -- the SGC, Sheppard goes off to be heroic - John gets the biggest heroic action: Sacrificing his life to save the expedition.
Duet -- Mckay, Zelenka? - Radek. Rodney barely did anything, remember?
Aurora -- Sheppard and McKay - Mostly John, though, IIRC.
The Lost Boys/The Hive -- Sheppard
Epiphany -- Sheppard, McKay - Rodney didn't save the day. Rodney didn't do anything. He just figured out that it was a time dilation field, then they went through the field and then John saved the day followed by Teer allowing them to leave. So Rodney did zippo to save the day here (but the group tried to save John).
Critical Mass -- John. He shot Caldwell with the taser, allowing Caldwell to speak instead of the Goa'uld.

Misbegotten -- Team effort
Progeny -- McKay? - John was the one to jettison Niam, though.

Season 4
(no spoiler tags needed as this is the season five forum)

Tabula Rasa -- team, but mostly Teyla and Ronon - Or Rodney.
This Mortal Coil -- Clone Idiots - clone!John should've volunteered to do it alone.

[miniglik]

Teyla saved Atlantis here aswell.




I think Sheppard rescued teyla in this episode.




Sheppard is certainly portrayed as a hero in this episode.

I really am brain fuzzed on some of these. How did Teyla save Atlantis? And was it both Ronon and Sheppard saving Teyla in Michael?

As to the last, I thought he was, but I wasn't sure if it counts as "saved the day."

[ykickamoocow]

I really am brain fuzzed on some of these. How did Teyla save Atlantis?

She convinced the Wraith that Atlantis had been destroyed.

[Yaskaleh]

Well as has been said, sheppard is the main hero of SGA. He also carries one of the most potent Ancient genes, only beaten by O'neill. He is the closest Stargate got to what the Ancients should have been like.

[miniglik]

Yes but Sheppard is pretty much the only person who does the heroic self sacrifice thing. Who else has done that in the 4 full seasons of Atlantis?

Ronon held a knife to his own throat to save Teyla and Sheppard in "Sateda." Rodney walked into the cloud thingy with his "hail mary" in "Hide and Seek." Rodney shot himself full of drugs and took out two armed guards to try and get the team help in "the Hive." Weir sacrificed herself for the cause in "Lifeline." Exploding tumor. Zelenka kept working while he was potentially bleeding to death in Adrift. McKay tried to feed himself to a Wraith in Miller's Crossing. Ronon and Teal'c did the Die Hard thing in Midway...

I'll fill in the blanks as far as I can remember.

Childhood's End -- John, IIRC
Poisoning the Well -- No one, really. They lost.
Hot Zone -- Sheppard and McKay? - Rodney came up with the solution (IIRC), but it was John who performed the action (as usual)
Before I Sleep -- old!Weir
The Siege Pt 2 -- the SGC, Sheppard goes off to be heroic - John gets the biggest heroic action: Sacrificing his life to save the expedition.
Duet -- Mckay, Zelenka? - Radek. Rodney barely did anything, remember?
Aurora -- Sheppard and McKay - Mostly John, though, IIRC.
The Lost Boys/The Hive -- Sheppard
Epiphany -- Sheppard, McKay - Rodney didn't save the day. Rodney didn't do anything. He just figured out that it was a time dilation field, then they went through the field and then John saved the day followed by Teer allowing them to leave. So Rodney did zippo to save the day here (but the group tried to save John).
Critical Mass -- John. He shot Caldwell with the taser, allowing Caldwell to speak instead of the Goa'uld.

Misbegotten -- Team effort
Progeny -- McKay? - John was the one to jettison Niam, though.

Season 4
(no spoiler tags needed as this is the season five forum)

Tabula Rasa -- team, but mostly Teyla and Ronon - Or Rodney.
This Mortal Coil -- Clone Idiots - clone!John should've volunteered to do it alone.

Oooh. Thanks.

[Southern Red]

Thats leads to another interesting question. Has Sheppard ever set out to do anything and failed (other than not rescuing Colonel Sumner in the 1st episode). I cant remember a single example where Sheppard set out to do something and failed to it since the first episode.

Yes. He told Carter that if Weir was alive he'd find her. Some of us are still waiting for the heroic self sacrificial move that brings her back. Technically, I guess he never set out to save her so he didn't fail.

Well as has been said, sheppard is the main hero of SGA. He also carries one of the most potent Ancient genes, only beaten by O'neill. He is the closest Stargate got to what the Ancients should have been like.

Which they have decided to completely ignore lately.

[Linzi]

Well as has been said, sheppard is the main hero of SGA. He also carries one of the most potent Ancient genes, only beaten by O'neill. He is the closest Stargate got to what the Ancients should have been like.

I believe Weir said in Rising that Sheppard had the strongst manifestation of the Ancient gene they'd come across, especially the fact that he could operate ancient tech effortlessly, which nobody else, including O'Neill could do. The whole point of Sheppard going to the Pegasus Galaxy was because of him having the strongest ancient gene, as you say. So it was inevitable he'd end up saving the day by flying things of Ancient design when others couldn't etc.. thus saving the day.

Looking at the list of episodes, it looks to me as if I have a different opinion about who saves the day at times to others. Sometimes I think it's a real team effort and everyone helps. It's often a combined effort, but, sure, Shep's the one who takes the physical risks, and to a lesser extent Ronon and Teyla do. McKay rarely does, because that's not his area of expertise. He very often comes up with great plans to save the day, and uses his genius to save the day.

What does also seem strange to me, is that often we get two episodes in a row where Sheppard saves the day ultimately, and suddenly he's doing it all the time. If you look back over the past seasons, he doesn't do it more than McKay, though, yes the WAY he saves the day is different to McKay, because they're different characters with different skills.

However, I'm more than happy for Sheppard NOT to save the day and need to be rescued himself as he's been rendered helpless. Bring it on....loads of times! Oh, but then perhaps some would complain he wasn't doing enough and was a liability, always needing to be rescued by others?

[miniglik]

I believe Weir said in Rising that Sheppard had the strongst manifestation of the Ancient gene they'd come across, especially the fact that he could operate ancient tech effortlessly, which nobody else, including O'Neill could do. The whole point of Sheppard going to the Pegasus Galaxy was because of him having the strongest ancient gene, as you say. So it was inevitable he'd end up saving the day by flying things of Ancient design when others couldn't etc.. thus saving the day.

Looking at the list of episodes, it looks to me as if I have a different opinion about who saves the day at times to others. Sometimes I think it's a real team effort and everyone helps. It's often a combined effort, but, sure, Shep's the one who takes the physical risks, and to a lesser extent Ronon and Teyla do. McKay rarely does, because that's not his area of expertise. He very often comes up with great plans to save the day, and uses his genius to save the day.

What does also seem strange to me, is that often we get two episodes in a row where Sheppard saves the day ultimately, and suddenly he's doing it all the time. If you look back over the past seasons, he doesn't do it more than McKay, though, yes the WAY he saves the day is different to McKay, because they're different characters with different skills.

However, I'm more than happy for Sheppard NOT to save the day and needed to be rescues himself as he's been rendered helpless. Bring it on....loads of times! Oh, but then perhaps some would complain he wasn't doing enough and was a liability, always needing to be rescued by others?

I was really just going off the top of my head on my list. I could redo it tomorrow and have totally different opinions of who saved the day.

But, like you, I say: bring on Sheppard failing and having to be saved by the team. That would be lots of fun.

[Linzi]

I was really just going off the top of my head on my list. I could redo it tomorrow and have totally different opinions of who saved the day.

But, like you, I say: bring on Sheppard failing and having to be saved by the team. That would be lots of fun.

Oh, I change my mind all the time about who saves the day, because it depends what you mean by that. And for off the top of your head, you did incredibly well Often minor characters contribute a lot, but not in the ultimate saving bit, so sometimes it's difficult to categorise episodes, if you know what I mean? And as I said, some might see one character's contributions as insignificant, and vice versa.

As for Shep needing saving? Yes please! I don't mind who rescues him and saves the day!

[FallenAngelII]

I believe Weir said in Rising that Sheppard had the strongst manifestation of the Ancient gene they'd come across, especially the fact that he could operate ancient tech effortlessly, which nobody else, including O'Neill could do. The whole point of Sheppard going to the Pegasus Galaxy was because of him having the strongest ancient gene, as you say. So it was inevitable he'd end up saving the day by flying things of Ancient design when others couldn't etc.. thus saving the day.

John is not the only character (though the only one in he main cast) who has the gene naturally. And then Carson came up with the gene therapy and now [B]tons[B] of people have the gene. No, John is not the only one who can effortlessly operate Ancient tech. He's just gets to show it off a lot.

Even Rodney can fly a jumper while wounded now.

Looking at the list of episodes, it looks to me as if I have a different opinion about who saves the day at times to others. Sometimes I think it's a real team effort and everyone helps. It's often a combined effort, but, sure, Shep's the one who takes the physical risks, and to a lesser extent Ronon and Teyla do. McKay rarely does, because that's not his area of expertise. He very often comes up with great plans to save the day, and uses his genius to save the day.

John gets to do the heroics... all the time, despite Ronon existing. If there's a fight to be fought, John gets to do the coolest stunts, kill the biggest baddies , etc., etc. (with a few exceptions).

Whenever he's not saving the day, he's contributing to it through heroics. Meanwhile, Teyla and Ronon almost never do this. Rodney does it to a lesser extent.

What does also seem strange to me, is that often we get two episodes in a row where Sheppard saves the day ultimately, and suddenly he's doing it all the time.

Because he's pretty much the only one to consistently get such streaks. Rodney, sometimes. But John's the one who consistently get "saving streaks" and who gets to save the day the most... and it's almost exclusively through heroics of a physical kind.

If you look back over the past seasons, he doesn't do it more than McKay, though, yes the WAY he saves the day is different to McKay, because they're different characters with different skills.

Our opinions differ here. Also, he often gets to do the biggest saves. Yes, Rodney often saves the city, but he's got Radek there helping him. John mostly kills the Big Bads himself, even when aided, the others are just there to help him get to the Big Bad.

And then there's the magnitude of the saves. John has saved "tons of people" more than Rodney, who often just saves "a few".

However, I'm more than happy for Sheppard NOT to save the day and need to be rescued himself as he's been rendered helpless. Bring it on....loads of times!

Only, that's only happened, what, twice? Even in "Search & Rescue", he, while wounded (thus breaking all kinds of military protocol) just had to shoehorn himself in and limp his way through the Cruiser to save Teyla (not that John actually did much at the end of S&R more than limping and trying to set the explosives).

[thekillman]

you know what i would like? sheppard does save the day, but actually someone's efforts overshadow it. like, sheppard saves everyone, but mckay gets them out. thats what i like. now, all we need is a "ronon saves the day" and a "teyla saves the day" and we're happy.

like, no mans land.

caldwell> hero, he commanded deadalus.
lorne> hero, he commanded orion.
michael> hero, he came up with the retrovirus plan
sheppard> hero, disabled the hive's hyperdrive, got to michael, and aided.
ronon> hero, freed mckay, aided him
mckay>didnt do too much.

everyone does effort.

seed:
keller>saves beckett
beckett> saves keller
ronon> fails to save keller
sheppard> succeeds saving keller.


that sucks. way to much foccussed on too few people.

spoils of war:

mckay: uncovers info on wraith, hive
teyla: commands hive, queen
sheppard: helps team escape
ronon: helps team escape.

thats cool. everyone his share. seed was too forced down on sheppard to save everyone.

[miniglik]

Our opinions differ here. Also, he often gets to do the biggest saves. Yes, Rodney often saves the city, but he's got Radek there helping him. John mostly kills the Big Bads himself, even when aided, the others are just there to help him get to the Big Bad.

John is aided by the soldiers under him (Ronon, Teyla, and occasionally Lorne). Rodney is aided by the scientists he works with (Zalenka). Both John and Rodney are usually the one that gets the big heroics in their specialties and they are both frequently aided by their subordinates. I don't think you can have it both ways -- one where subordinate assists count and one where they don't. Both Sheppard and McKay tend to be the heroes of the stories, IMO.

And then there's the magnitude of the saves. John has saved "tons of people" more than Rodney, who often just saves "a few".

Rodney's plan is what destroyed ALL of the replicators. All John did was shoot drones. Sure, it was a team effort -- but McKay's input was the only truly invaluable part of the team.[/quote]

Only, that's only happened, what, twice? Even in "Search & Rescue", he, while wounded (thus breaking all kinds of military protocol) just had to shoehorn himself in and limp his way through the Cruiser to save Teyla (not that John actually did much at the end of S&R more than limping and trying to set the explosives).

I keep hearing about how he was breaking all kinds of military protocol, but my husband (who was military) thought it was perfectly acceptable. Granted, the hubby is good with the suspension of disbelief, so it could just be that, but I'm curious where people are getting this.



Also, I think Ronon gets just as many physical stunts. The thing he doesn't get is the flyboy heroics. That's the problem with "Atlantis is in danger" eps. Ronon can't fly anything and isn't a scientist, so there's really nothing for him to do most of the time. Which kind of sucks. I kind of wish they'd given him ATA therapy or something. Teyla at least has the Wraith sensing thing (not that they use that very often).

[Linda06]

In a word.....yes.......Between him and McKay it's getting ridiculous......They do know there's another two members of the team,right?