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**CazzBlade** · 24 July 2008, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post

I meant more as a "I did this with my own hands"-thing instead of just providing ideas that later prove successful.

Like John storming in and solving the problem in a Rodneyesque way by defusing a bomb or figuring out a puzzle instead of just going "I have this idea!" which eventually works.

Brotherhood and fixing the chiair in Travellors are two that come to mind straight away.

Also I would call

Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post

"I have this idea!" which eventually works.

tactics ( not in every case of course but in a fair few)

**Southern Red** · 24 July 2008, 04:53 AM

I'm flashing back to the special that was aired right before S2. A fan asked the question of why Shep ran off to rescue Sumner et al. when he was the only one who could fly the jumper. JF answered the question by saying "because he's the hero for God's sake". Well duh. And so it continues.

Seriously though I wish someone else could take a turn just because I'm tired of people criticizing him. He is the hero. That's what heroes do. In The Seed

Spoiler:

Now it's interesting to discuss whether Sheppard's death wish is real or just him valuing others above himself. But I doubt the writers are that deep.

**ykickamoocow** · 24 July 2008, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

I'm flashing back to the special that was aired right before S2. A fan asked the question of why Shep ran off to rescue Sumner et al. when he was the only one who could fly the jumper. JF answered the question by saying "because he's the hero for God's sake". Well duh. And so it continues.

Seriously though I wish someone else could take a turn just because I'm tired of people criticizing him. He is the hero. That's what heroes do. In The Seed

Spoiler:

Now it's interesting to discuss whether Sheppard's death wish is real or just him valuing others above himself. But I doubt the writers are that deep.

Yes but in SG1 even though O'Neill was the hero he wasnt always the one to save everyone else in some selfless act of bravery. The other characters (Daniel, Carter and Teal'c) got their turns aswell.

**Skydiver** · 24 July 2008, 04:57 AM

it's become predictible.

ronon growls at the wraith and is the muscle
teyla calms
rodney rants
shep selflessly saves teh day and gets owied.

shake it up a little. The formula is becoming a bit too pat and tried and true.

It's becoming a cliche

**Cautious Explorer** · 24 July 2008, 05:25 AM

Speaking as a huge Sheppard fan, I love to see him race in with a last minute save. But not every time. It was exciting in The Seige when Sheppard flew off to meet the hive ship. I knew he would survive into the next season, but it was exciting to ponder how he might get out alive. But when it's done too often, it becomes dull and predictable. There's no suspense, no drama, it doesn't even seem all that heroic anymore. And I resent that. Sheppard's the hero, and I should get to have the thrill of seeing him do crazy reckless things to save the day. The thrill is gone if it happens nearly every episode in nearly the same way.

**miniglik** · 24 July 2008, 05:34 AM

I like the episodes where everyone plays a part to save the day. Or when Sheppard's just the front-man on the day saving. (Give Ronon and Teyla each a difficult piece of the problem of the week to solve, have McKay develop the solution, and Sheppard deliver it.)

But Sheppard's awful pretty, and I don't watch this show to be all that deep, so I don't mind his daring heroics. At least they've developed in-character reasons for his daredevilish ways. Although he's a billion times more interesting when he fails -- so I'd like to see more of that too.

**ykickamoocow** · 24 July 2008, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by miniglik View Post

I like the episodes where everyone plays a part to save the day. Or when Sheppard's just the front-man on the day saving. (Give Ronon and Teyla each a difficult piece of the problem of the week to solve, have McKay develop the solution, and Sheppard deliver it.)

But Sheppard's awful pretty, and I don't watch this show to be all that deep, so I don't mind his daring heroics. At least they've developed in-character reasons for his daredevilish ways. Although he's a billion times more interesting when he fails -- so I'd like to see more of that too.

Thats leads to another interesting question. Has Sheppard ever set out to do anything and failed (other than not rescuing Colonel Sumner in the 1st episode). I cant remember a single example where Sheppard set out to do something and failed to it since the first episode.

**BlueDragonn** · 24 July 2008, 05:49 AM

well , i think when u think about it, could look too much BUT....

on the other hand, he is team leader, so whenever he can save the day, he has responsability and duty as a team leader to risk his own life , i think. He is not like general or some other officer who commands from safty zone so he can order or let someone other to save the day, he is out there frontline team leader....soooo.....

like in SG-1 Season 4 e 19 Prodigy, when cadet asks how can Jack take Sams theory over hers, whenever leader has choice to risk his own or the life of others....its not realy a choice.

P.S. my first 2 cents...ever

**s09119** · 24 July 2008, 05:59 AM

SG-1: The team saved the day equally within a season, with Jack or Sam taking a slight lead. Until Mitchell showed up and HAD to save everyone everytime.

Atlantis: John saves the day 98.9% of the time, with 1% going to Rodney and .00000000000000000000000001% going to other characters.

**chensuu** · 24 July 2008, 06:05 AM

I'm sorry but this is really bugging me. I really have no problem with Sheppard saving the day, I enjoy it even, but after reading some of the posts in this thread I went back through the episode lists to try and find direct times that Sheppard raced in to save the day and I swear this was all I could find starting with season 2. And some of these don't really even fit the question!

Keep in mind this was the original question: My question is does Sheppard save the day too much compared to his teammates. Sheppard is constantly doing the self sacrifice thing in order to save his Teammates/Atlantis/Earth and it is becoming so common that its losing all its appeal.

Season 2 - The Seige, Intruder, and The Hive
Season 3 - No Man's Land, Echoes, The Ark (I have trouble counting Irresponsible)
Season 4 - Travelers, maybe Quarantine?
Season 5 - Search and Rescue, The Seed

I know I'm probably missing something because I'm writing this fast from work.

But what's the problem? The fact that Sheppard saves the day at all? Or that in the couple times a season that someone had to do the tough stuff, it was Sheppard that did it? From the tone of some of these posts a casual observer would swear that Sheppard was saving the day in 12-15 out of 20 episodes with self sacrificing heroics and I just don't see that!

Sure Sheppard contributes to the "save" on most occasions but so do the rest of the team. I agree that the placement of two eps in a row to start off season 5 was a bit strange but who knows where the Seed originally stood in the lineup.

I think I agree with katikatnik above. Fans are being too picky.

**FallenAngelII** · 24 July 2008, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by katikatnik View Post

IMHO, fans are being way too nitpicky. A thought like that - Sheppard saving the day too often - never even crossed my mind *shrugs* I just think it's natural because a) Joe Flanigan is the lead actor (not my words, Robert C. Cooper's) and b) Sheppard is the military leader of Atlantis. Also, I like him that way - fearless and heroic. I would hate to see him reduced to another "Weir" or "Col. Carter", finding solutions and letting others do it. That would be yawn-worthy.

But it's still an ensemble show. He's got the biggest male role, that doesn't mean he has to constantly do the same thing over and over again, with a few exceptions. It gets old.

Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post

Brotherhood and fixing the chiair in Travellors are two that come to mind straight away.

Also I would call tactics ( not in every case of course but in a fair few)

A few examples when compared to the gazillion scenes and episodes where he comes in guns blazing and saves the day through shooting things.

Originally posted by ykickamoocow View Post

Yes but in SG1 even though O'Neill was the hero he wasnt always the one to save everyone else in some selfless act of bravery. The other characters (Daniel, Carter and Teal'c) got their turns aswell.

Quoted for truthiness.

Originally posted by Cautious Explorer View Post

Speaking as a huge Sheppard fan, I love to see him race in with a last minute save. But not every time. It was exciting in The Seige when Sheppard flew off to meet the hive ship. I knew he would survive into the next season, but it was exciting to ponder how he might get out alive. But when it's done too often, it becomes dull and predictable. There's no suspense, no drama, it doesn't even seem all that heroic anymore. And I resent that. Sheppard's the hero, and I should get to have the thrill of seeing him do crazy reckless things to save the day. The thrill is gone if it happens nearly every episode in nearly the same way.

Exactly. We know John's not going to die or even suffer permanent damage. So when he rushes into a fight alone or is the leader, we know it'll just (most of the time) be "shooting things and getting the hell out of there".

It's become old, clichéd, repetitive, you name it. The only suspense is, really, whether or not he'll get whumped.

**CazzBlade** · 24 July 2008, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post

A few examples when compared to the gazillion scenes and episodes where he comes in guns blazing and saves the day through shooting things.

I believe you said there were no examples of him using his brain, I pointed out there were two off the top of my head, i.e. there are more but I'm at work and don't have the time to concentrate.

**FallenAngelII** · 24 July 2008, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by CazzBlade View Post

I believe you said there were no examples of him using his brain, I pointed out there were two off the top of my head, i.e. there are more but I'm at work and don't have the time to concentrate.

I believe I said "Would it hurt the writers to let him save the day through intelligence for once?". Of course, "more often" would've been better.

**miniglik** · 24 July 2008, 06:37 AM

Let's see, I tried to do a list. Problem is, I can't always remember who technically "saved the day." Some of them just run together in my head, too, because I saw them so quickly. So, if anyone can help...

Plus, some of them get tricky, Sheppard was the traditional hero all through The Defiant One, but he would be dead if not for McKay and Ford's assists at the end. Here we go:

Rising -- Sheppard
Hide and Seek -- McKay
38 Minutes -- McKay and Ford
Suspicion -- (I can't remember)
Childhood's End -- can't remember? McKay?
Poisoning the Well -- no one?
Underground -- Sheppard, kind of?
Home -- no one?
The Storm/The Eye -- Sheppard
The Defiant One -- Sheppard, but in the end McKay and Team
Hot Zone -- Sheppard and McKay?
Sanctuary -- No one
Before I Sleep -- Weir
The Brotherhood -- Team
Letters from Pegasus -- No one? Teyla and Sheppard, maybe?
The Gift -- Teyla?
The Siege Pt 1 -- Dr. Grodin, ?
The Siege Pt 2 -- the SGC, Sheppard goes off to be heroic

The Siege: Part 3 -- Sheppard, Caldwell, McKay
The Intruder -- Sheppard and McKay
Runner -- Ronon?
Duet -- Mckay, Zelenka?
Condemned -- McKay
Trinity -- Sheppard
Instinct -- Ronon
Conversion -- Ronon and Sheppard
Aurora -- Sheppard and McKay
The Lost Boys/The Hive -- Sheppard
Epiphany -- Sheppard, McKay
Critical Mass -- Ronon? (I don't remember)
Grace Under Pressure -- Sheppard, Zelenka
The Tower -- Sheppard
The Long Goodbye -- mostly Teyla, a little Sheppard, McKay
Coup D'etat -- Carson and Weir?
Michael -- ?
Inferno -- McKay
Allies -- ?

No Man's Land -- Sheppard, team?
Misbegotten -- I can't remember
Irresistible -- Sheppard
Sateda -- Ronon, team
Progeny -- McKay?
The Real World -- Weir, Sheppard
Common Ground -- Sheppard, Todd, team
McKay and Mrs. Miller -- McKay, Jeanie, Rod, Zelenka
Phantoms -- Teyla, McKay
The Return: Parts 1&2 -- Team
Echoes -- ?
Irresponsible -- Sheppard
Tao of Rodney -- McKay
The Game -- Team?
The Ark -- Sheppard
Sunday -- Carson
Submersion -- Sheppard, Teyla, ?
Vengeance -- Team?
First Strike -- McKay, Caldwell?

Season 4

Spoiler:

**miniglik** · 24 July 2008, 06:43 AM

Even if I'm off on a bunch of them, it's still not 98% Sheppard though.

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Sheppard - Does He Save The Day Too Often?

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