Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[Killdeer]

Any chance you could point me also in the direction where he said Teyla was going to have an arc or development or whatever...cause I'm quite sure he said that, unless I'm dreaming which is possible of course... I'm projecting things.

I think, unfortunately, that Joe's definition of an arc is not our definition of an arc. Or maybe character development would be a better word. I think Teyla did have an arc in S4-I'm just not so sure about the character development.

[Falcon Horus]

I think, unfortunately, that Joe's definition of an arc is not our definition of an arc. Or maybe character development would be a better word. I think Teyla did have an arc in S4-I'm just not so sure about the character development.

You're right.

Never mind, what was I thinking anyway...

[marielabbott]

Joe is tricksy and lies with the truth. Don't breathe any sighs of relief yet.

I just got a vision of Gollum when you said tricksy.

I don't think JM's definition of a number of things match most of ours--ark, character development, etc. I don't see that changing in season 5.

[Jackie]

The exact words were that the baby would not be rapid growing or conveniently written out via sci-fi means.

EDIT: Source - comments for December 15th entry (he answered a couple of questions in the comments).

Meaning it will be conveniently written out or rapidly-grown by non-sci-fi means.

i.e. It just wont be seen, it will die off natural causes, go off to live with the Athosians and turn up a teenager in s6 without any explanation etc.

I would have to go with the rapid growing via non-conventional sci-fi means.

What cliché could they rip off for this baby?

Hmm, how about:

Baby disappears for the season while teyle begs everyone to find him. They find him at the end of the season and he's now an adult due to a growth hormone that Micheal gave him--similar to what we inject pigs with.

Baby ascends

Baby is written out due to an adoption into a loving earth family, kid grows up and then we see him at the end of season 5 as a time traveling adult with a delorean.

Baby is kidnapped by Micheal. Whole season mentions baby twice the then never mentioned again.

Baby dies of complications during child birth. Then baby is cloned later on when the story arc requires him to come back...as an adult.

Baby becomes super-baby and the computer generated special effects department have even more things to model.

Super baby dies saving mom's life from blood sucking Micheal.

yeah, the kid is doomed either way.

[ToasterOnFire]

If the baby is a girl, she'll pull an Adria and grow at super speed and stop when she's developed breasts to cram into some ridiculous leather outfit. Male demographic and all.

[Falcon Horus]

If the baby is a girl, she'll pull an Adria and grow at super speed and stop when she's developed breasts to cram into some ridiculous leather outfit. Male demographic and all.

DOH!!!!

[Reiko]

Gosh, you guys post fast

Since N. John Smith admitted in the latest Stargate mag that the networks wanted them to target the 18-45 male demographic, I think our opinion no longer counts. If it ever did. Does anyone else think that is a very wide range? Do all men in that group just want boobs and bombs? And are they truly the largest group of tv viewers out there? I think this whole idea is outdated, but what do I know?

Wow, they actually admitted it? My suspicions are then confirmed. I guess everyone else is just in what one JM praiser called the "very loud minority". Sci-fi viewers are not what they were twenty years ago. I would also say this is a wide range, because there are plenty good men out there that want to see a decent character story. Big difference indeed - an 18 year old is just graduated from high school; a 45-year old could be a married man with some wee buggers.

I watched Kindred and I gotta say, the set-up for Teyla's baby is just... appalling. Just thinking about the likely directions things will go makes my skin crawl. As I said elsewhere, I wish that just once we could have a normal pregnancy and a normal baby with no connections whatsoever to any evil plots.

Arrgh. I expected the same thing ShadowMaat - I was hoping that Teyla's baby would have no sci-fi strings attached though I knew it wasn't going to happen. Of course not -why even make her pregnant if you can't have a demented mutant child? I saw this coming as soon as it was announced the pregnancy was being written in. Mikey's whole 'I have plans for him' - the line itself was too cliche.

my biggest complaint about series 5 is making keller a regular because the network wants male viewers? because she is a crap character i cant see why they keep her otherwise.

that is just insulting to men and women. dont they realise that people like REAL characters that are interesting? (like carson) obviously not! i would imagine that at least half atlantis viewers are female?

i really liked wier she was a strong female character (something lacking in most shows.)

they need to realise that sci-fi fans have brains and will stay loyal and not stop watching just because there arent enough boobs on show!

bring the family back together!

Welcome Elliecat! Carson and Elizabeth were two of my favourites in spite of not always going with the offworld team. They were still family, and that's that. I agree (of course) that Carson was a far more lovable and complex character than Keller would ever be, and that a strong female character in charge was rare on most shows. I do think SGA has more female viewers than they realise (maybe more than male) but they go by Nielsen (and by now you should know nielsen is LIES) and what Nielsen says goes...

Bring the family back indeed. (would make a lovely campaign name )

We're idealists, people who expect science fiction to be better and different and soem of us are - dare I say - hopeless romantics? We don't care about bombs and boobs, we care about the story and characters and apparently we are on "unwanted" list.

I'm a proud hopeless romantic! I agree - I'm also very much an idealist, especially when it comes to SGA. All the sudden ptb think bombs and boobs are 'in'. I love my characters and I don't want them replaced or severely altered.

A normal pregnancy means a lot of throwing up, food cravings (might've been interesting) and no fighting scenes

I would find regurgitation and midnight snacks with Rodney far more interesting and entertaining then whats been handed us.

And since we're talking complete fantasy, here, maybe it'll turn out that Ford has the answer. He's half-Wraith himself, after all, and has been experimenting in those areas. You could bring him back into the fold and maybe helping Teyla will help restore some of his sanity, enough to allow Team Atlantis to help him. Thus two lives can be saved, an old wrong can be put right and we can have a baby who isn't part of an evil plot but who still manages not to be entirely normal, since gods forbid there should be a normal baby born on a scifi show.

I like this idea, as will other people, but the people in charge think differently - mere pregnancy complications are not interesting to them. Maybe with Torri out they'll ask Rainbow back. Two lives being saved, an old wrong done right, a happy wee lad - sounds spiffy to me.

You know, I had this really weird feeling that just maybe tptb would decide to come full circle for the 100th episode - Elizabeth back in charge, Carson back as CMO, Ford's sanity returned - but those are too idealistic for them

[Southern Red]

Oh I think days of our lives had better plots than SGA now.

I've been watching Days of Our Lives since it first came on. Like SGA, the plots used to be good even for a soap. Now, not so much. They also are repeating history ad nauseum. Sorry, OT but sort of pertinent.

are you kidding me? they way they're going Sora woudl end up being Weir's half cloned sister or something silly like that. or, after the baby grows up impossibly fast (yeah, i know joe said he wouldn't but i dont' trust them to not pull something....like baby comes back from the future all grown up) he meets sora and falls in love and we have the dwama of teyla's daughter in law being the woman that hates her guts...course they dont' know about it for a while

And Michael turns out to be Sora's father. Weir is found alive again and is pregnant with Halling's baby. Halling cut his hair in grief when he lost her and has been trying to get close to Michael to find out where she is.

i wil be SHOCKED if the kid stays a kid.

my money is on, before s5 is over, the kid will be full grown in some way.

I think the kid will disappear altogether before midseason and Teyla will be back swinging her sticks and looking confused.

[Killdeer]

I think the kid will disappear altogether before midseason and Teyla will be back swinging her sticks and looking confused.

*snort**cough* Sorry - I shouldn't laugh at that. Yes, I think Kanaan will give his life to save Teyla and the baby, but the baby will end up dying from whatever Michael did to him, so by midseason Teyla will be returned to status quo.

[Skydiver]

making peace and placating rodney and saying 'john' in that way she does

[ShadowMaat]

Spoiler:

Well, I don’t want to give too much away but I will say this: Teyla’s baby will not be rapid-growing or conveniently written out via scifi means.

As has been pointed out, there are plenty of NON scifi means in which to remove the baby from the picture. I also recommend someone screencap that page and save it so that when the baby insta-grows and Joe says he was misquoted, there'll be proof. The screencap will cover the bases in case he goes back and edits it to say something else.

I would have to go with the rapid growing via non-conventional sci-fi means.

Steal Pay homage to Angel by having the baby taken to an AU/different time and then brought back to the here-and-now as an adult. He won't have grown rapidly but he'll still be an adult. I also still say that stopping at a halfway point in childhood exploits a loophole in the "no rapid-growing" promise.

Baby ascends.

Possible, but not likely in this case. That'd prevent him from becoming a Force of Supreme Evil. Or at least a physical one.

Baby is written out due to an adoption into a loving earth family...

Definitely possible. Put into an Earth home for safekeeping with Teyla denied all contact. The plan backfires when the kid grows up, finds out about his true origin and comes back seeking revenge. In season six.

Alternately the baby could be adopted by the remaining Athosians. He could still grow up hellbent on revenge.

Baby is kidnapped by Micheal. Whole season mentions baby twice the then never mentioned again.

Wait two or three seasons and then introduce a particularly dangerous new Big Bad, who just happens to be Kanaan Jr.

Baby dies of complications during child birth. Then baby is cloned later on when the story arc requires him to come back...as an adult.

A horrible possibility. Long odds, maybe, but not THAT long.

As an offshoot of this I'd also suggest that there's something "wrong" with the baby requiring him to be put into suspension, much like a certain Doctor was.

Baby becomes super-baby and the computer generated special effects department have even more things to model.

Oooo, just like Cassie in that one ep with the floating "horsies" from the chessboard.

What else is there?

* Baby is snatched by the Replicators. Hey, why not? Then you can have an adult version running around causing havoc. He didn't "rapidly grow" because the baby still exists, but we get our grownup baddie, too.

* Something happens to change the timeline so he was never even conceived. He can't be "conveniently written out" if he never existed.

* Baby is snatched by Wraith Worshipers who revere him as a god. He grows up spoiled and convinced that he IS a god and declares war on Atlantis.

* Baby is caught in a time rift- either one of those "bombs" they used on SG-1 or one of those pockets like that godawful ep Epiphany. Which is kinda like the first suggestion, really, and could be used by any of our suspects. Allows for a normal rate of growth and plenty of time for anti-Atlantis brainwashing. Or sheer resentment, if "our" side sticks him in there.

Ugh. The possibilities are endless. Endlessly horrible.

[Killdeer]

I still think the baby won't survive at all. *shrugs*

[Skydiver]

i'm going for

sent to earth for his own protection

late s5, early s6, this handsome young man shows up...its' teyla's baby from an alternate timeline that comes back to 'fix' something, thus meets his mommy and lets her know that her little boy will grow up to be a fine man

baby stays baby in this timeline but teyla still gets to interact with grown up son...and since they are in separate galaxies, the entrophic cascade failure will be minimized (if they remember that little plot point, sure didn't in the last AU story)

[Killdeer]

i'm going for

sent to earth for his own protection

late s5, early s6, this handsome young man shows up...its' teyla's baby from an alternate timeline that comes back to 'fix' something, thus meets his mommy and lets her know that her little boy will grow up to be a fine man

baby stays baby in this timeline but teyla still gets to interact with grown up son...and since they are in separate galaxies, the entrophic cascade failure will be minimized (if they remember that little plot point, sure didn't in the last AU story)

Wasn't that a Charmed plot?

Erm - not that I ever watched Charmed...really! I didn't!

[JohnRico]

The grown up baby could also make a gun that shoots out melons & he has fun with Rodney & dress up like a clown