More Wraith character development

[magneticresonance]

See - this is the stuff that I'd like to see more of - Wraith's concept of 'family' - is the hive his family, or what? Do they have loyalty to one another - honor - friendships? What is the males relationship with the Queens? How do the higher Wraith (unmasked) reproduce? Do they have a spirituality? Do they believe in Ascension?

I've always felt that a Wraith hive is like family in a sense, but probably not in the same way we consider family - there would be a strong sense of loyalty and perhaps an emotional attachment to one's hive, but it wouldn't be as individual as with humans. We have parents, siblings, children, etc. and tend to feel a different kind of attachment to each; for the Wraith I think the sense of attachment would be more generic. 'Brothers' is probably the closest word they have to our concept of family, but I took that to mean more like 'brothers in arms' - perhaps the subjective experience of family for a Wraith would be more like our concept of shipmates or teamates than family, though perhaps somewhat more intimate. But honour, loyalty, and friendships - my guess would be yes, though again it might not manifest in the same way as we experience those concepts. Todd seemed to lose his sense of humour a little after a hive loyal to him was destroyed. Perhaps he was grieving? Of course he was also getting quite peckish by that time

Socially, I imagine Wraith living in a fashion similar to the Andorians in Star Trek - hives are similar to clans and keeps; there's very little privacy, they share living space intimately, don't have much concept of personal space, etc. It would fit with their insectoid nature.

I love the idea of exploring the Wraith's conception of Ascension. Since it's a physiological process, it would presumably be at least theoretically possible for a Wraith to ascend. I'd love to see an ascended - or even better, part-ascended - Wraith! Now *that* would be a formidable enemy! What about an entire hive choosing to explore ascension as a military tactic, perhaps a hangover from the war with the Ancients? Might make for a cool arc. And it'd be *scary*

[dasNdanger]

I've always felt that a Wraith hive is like family in a sense, but probably not in the same way we consider family - there would be a strong sense of loyalty and perhaps an emotional attachment to one's hive, but it wouldn't be as individual as with humans. We have parents, siblings, children, etc. and tend to feel a different kind of attachment to each; for the Wraith I think the sense of attachment would be more generic. 'Brothers' is probably the closest word they have to our concept of family, but I took that to mean more like 'brothers in arms' - perhaps the subjective experience of family for a Wraith would be more like our concept of shipmates or teamates than family, though perhaps somewhat more intimate. But honour, loyalty, and friendships - my guess would be yes, though again it might not manifest in the same way as we experience those concepts. Todd seemed to lose his sense of humour a little after a hive loyal to him was destroyed. Perhaps he was grieving? Of course he was also getting quite peckish by that time

Excellent observations and comments. I'm in a hurry (gotta get to work)...and I've only seen The Seer, and Miller's Crossing, once (and my memory isn's so hot), but in which episode was the hive destroyed? One of those? Was in in close proximity to him at the time? The reason I ask is because - if he was in a telepathic link with the hive, the sudden death of those he's linked with could certainly cause him to feel a loss - a sense of abandonment.

I think Todd felt like that in Common Ground - abandoned. Without the hive link, he seems to have been able to think for himself, as if the hive mentality keeps everyone focused on the task at hand, without allowing too much time for individual thought. Not that they are like Borg (we know they aren't), but when everyone around you is thinking 'we must accomplish such-and-such, no matter the cost', it's easy to go along. But with Todd in prison for so many years, cut off from the 'feed or die' mentality, it may have afforded him the opportunity to see things through different eyes. In Common Ground, it was through Sheppard's eyes. In BAMSR, it was through McKay's eyes. I am still looking for ideas of what - exactly - Todd was thinking when he did his little reflective 'hmmmm' after McKay came up with his first good idea in weeks, and ran off to share it with the others. Todd seemed to be impressed with Rodney, but it's still hard to say since we only get Todd's reaction, without further explanation.

Socially, I imagine Wraith living in a fashion similar to the Andorians in Star Trek - hives are similar to clans and keeps; there's very little privacy, they share living space intimately, don't have much concept of personal space, etc. It would fit with their insectoid nature.

Exactly. And this would also tie in with the idea that - though they have the ability for individual thought - they maintain a like-mindedness, focused on their responsibilities in the hive, and - of course - culling and feeding. Extremely focused creatures.

I love the idea of exploring the Wraith's conception of Ascension. Since it's a physiological process, it would presumably be at least theoretically possible for a Wraith to ascend. I'd love to see an ascended - or even better, part-ascended - Wraith! Now *that* would be a formidable enemy! What about an entire hive choosing to explore ascension as a military tactic, perhaps a hangover from the war with the Ancients? Might make for a cool arc. And it'd be *scary*

What would have been cool to see is that - for humans - the Wraith actually helped them Ascend. In other words...giving your life force so another being could survive would be the ultimate sacrifice - the 'greatest gift' - worthy of Ascension. But I don't think that concept would work now, not with what we've seen of feeding (and no one ascending from it), and the fact that no one has come back and said, 'Whoa! Let the Wraith feed - the results are AMAZING!'

Just some thoughts. Gotta run!


das

[Col.Ads]

Things I would like tosee more of in regards to the wraith.

Ship Creation - we know about them being organic and not having sheilds and they do have alot of unique aspects to them, But how are they created? are there ship yards? and who makes them? In SG1 slave jaffa or human slaves helped in various ways, so how do the wraith go about this?

Queen's - What do we actually know about wraith queens? more insight into them be good

Culture, what are there beliefs apart from humans being there food

Children how are they raised and low long till they are adult

Also be good to see the wraith culling more worlds and more conflict between atlantis and the wraith maybe with the wraith becoming a stronger threat

[magneticresonance]

Excellent observations and comments. I'm in a hurry (gotta get to work)...and I've only seen The Seer, and Miller's Crossing, once (and my memory isn's so hot), but in which episode was the hive destroyed? One of those? Was in in close proximity to him at the time?

Thanks very much It's a very interesting topic! It was in The Seer, I believe, and the hive was in close proximity to Atlantis, and Todd, at the time. I agree that breaking a telepathic link like that would probably be pretty distressing. If so, Todd and probably Wraith in general seem to be able to control their emotions very well.

I think Todd felt like that in Common Ground - abandoned. Without the hive link, he seems to have been able to think for himself, as if the hive mentality keeps everyone focused on the task at hand, without allowing too much time for individual thought. Not that they are like Borg (we know they aren't), but when everyone around you is thinking 'we must accomplish such-and-such, no matter the cost', it's easy to go along. But with Todd in prison for so many years, cut off from the 'feed or die' mentality, it may have afforded him the opportunity to see things through different eyes. In Common Ground, it was through Sheppard's eyes. In BAMSR, it was through McKay's eyes. I am still looking for ideas of what - exactly - Todd was thinking when he did his little reflective 'hmmmm' after McKay came up with his first good idea in weeks, and ran off to share it with the others. Todd seemed to be impressed with Rodney, but it's still hard to say since we only get Todd's reaction, without further explanation.

I agree again - being cut off from the whole, so to speak, might be potentially very damaging for a Wraith. Perhaps that's why Todd comes across as a little...different from the others. Maybe he's been permanently changed by his experience, emotionally and perhaps even neurologically. As for his response to McKay (I love those little grunts and huffs and 'hmms', lol) I'd have to watch the episode again, but I'm wondering whether it was partially a realisation that humans are capable of thinking at a higher level than Wraith normally expect - like the way we sometimes react to a pet doing something unexpectedly intelligent.

What would have been cool to see is that - for humans - the Wraith actually helped them Ascend. In other words...giving your life force so another being could survive would be the ultimate sacrifice - the 'greatest gift' - worthy of Ascension. But I don't think that concept would work now, not with what we've seen of feeding (and no one ascending from it), and the fact that no one has come back and said, 'Whoa! Let the Wraith feed - the results are AMAZING!'

That would definitely have been cool, and made for an interesting possible explanation of Wraith worshippers! I can imagine various characters - including Daniel, perhaps - being appalled by the idea that people would give themselves to the Wraith in order to ascend, and seeing it as 'cheating' or something. The concept of being fed on having positive aspects would really shake up general attitudes towards the Wraith! I really hope we see more of this 'gift of life' concept, as well - does restoring lifeforce create some kind of connection, maybe even a telepathic one? SG seems to like its telepathic linking eps. Are Sheppard and Todd maybe connected at a deeper level than Sheppard realises? The giving and taking of life force among Wraith might even be used to build trust and develop or maintain close relationships, by affecting the transmission of neurochemicals - like certain intimate activities do in humans.

[ciannwn]

I can imagine various characters - including Daniel, perhaps - being appalled by the idea that people would give themselves to the Wraith in order to ascend, and seeing it as 'cheating' or something.

Daniel was only able to ascend himself with Oma's help. Then there's the ascension machine which the Lanteans built in order to accelerate the ascension process. Couldn't those two ways of getting there be considered cheating?

I still think Wraith should invent their own version of an ascension machine. Members of a species which can go into hibernation shouldn't have too much trouble getting their brains to operate at the correct frequency. Cheya might be a bit annoyed, though.

The giving and taking of life force among Wraith might even be used to build trust and develop or maintain close relationships, by affecting the transmission of neurochemicals - like certain intimate activities do in humans.

Giving the gift of life would certainly be more intimate than food sharing as in two Wraith having one human for lunch between them.

[magneticresonance]

Daniel was only able to ascend himself with Oma's help. Then there's the ascension machine which the Lanteans built in order to accelerate the ascension process. Couldn't those two ways of getting there be considered cheating?

Depending on your perspective, yes - but then again you could argue that Oma wouldn't have chosen to help Daniel if she hadn't thought him worthy, so he'd earned his right to ascend, in a sense. The ascension machine's more obvious as cheating. But there being alternative ways to cheat doesn't mean that ascension by Wraith isn't cheating

I still think Wraith should invent their own version of an ascension machine. Members of a species which can go into hibernation shouldn't have too much trouble getting their brains to operate at the correct frequency. Cheya might be a bit annoyed, though.

I'd love to see that!

Giving the gift of life would certainly be more intimate than food sharing as in two Wraith having one human for lunch between them.

Definitely - it should probably come after sharing the human. And then only if there's a deep and mutual attraction...

Fancy some gift of life tonight?

: Only if you buy me dinner first!

[dasNdanger]

Thanks very much It's a very interesting topic! It was in The Seer, I believe, and the hive was in close proximity to Atlantis, and Todd, at the time. I agree that breaking a telepathic link like that would probably be pretty distressing.

Yes, I think it would. Also - he's trying to leverage his way back in, and all of his supporters are either getting killed, or betraying him. So, twice the loss - loss of his hive, and a setback for his plans.

If so, Todd and probably Wraith in general seem to be able to control their emotions very well.

That's one thing I love about them. They put on this self-controlled, civilized air, but when they feed, they totally give way to their inner beast. The way they act when they feed is almost sensual, as if it's the greatest pleasure to be had - EVER. Just love the contrast between the poised, well-spoken 'gentleman', and the snarling beast he's reduced to when feeding.

I agree again - being cut off from the whole, so to speak, might be potentially very damaging for a Wraith. Perhaps that's why Todd comes across as a little...different from the others. Maybe he's been permanently changed by his experience, emotionally and perhaps even neurologically.

I think in Chris Heyerdahl's interview (Todd), he said something to that effect (or I read it somewhere else). Something about his experience in jail has changed his feelings about his own Wraith society. Will be interesting if the writers take this someplace POSITIVE.

As for his response to McKay (I love those little grunts and huffs and 'hmms', lol) I'd have to watch the episode again, but I'm wondering whether it was partially a realisation that humans are capable of thinking at a higher level than Wraith normally expect - like the way we sometimes react to a pet doing something unexpectedly intelligent.

That very well could be it. McKay is food to him, but it's McKay (the lowly food-animal) - not Todd (the superior preditor) - who comes up with the brilliant solution. Me thinks Todd is re-thinking the whole 'human cattle' concept. He still must feed on humans, but - perhaps - he'll be more selective now, realizing that human life does have value.

That would definitely have been cool, and made for an interesting possible explanation of Wraith worshippers! I can imagine various characters - including Daniel, perhaps - being appalled by the idea that people would give themselves to the Wraith in order to ascend, and seeing it as 'cheating' or something. The concept of being fed on having positive aspects would really shake up general attitudes towards the Wraith! I really hope we see more of this 'gift of life' concept, as well - does restoring lifeforce create some kind of connection, maybe even a telepathic one? SG seems to like its telepathic linking eps. Are Sheppard and Todd maybe connected at a deeper level than Sheppard realises? The giving and taking of life force among Wraith might even be used to build trust and develop or maintain close relationships, by affecting the transmission of neurochemicals - like certain intimate activities do in humans.

Heyerdahl said that Todd's experience was more profound - more 'right' - than Sheppard's. Sheppard only saw the events in Common Ground as another adventure, but for Todd, the events made him look at life in a different way, and at humans in a different way I suppose, too.

It would be interesting to know if - when Todd gave Shep back his life - it had an affect on how he views the Wraith. Ever since, he's tried to be more understanding of their situation, even letting the Wraith go in The Travellers episode after he restored Larrin's (sp?) life. In the past, Shep would have just shot the guy.

Thinking about how Todd reacted to feeding on Sheppard - it was almost...well...again, 'sensual'. Maybe that's the wrong word here - 'sensuous' might be better (less sexual in definition). Todd obviously enjoyed feeding on Sheppard - and when he said to Sheppard, 'You're Strong. Stronger than any human I've ever fed upon'...and the way he looks in that scene...you can see that Sheppard's strength not only tasted delicious, but it also seems to have given Todd inner strength, too. I wonder if it can happen that way...? 'You are what you eat', and all of that.

What did the Wraith in Condemned say? "The taste of their defiance is sweet"...or something like that? Do defiant humans make the Wraith more defiant when they are fed upon? Would be interesting to know how the 'taste' of human emotions affects them. It's obvious that it brings the ultimate satisfaction to Wraith when they feed...but does it give them even more? Is it what brings out their human side, and their more human emotions?

Ah...so much that could be explained!!

Daniel was only able to ascend himself with Oma's help. Then there's the ascension machine which the Lanteans built in order to accelerate the ascension process. Couldn't those two ways of getting there be considered cheating?

I still think Wraith should invent their own version of an ascension machine. Members of a species which can go into hibernation shouldn't have too much trouble getting their brains to operate at the correct frequency. Cheya might be a bit annoyed, though.

I don't know much about the whole Ascension thing because I haven't watched SG1 - but I think the Wraith could ascend, and it is probably something that should be explored in the scripts. Ha. As if they actually write stories FOR the Wraith.

Giving the gift of life would certainly be more intimate than food sharing as in two Wraith having one human for lunch between them.

I think - for the Wraith - the feeding process is itself very intimate. They are not only feeding, but tasting our emotions. It's very sensual, like I said. Sensual for the Wraith, that is. For the human...not so much.

If so, then giving back that life MUST feel equally as good - Larrin and Sheppard basically acknowledged that in The Travellers episode. Now - that raises a question...

If the Wraith taste our emotions when they feed, then do humans taste the Wraith's emotions when they receive the 'gift of life'? I think some of this might be addressed in Broken Ties next season (I think that's the title).

Great discussion! Keep it going!

das

[magneticresonance]

That's one thing I love about them. They put on this self-controlled, civilized air, but when they feed, they totally give way to their inner beast. The way they act when they feed is almost sensual, as if it's the greatest pleasure to be had - EVER. Just love the contrast between the poised, well-spoken 'gentleman', and the snarling beast he's reduced to when feeding.

It's a very effective contrast - there's definitely something of the traditional 'Dracula' style vampire about it.

I think in Chris Heyerdahl's interview (Todd), he said something to that effect (or I read it somewhere else). Something about his experience in jail has changed his feelings about his own Wraith society. Will be interesting if the writers take this someplace POSITIVE.

I hope the writers are listening to him! He seems to have a lot of insight into the character, and the Wraith in general.

It would be interesting to know if - when Todd gave Shep back his life - it had an affect on how he views the Wraith. Ever since, he's tried to be more understanding of their situation, even letting the Wraith go in The Travellers episode after he restored Larrin's (sp?) life. In the past, Shep would have just shot the guy.

I think you're right - Shep has a greater understanding of the Wraith now, and that's got to influence his perspective on them as an enemy. It'd be interesting to see a morally ambiguous situation where he should kill a Wraith, or group of them, where it's the logical military decision and the rest of the team are pressing him to do it, but he can't bring himself to do it, and has to wrestle with himself.

It's obvious that it brings the ultimate satisfaction to Wraith when they feed...but does it give them even more? Is it what brings out their human side, and their more human emotions?

That would make sense, and it's something else I'd love to see explored (are the writers reading this!? ) If the Wraith are telepathic and empathic, can influence people's thoughts and feelings, etc, then it makes sense that they could be influenced in return, deliberately or otherwise. Teyla can do it; maybe ordinary humans could learn to do it, too. Perhaps Wraith like to feed off strong and defiant humans because in general their food is terrified, which might make them less tasty and cause the emotional experience for the Wraith to be less pleasant.

If the Wraith taste our emotions when they feed, then do humans taste the Wraith's emotions when they receive the 'gift of life'? I think some of this might be addressed in Broken Ties next season (I think that's the title).

I hope it is addressed - the idea makes a lot of sense. I've been looking forward to seeing more 'gift of life' stuff.

[garhkal]

What would have been cool to see is that - for humans - the Wraith actually helped them Ascend. In other words...giving your life force so another being could survive would be the ultimate sacrifice - the 'greatest gift' - worthy of Ascension.
das

That would be a great plot hook... SGA group 1 go to a planet where some people are studying ascention and find out several have done that in the past.

I think you're right - Shep has a greater understanding of the Wraith now, and that's got to influence his perspective on them as an enemy. It'd be interesting to see a morally ambiguous situation where he should kill a Wraith, or group of them, where it's the logical military decision and the rest of the team are pressing him to do it, but he can't bring himself to do it, and has to wrestle with himself.

That would be something interesting to see.

[ciannwn]

Fancy some gift of life tonight?

: Only if you buy me dinner first!

Shouldn't that be - Only if you cull me some dinner first?

[dasNdanger]

Definitely - it should probably come after sharing the human. And then only if there's a deep and mutual attraction...

Fancy some gift of life tonight?

: Only if you buy me dinner first!

Shouldn't that be - Only if you cull me some dinner first?

Okay - thanks guys (and/or gals). NOW my thoughts about the Wraith are even MORE sordid than before...


das

[dasNdanger]

Okay - just to get this thread back on track...

Now that I have seen Kindred, I really want to see more Wraith development, and a lot more Todd.

One thing I'd love to see is for the humans to be a guest aboard Todd's hive. He's been their guest, so now - let's turn the tables. It would give us a chance to see if the Wraith - at least the higher ones - have quarters, and if they have anything like guest quarters as well. And what about those pesky bathroom facilities. Also, if the Lanteans are aboard as guests, we might find out if there are Wraith children aboard, or if the Wraith have any form of entertainment. Do they have gyms where they work out? What do their labs and medical facilities look like? It would all be quite interesting...

I mean, just imagine it - Todd proudly offering the finest quarters - with the finest beds (made of gooey membrane and umbilicals) - to the Lanteans...and there's not a bathroom to be found, and the only food Rodney has to eat are giant camel heads (or whatever that thing in The Rising was).

Todd: "You are welcome to use my quarters during your stay with us. They are the finest aboard, of course."

Shep (making an unpleasant face): "Yeah. Thanks. I think. Do you have any blankets...or sheets...or...pillows?"

Todd: "I will see what I can do. In the meantime, please, make yourselves comfortable." *takes his leave*

Shep (looking into the room): "Maybe I should have asked him where the bathroom is..."

Rodney: "Oh! Good going! We don't even know if these ships have bathrooms! Wouldn't it have been a good idea to find something like that out before we agree to this little slumber party?"

Shep: "Well, I didn't think of it...I just assumed. How many cups of coffee did you have before the trip?"

Rodney: "Four. You?"

Shep: "Three and a half. And a glass of water. With ice."

Rodney: "Okay, you win. Maybe if we eat something. It'll, you know, absorb some of the fluids, at least until we can find a bathroom, or a bucket...or something that isn't full of holes. Got anything salty?"

Shep: "Nah. Didn't bring any food with me. You?"

Rodney: ... ...

~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah - it would be sweet to see the Lantean crew entertained as REAL guests aboard a hive ship for a change.

das

[naamiaiset]

I mean, just imagine it - Todd proudly offering the finest quarters - with the finest beds (made of gooey membrane and umbilicals) - to the Lanteans...and there's not a bathroom to be found, and the only food Rodney has to eat are giant camel heads (or whatever that thing in The Rising was).

Todd: "You are welcome to use my quarters during your stay with us. They are the finest aboard, of course."

Shep (making an unpleasant face): "Yeah. Thanks. I think. Do you have any blankets...or sheets...or...pillows?"

Todd: "I will see what I can do. In the meantime, please, make yourselves comfortable." *takes his leave*

Shep (looking into the room): "Maybe I should have asked him where the bathroom is..."

Rodney: "Oh! Good going! We don't even know if these ships have bathrooms! Wouldn't it have been a good idea to find something like that out before we agree to this little slumber party?"

Shep: "Well, I didn't think of it...I just assumed. How many cups of coffee did you have before the trip?"

Rodney: "Four. You?"

Shep: "Three and a half. And a glass of water. With ice."

Rodney: "Okay, you win. Maybe if we eat something. It'll, you know, absorb some of the fluids, at least until we can find a bathroom, or a bucket...or something that isn't full of holes. Got anything salty?"

Shep: "Nah. Didn't bring any food with me. You?"

Rodney: ... ...

~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah - it would be sweet to see the Lantean crew entertained as REAL guests aboard a hive ship for a change.

das

I can just see todd's reaction when he comes back - "ugh... humans..."

[Degilwen]

Ha Ha I hope Shep and Rod find the bathroom
But I hope also that we see in season 5 good looking Wraith .... Perhaps some "old" Wraith actors come back like this Penny or James or Mr Bamford

[BlueJay]

An episode where the team is on Todds turf for an extended amount of time would be very good to see. It would allow us to see wraith interacting with each other on a more personal level. They would have to have some form of recreation, they could not always be working, though it would probably tie into daily life for them. Maybe some game like chess to teach younger wraith strategy. A training room for sparring would also be used for this, older wraith would also need to keep up their skills, develop defences against newly developed human weapons.

If team sheppard were aboard Todds hive, how would other wraith view their interaction? Would they resent Todd for bringing them onboard and treating them as equals? If an attempt to feed on one of them by a particularly resentful wraith occured what would Todds and the other wraiths reaction be?

I would love to see an episode where all the leaders of the different wraith factions held a meeting to discuss ways of dealing with some new, stronger enemy and they required the humans help and Todd had to bring in Sheppard and vouch for him in front of all of them. The various reactions the different wraith would have to both shep and todd would be interesting to see.

Since they have human worshippers wraith would have to have quarters designed especially for them. The team could stay in here. Don't think they'd get on with the worshippers though. A conversation with them could be quite enlightening. Why would they choose this? (ok, fairly obvious), what is the extent of their interaction with the wraith? How are they generally treated?

More info needed. Maybe season 5. (crosses fingers)