What a season finale should truly be.

[ciannwn]

12. McKay triggers a booby trap

*pause*

13. The building falls down on them.

#13 is a nice period after all of that trauma and drama. It's almost dark, dry British humor that invoked a loud R-rated verbal response from me.

I thought it a wonderfully ironic turn of events. Rodney dedicates 25 years of his life to finding a way of sending Sheppard back with vitally important information. His younger, alternate self then messes things up because he can't resist turning that console on.

We know they will end up changing the future in the end but the interest could lie in seeing how they do it.

[ShadowMaat]

It's hard to hold the writers over the fire for something that pretty much every TV series of all time has done, though.

Actually, I can fault the writers for anything I want to because it's my opinion. What you see as reasons I see as excuses- and not very good ones, IMO. Sorry, but I've never felt the need to say, "Awww, those poor little writers! It's not THEIR fault they can't come up with anything original! Everything has already been don before! You can't expect miracles!" IMO, if the writing is good enough it doesn't matter how "old" a plot is because they can find a way to spin it and make it their own. Too often I feel that Stargate's PTB don't bother and I certainly think it's true of TLM.

[kymeric]

The more I think about The Last Man, the more I realise how the writers think too much about themselves.

Malozzi said we'd be ripping our hair off when The Last Man ended. All he found for an ending was to collapse a building on top of a team we know will all survive? What kind of suspense is that?

Then tonight I re-watched the last episode of season 3 of Battlestar Galactica. The very last scene, the space combat scene in the nebula. And how the season ends. Now THAT's a HELL of a suspense, that you would literally kill to see the next episode. Whoever saw it knows what I mean and how incredibly intense it was, visually, musically and emotionally. A scene that makes you shiver, tremble and keeps you on the edge of your seat. And nobody's in any danger of dying. Sort of.

So, for TPTB, please learn from much better writers and learn how to end your seasons so the people will beg for the next.

TLM was a good episode, overall. The end was bad, very bad. We know they'll survive, we know they'll find Teyla alive. There is no mystery and no suspense. I keep hoping Atlantis will get better, and it simply doesn't. I stopped caring and I watch it only because Stargate has been one of my passions for 10 years.

It used to be my absolute favorite show, and now I enjoy House more than SG. That's kinda sad. Can't wait for season 4 of BSG, for real sci-fi.

/rant off

Or they are real people who can say what they want?

Oh and BSG = rehash of of original BSG and BSG1980 that doesnt even hold a candle to it. On the scale of happiness original bsg is like a couple pieces of sugary cake, and sga is like a deep dish pizza purchased in chicago. For me modern BSG rates at the same level as finding out my cat has leukemia.

[ToasterOnFire]

Why would they mention them? Seriously, why would they just go "hey, remember how...?" in the middle of some scene when it has nothing to do with the plot?

Yes, I assume if the writers actually implemented it in that horrid, forced manner that you describe then it would be bad. And while I have seen TPTB use subtlety with all the grace of a dropping anvil and write flowing dialog like a jackhammer in the manner you described, I have also seen them carefully integrate continuity between eps with minimal negative effect on the action/adventure side.

It puzzles me; Stargate has NEVER done what you're asking them to do. You're not criticising them because this is a new thing, are you?

SGA has never done a good job with its presence, portrayal, and development of female characters either. I guess you can either say "Well, women will always get the shaft on SGA" and sit back to watch the action or point out when it happens (and it is still happening) and hope for better.

[ShadowMaat]

In season six it felt like we couldn't get through an episode without SOME mention of Daniel, but I think his was the only death with any lasting effect on the surrounding characters. Or have they been mentioning Weir all along?

[Jill_Ion]

Yes, "this thing called Time" + never mentioning an event that affects a character beyond the ep it happened = Reset button. See also: Reunion, Doppelganger, Tabula Rasa, Miller's Crossing, Harmony, Outcast, and Trio.

Oh, I forgot to add: YMMV.

Toaster, do you prefer serial type shows, where one ep picks up right/soon after the previous ep and each ep is closely interconnected? I like both that style of show (24, LOST, Prison Break), and shows whose eps are more standalone (Law & Order, Numb3rs, Medium). I'm trying to understand your strong resistance/distaste/??? towards SGA not having its characters limp around all the time. (Realizing you haven't said specifically "limp around all the time," but that's my very quick way to describe what I see you calling the "reset button." Hee hee, maybe it should be called the resent button. Hee hee!)

[Demerzel]

Oh, I forgot to add: YMMV.

Toaster, do you prefer serial type shows, where one ep picks up right/soon after the previous ep and each ep is closely interconnected? I like both that style of show (24, LOST, Prison Break), and shows whose eps are more standalone (Law & Order, Numb3rs, Medium). I'm trying to understand your strong resistance/distaste/??? towards SGA not having its characters limp around all the time. (Realizing you haven't said specifically "limp around all the time," but that's my very quick way to describe what I see you calling the "reset button." Hee hee, maybe it should be called the resent button. Hee hee!)

Morning Jill! Boy am I hungover, ugh. >.<

That's why I like BSG, it's one long story. Feels like watching a 60 hours long movie. Mind you, I like the regular format as well, and I think they both have their good and bad sides. It's easier to follow a show like SG even if you didn't see all the episodes before. With 24 and such, you really got to have seen the previous episodes to fully understand what's going on.

And I agree with the reset button thing, actually. SG has never been strong on two points. One, mentionning dead characters, and two, crying after a tough event. Only exception to that is Sam, who used to cry all the time and I always thought the writers knew she was oh so pretty when crying, and that we have a soft spot for her and so the scenes will get to us. Anyways.

[Briangate78]

For me, the falling building isn't the cliffhanger. It's "Will they find Teyla and Michael in time?" The falling building was just icing on the cake, a bit of over-the-top, hyperbolic, "What else can happen?!" after all we'd been put through watching the potential demise of the Team. I mean OTT and hyperbolic in a good way.

(Taking out the nice Lorne and Looooove moments, and Shep in Danger! moments)

1. Shep gets sent 48k yrs in the future
2. Teyla dies
3. Ronon dies
4. Sam dies
5. Woolsey appears
6. Keller leaves
7. McKay leaves
8. Keller dies
9. McKay devotes his life to a potentially futile endeavor
10. Shep returns!
11. They don't find Teyla
12. McKay triggers a booby trap

*pause*

13. The building falls down on them.

#13 is a nice period after all of that trauma and drama. It's almost dark, dry British humor that invoked a loud R-rated verbal response from me.

EXACTLY! GREEN FOR YOU! The cliffhanger was Sheppard getting back assembling a rescue mission to find Teyla. Her life and the galaxy are at a crossroad. The entire fate of the galaxy is depending on this rescue mission. If it fails, Michael will complete his research, infect more people with the hoffan drug, bring the Wraith to their knees and control the Pegasus galaxy. The building collapsing is just extra whipcream on the icecream sundae!

If they truly want to add some creative writing, they will have Lorne killed in the season premiere. Why? Well who out of the Atlantis expedition seemed to have succeeded the most? It would be interesting and a twist if Sheppard and co. changing the timeline, saved Teyla and the galaxy but in return lost Major Lorne in the process. Truthfully they may not go with that angle. Lorne is a great character who just does what he is supposed to do and truly adds to the show.

[PG15]

Yes, I assume if the writers actually implemented it in that horrid, forced manner that you describe then it would be bad. And while I have seen TPTB use subtlety with all the grace of a dropping anvil and write flowing dialog like a jackhammer in the manner you described, I have also seen them carefully integrate continuity between eps with minimal negative effect on the action/adventure side.

But they were almost always important to the situation at hand, i.e. they are important to the plot. I'm just saying, there's no reason to refer back to episodes when it doesn't serve the plot, and that's basically what they've been doing since day 1. Season 4 is no different, as those episodes you mentioned weren't important to the plot later on.

[Mitchell82]

I wasn't insulting, I appologize if it sounded like I was. I just really think the ending was anti-climactic, with the bad CGI and all.

That's fine and I apologize if I sounded snappy.

As for Baltar and Six, I have to say you're right. I tried not to pay attention to them, and I found myself skipping those scenes to get back to the real story. But in a way, I think it gives the show a human side.

I tried but I just couldn't see past that.

You have to admit, sex is a big thing in today's society.It's everywhere and is an easy way to make money. I think the show is realistic (Baltar/Six not included) in the fact that the characters are human, flawed and we can relate to many of them.

I'll admit the sex part but I don't have to like that's what our society has become.

As for the awards, I said "Emmy" only, because to me it's one of the two only awards that actually matter in the long list that a sci-fi show can win.

It's not the only thing that matters since the other awards are just as important.

It's the last time I reply to you though, I always have a hard time dealing with fanboys who think their fetish series is perfect. Even I am able to give in to certain points and admit that others can be right in some way even if I kinda disagree with them.

That's your choice but I've never said SGA is perfect. It has flaws from time to time. Eps that could have been better, stories that wernt fleshed out good enough etc...

[Demerzel]

That's fine and I apologize if I sounded snappy.


I tried but I just couldn't see past that.

I'll admit the sex part but I don't have to like that's what our society has become.


It's not the only thing that matters since the other awards are just as important.


That's your choice but I've never said SGA is perfect. It has flaws from time to time. Eps that could have been better, stories that wernt fleshed out good enough etc...

I don't like what the society has become either, to be honest. I mean I associate myself with a group who is known for their questionable activities, but I pride myself on having more morals than most.

As for the awards, I made sure to say they are the only ones that matter "to me". The others might be important for other people, but not for me.

[nx01a]

If Teyla isn't rescued in time, then...hey, she'll be dead! Yay! >.>

And by the way, Shep can't be injured in that incident. He's Mr. Fantastic, remember? He'll just flatten, get up, and re-inflate to go save his team.

Teyla's the Invisible Woman. They'll NEVER find her!
Luckily, her invisible plot shield will protect her and the baby.

If they truly want to add some creative writing, they will have Lorne killed in the season premiere. Why? Well who out of the Atlantis expedition seemed to have succeeded the most?

Creative writing, IMO, is writing interesting charaters well and creating inventive situations Killing characters is pure shock value unless the long lasting effects of their deaths are fleshed out. SGA's gotten into death/resurrection scenarios of comic book proportion and I'd hate to see how Lorne would be resurrected.
I agree that the whole flipside effect with changing the past might be interesting, and Lorne has to be guilty about losing Teyla and gung ho about saving her. His death might work if he saves her and the baby, stopping Michael. If so, Lorne's the real hero of SGA: getting future Rodney to Atlantis to set up the hologram and save Shep and saving Teyla. If he goes out a hero, I might buy it. Killing him without some greater purpose would just suck. I hope he saves her and lives, but that's just me.

Maybe Zelenka will save her? He had basically no future in TLM, perhaps he'll be the one on whom everything in this reality turns re: Teyla and Michael. It'd be so left field, it might just work.

[Phenix]

I also think that with a title like The Last Man it would have been far more illustrative to end it with Shep literally seeming to be the last man. And for all that you enjoy watching everyone die over and over again, don't you think it'd have been more effective to watch them as actual events rather than as pseudo-flashbacks? Poor use of resources, IMO. I don't think they approached this from the right angle.

IMO this was just a bit of lazy writing and an example of producers not wanting to make tough decisions. I love Ronon's character and I look forward to his development but I would not have been against him dying during a similar raid BUT SGA would have had to carry that grief and story into successive episodes which it is incapable of performing competently.

Sam's death would have been pointless since she should have never been in that position. Her job is to stay safely on Atlantis while creating strategic initiatives and performing diplomatic missions. She can go off world occasionally but she is not supposed to command a combat mission.

The other scenarios were just not that interesting to me. I do not fully understand the nature of the hoffan drug. If its airborne then all SGA members should be infected but if it is through another means then none of them should be infected. It made no sense and I'm not a fan of Keller and McKay anyway.

This episode felt like SGA was saying "if we had balls, we'd actually make this happen."

O and the building....it was over the top and rather pointless.

[Jill_Ion]

IMO this was just a bit of lazy writing and an example of producers not wanting to make tough decisions. I love Ronon's character and I look forward to his development but I would not have been against him dying during a similar raid BUT SGA would have had to carry that grief and story into successive episodes which it is incapable of performing competently.

Sam's death would have been pointless since she should have never been in that position. Her job is to stay safely on Atlantis while creating strategic initiatives and performing diplomatic missions. She can go off world occasionally but she is not supposed to command a combat mission.

The other scenarios were just not that interesting to me. I do not fully understand the nature of the hoffan drug. If its airborne then all SGA members should be infected but if it is through another means then none of them should be infected. It made no sense and I'm not a fan of Keller and McKay anyway.

This episode felt like SGA was saying "if we had balls, we'd actually make this happen."

O and the building....it was over the top and rather pointless.

How was The Last Man "lazy writing?" I don't understand what you're saying.

You look forward to Ronon dying, but only if the Team is upset for several episodes? In your opinion, how should they show that? Talk about it for several minutes each ep? Look depressed for a few weeks? Cry or look teary every time we see them? Also, I don't get your use of the word "competently." Since the show doesn't do that, it's incompetent? It couldn't be just how TPTB decide to do their show?

Why shouldn't Sam command a ship? HoloRodney explained how and why she became captain of the Phoenix. She's proven herself to be quite good in dangerous battles, so why should she sit in Atlantis? (Not that Atlantis is all that safe anyway! :O )

Based upon The Kindred, the Hoffan drug was most likely transmitted through food and/or water sources. It could have mutated into an airborne disease or since Keller had a lot of contact with the victims' bodily fluids, she could have been infected that way.

SGA did make it happen, just in an alternate timeline. If they didn't do it in an alternate timeline, the entire Team would be dead. I personally don't think that'd make for an interesting S5!

I agree the building falling was over the top, but I don't see it as pointless. YMMV.

[Phenix]

How was The Last Man "lazy writing?" I don't understand what you're saying.

You look forward to Ronon dying, but only if the Team is upset for several episodes? In your opinion, how should they show that? Talk about it for several minutes each ep? Look depressed for a few weeks? Cry or look teary every time we see them? Also, I don't get your use of the word "competently." Since the show doesn't do that, it's incompetent? It couldn't be just how TPTB decide to do their show?

Why shouldn't Sam command a ship? HoloRodney explained how and why she became captain of the Phoenix. She's proven herself to be quite good in dangerous battles, so why should she sit in Atlantis? (Not that Atlantis is all that safe anyway! :O )

Based upon The Kindred, the Hoffan drug was most likely transmitted through food and/or water sources. It could have mutated into an airborne disease or since Keller had a lot of contact with the victims' bodily fluids, she could have been infected that way.

SGA did make it happen, just in an alternate timeline. If they didn't do it in an alternate timeline, the entire Team would be dead. I personally don't think that'd make for an interesting S5!

I agree the building falling was over the top, but I don't see it as pointless. YMMV.

IMO, the Stargate universe has never effectively dealt with emotional fall out. The one episode that stands out is when Janet died in SG1 but I barely remember anyone shedding a tear when Carson and Weir exited SGA. During the episode when it happened people were shocked but it was back to normal the next show. I'd expect SGA to handle death differently because the non military types play a significant role in the show.

The reason why I say that they can not successfully pull this off is the SGA world has very little carry over from one episode to the next. And if they chose to create a speculative fiction bubble then I doubt they can pull it off. Its just an opinion but they are not always the best writers.

The reason why I called the episode lazy is that the writers were saved from making tough choices about the future. I doubt that any of the main characters will die now BUT if Michael succeeds (I hope he does) then Atlantis will be in real danger again. I'm not a huge fan of babies in TV shows and it would be interesting to see Teyla and the team deal with the loss of the baby.

If by some chance Michael does succeed then I will not think that the possible futures were lazy. In fact it could be amazing since its possible for them to show scenarios from that episode. Well, really only show Ronon's scenario but I hope he'd live this time. I do not want Ronon to die at all.

And about Sam, unless she was replaced as commander she would still be the ranking officer in Pegasus. She'd be in charge of strategic planning and initiatives. In this role she would never take command of that ship. It is one of those real world meets SG world scenarios.

If someone did die I would not expect the cast to cry all day everyday. Instead the writers could show a conflict with in the group over the loss or have one member enter a deep depression b/c they blame themselves for the loss. Then you know the team could have a team building experience when they bring their comrade out of a depression. It could last one, two, or three episodes. Maybe Rodney is slowly having trouble working or Shep fails to make the proper command. Something to trigger a discussion. I write poetry not screen plays.