'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[Briangate78]

Stargate doesn't have too many emotionally touching episodes, so this was definitely a change of pace. I really enjoyed the episode though. Paul gave a great performance and as much as I wish he were coming back full time, I can't let that detract from the enjoyment of this episode. That ending scene was one of the best the show has done, and it will be interesting to find out how he's cured

The last scene just raised the bar for the show. It was really touching and powerful. I was expecting a strong emotional episode, I got even more from what I expected.

The mention of Weir just put butterflies in my stomach, and seeing Carson's reaction to the news!

[AGateFan]

Oh and didnt Carson say he felt like a dogs breakfast when he was in the hospital. Is that a common phase or was that some type of wink and nod at that independant film Hewlett made......or did I completly mis-hear that line?

[FoolishPleasure]

The last scene with Carson saying goodbye was enough to make the strongest man in the world shed a tear. It was just so powerful, imo.

And that's the difference between Carson and Keller. Carson brought tears to my eyes, but Keller is as interesting as a brick. Whichever PTB who thought Keller was better than Carson, needs to have their head on a stick.

This does get a thumbs up from me, for a change, because there was so much emotion and caring between the "old" team.

One thing did irritate me - Teyla, who finally realized her child comes FIRST over this season, wants to stay for her zombie boyfriend, putting her child right in Michael's hands. Give me a break - totally OOC.

What I would have loved to see would have been Halling and Todd both in this episode. Would have been nice to see Christopher Heyerdahl doing both in one eppy.

[Briangate78]

Sooo...how exactly does a clone get all of Carson's memories and personality? You can't get that from DNA or anything that could be drawn or scanned. *insert desperate SF handwaving*

The telomere stuff is legit. Also nice to hear about primers refusing to anneal to DNA for amplification. These guys are supposedly smart enough and have Ancient tech so they should have been able to get around it and amplify the DNA to manufacture the wraith enzyme in Carson, but whatever.

I'm rather disappointed with Teyla's "arc" - she spent most of the time dragged around or tied up or pleading with Kanaan. I was hoping she would have been more defiant and actually done something.

TPTB would be wise in the future to not stick Carson and Keller in scenes together. It shows how much of a poor substitute she's been.

The final scene with Carson was nice but felt over the top for me, like TPTB were trying to make up for how he went out in Sunday. Look, now he gets a touching farewell with just about everyone!

Good ep overall though. Might post more later.

It worked in "Farscape"! Great story arc btw. LOL "Eat Me"! The only thing about the Teyla arc that concerns me is the baby's fate. I loved how her people were saved and Kanaan was actually considering freeing Teyla. Like she was getting through to him. We just have to see how it plays out next season.

Hopefully you'll still be watching.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

Sooo...how exactly does a clone get all of Carson's memories and personality? You can't get that from DNA or anything that could be drawn or scanned. *insert desperate SF handwaving*

Jack's clone had all of his memories too. I still think it's something to do with genetic memories but at least they're being consistant about it.

[jenks]

I still don't know. It might have healed his "pouch" and regenerated his immune system but was there any alterations to his DNA in that?

I'm not sure, I'd have thought so. Without changes to his DNA the pouch would be no more than a wound, I doubt he would be able to function as a Jaffa without some changes being made...

[IMForeman]

I said immune system and regeneration. Not just the immune system. Carson's problem was in his DNA. Tretonin or a symbiote won't change that.

Same thing with a Sarcophagus (sp?) it might prolong his life, I have no idea about that. But I'm pretty sure it won't correct the problem permanently.

No, Carson's problems were his telomeres, which are a chemical protein sheath on the ends of chromosomes. As we get older, the telomeres shorten and our cells start to have problems reproducing themselves. This is called senescence. It's also called ageing. The problem is cellular, not genetic.

Dolly, the Scottish sheep that was the first confirmed clone in the real world suffered from "old genes" as well. She was cloned from a six year old sheep and was essentially born with six year old genes. Consequently, she only lived 6 years... about half the lifespan of an average sheep.

Carson's genes were taken from a man in his 30s, so he was born with 30something year old genes. The acceleration technique that Michael used must have exacerbated that. Though Carson looks the age his original was, his cells are all approaching sencesence... it's like he's really old.

And all the things that I mentioned suppress aging problems, so all of them should be able to help. Obviously the Tretonin would be a lifelong requirement, just like it is for Teal'c, but the Tok'ra symbiote should be able to give him a reasonably normal lifespan.

[Briangate78]

And that's the difference between Carson and Keller. Carson brought tears to my eyes, but Keller is as interesting as a brick. Whoever thought Keller was better than Carson, needs to have their head on a stick.

This does get a thumbs up from me, for a change, because there was so much emotion and caring between the "old" team.

One thing did irritate me - Teyla, who finally realized her child comes FIRST over this season, wants to stay for her zombie boyfriend, putting her child right in Michael's hands. Give me a break - totally OOC.

What I would have loved to see would have been Halling and Todd both in this episode. Would have been nice to see Christopher Heyerdahl doing both in one eppy.

I liked the compassion from Keller. When she said she will do everything to find a cure. I think it was well done. They truly had good chemistry. But I agree Carson needs to be in this show, he is truly the "Heart of Atlantis" and without him the show would be missing a big piece.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

No, Carson's problems were his telomeres, which are a chemical protein sheath on the ends of chromosomes. As we get older, the telomeres shorten and our cells start to have problems reproducing themselves. This is called senescence. It's also called ageing. The problem is cellular, not genetic.

Dolly, the Scottish sheep that was the first confirmed clone in the real world suffered from "old genes" as well. She was cloned from a six year old sheep and was essentially born with six year old genes. Consequently, she only lived 6 years... about half the lifespan of an average sheep.

Carson's genes were taken from a man in his 30s, so he was born with 30something year old genes. The acceleration technique that Michael used must have exacerbated that. Though Carson looks the age his original was, his cells are all approaching sencesence... it's like he's really old.

And all the things that I mentioned suppress aging problems, so all of them should be able to help. Obviously the Tretonin would be a lifelong requirement, just like it is for Teal'c, but the Tok'ra symbiote should be able to give him a reasonably normal lifespan.

Well the sarcophagus doesn't stop aging either. Maybe Tretonin or a symbiote would help with that but I don't see it happening.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I'm not sure, I'd have thought so. Without changes to his DNA the pouch would be no more than a wound, I doubt he would be able to function as a Jaffa without some changes being made...

It's probably got something to do with cauterizing the wound or something like that. I'm just speculating on all this stuff anyway so who knows.

[ToasterOnFire]

Jack's clone had all of his memories too. I still think it's something to do with genetic memories but at least they're being consistant about it.

I'm assuming the concept of "genetic memories" is something purely fictional in the Stargate universe and not something TPTB are even trying to pass off as legit science?

[GateLadyM]

I liked the compassion from Keller. When she said she will do everything to find a cure. I think it was well done. They truly had good chemistry. But I agree Carson needs to be in this show, he is truly the "Heart of Atlantis" and without him the show would be missing a big piece.

I didn't see any compassion from Keller. She was her usual monotone self, except when she is whining about something (like not being invited to parties).

[Briangate78]

I'm assuming the concept of "genetic memories" is something purely fictional in the Stargate universe and not something TPTB are even trying to pass off as legit science?

Didn't the Goa'uld pass on "Genetic memories" ?

[IMForeman]

Well the sarcophagus doesn't stop aging either. Maybe Tretonin or a symbiote would help with that but I don't see it happening.

Yeah... it does. The Goa'uld use the sarcophagi to extend their lifespans far beyond what the symbiote alone could do. That's why the Tok'ra go through hosts (average lifespan of about 200 or so) and the Goa'uld hang on to theirs for thousands. The Tok'ra hosts age, just far slower, while the Goa'uld hosts don't change much at all. Of course, the Goa'uld overuse the Sarcophagi, causing insanity and evil. But it does make them last much longer.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I'm assuming the concept of "genetic memories" is something purely fictional in the Stargate universe and not something TPTB are even trying to pass off as legit science?

lol isn't all of it?