The Conference Room-A Thread for Season 4 Peace Talks

[Madeleine]

i
The ideea is that the ones who criticise Weir (anti-weir fans how you like to call them) have done nothing wrong in my opinion...

please give a link here. Otherwise you invent a category which doesn't exist and i can't agree with that.

Sorry, but no. We have already deleted the worst of the worst, we've stepped in and said 'enough' where necessary, and that's where we draw a line under any particular dodgy post. One thing we have never EVER done is spread the muck. We are not going to allow anyone to post links to the unpleasantness. What would that achieve?

[snipped piece about how I feel 'inventing' is an unfair- ... but I snipped it for a reason, so i'll stop here ]

But indignation aside, I wonder why it matters to you so much that there be no accusaitons of bad behaviour from anti-weir fans? What difference would it make to you if an anti-weir fan was proven to have been unpleasant to people?


Or to put it another way: If I were to post that 'all the bad stuff comes from some horrid Weir fans', how would that make you feel?

And if I were to post that 'all the bad stuff comes from a few stirrers on either side', how would that make you feel?

[elbo]

To not be missunderstood. I'm really glad with the mods decision to close the "Weir discussion thread". Because as i said earlier there wasn't really a discussion, just inflame the spirits.

I only expressed concerns about how the guilt was assigned. That was just my opinion. I don't care how others may interprete it. Is just what i belive. Now please let get over this.

PS:

Pegasus_SGA, i understand the situation now and i agree with it. I was only reffering to the past events and to assignation of guilt. I know that Alipeeps suggest somethingelse. This is not really my fool.

Personaly i preffer to ban the people than the subject. But i understand the circumstances here and the mod decision is necesarely. I was merely made few comments about one of the "cause" which in mods opinion lead to this, which i don't agree with.

[Skydiver]

If folks want to criticize weir, please, feel free to do so. Just do it in the appropriate threads.

If folks want to praise her, please, feel free to do so. Just do it in the appropriate threads.

ALL we have banned in open discussion threads specifically about Weir. and the ONLY reason we have done this is because there are some folks - ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE - that cannot and will not get along with others. They will not respect others opinions, they will not respect others at all.

So we banned the discussion...because the only other option left to us would have been to start banning members. And when we start doing that, then will begin the 'Gateworld is picking on……' stuff. And we're not going there.

Over the past few months, folks have proven that they do not wish to get along. they do not wish to understand. they do not wish to peacefully co-exist...all they want to do is 'prove' the other side wrong and push them away.

[Madeleine]

I only expressed concerns about how the guilt was assigned.

The guilt has been assigned all over the place. It comes from all over the place. And you seem to want us to say it comes only from one direction.

Sorry, not gonna happen.

Perhaps you've only seen it from one direction; I'm surprised if that's so, but I suppose it's possible. Please would you do the rest of us the courtesy of believing us when we say that - whatever you yourself have been lucky enough to miss - we've seen it from all over the place. Including from a particular group that you wish to be kept free from all blame.

I understand that if you identify with a group, and people say that within that group there are troublemakers, it may hurt. Please understand that one policy we do not practice here is guilt by association. If someone here identifies themself as a ___ fan, no one here's going to think "Well the ___ fans were a part of that big old row we had, lets blame this person personally for it".

And please don't see the comment that certain people who share your views have behaved badly as an accusation against all people in that group, or against you youself, unless you've personally done something to earn it.

[FoolishPleasure]

BTW, what is the point to keep a "Weir discussion thread" in the first place? If some people are not really open to discuss anyway. Only to say a bunch of nice things about the character?

Sorry i don't see your reasoning here. How can you have a "discussion thread", if you tell people to "shut up". What do you want them to discuss? Let them discuss Weir ... you don't like that they criticise her too much? Because you like the character, and don't feel that way? Here we go, you really must find a reason for this, don't you: they try to convince the masses. Yes right, don't criticise X character more than I BELIVE is enough, because otherwise i can't understand. And if I CAN'T UNDERSTANT is definatively something wrong with you.

I have no problem with "Discussion" threads, and I enjoy talking about pros and cons of a character. I fully understand some of the criticism of Weir. Yes, she was underutilized, yes, she made bad decisions, yes, she was inconsistent, but some people got off on tangents about how she emasculated the men, blah, blah, blah, and its just common sense that comments like this will whip up a hornets nest.

{Mod Snip}

[Pegasus_SGA]

The guilt has been assigned all over the place. It comes from all over the place. And you seem to want us to say it comes only from one direction.

Sorry, not gonna happen.

Perhaps you've only seen it from one direction; I'm surprised if that's so, but I suppose it's possible. Please would you do the rest of us the courtesy of believing us when we say that - whatever you yourself have been lucky enough to miss - we've seen it from all over the place. Including from a particular group that you wish to be kept free from all blame.

I understand that if you identify with a group, and people say that within that group there are troublemakers, it may hurt. Please understand that one policy we do not practice here is guilt by association. If someone here identifies themself as a ___ fan, no one here's going to think "Well the ___ fans were a part of that big old row we had, lets blame this person personally for it".

And please don't see the comment that certain people who share your views have behaved badly as an accusation against all people in that group, or against you youself, unless you've personally done something to earn it.

Maddie, i've left your whole post so that nothing is taking out of context, which can ignite the fuelling fires. And personally, I think that snipping of posts can cause problems. Instead of someone snipping a post and only want to answer the part they disgaree with, then it wouldn't hurt if the post who snipped said, I agree with what you said above, or I understand what you meant above, but wanted clarification on this. Because posts do sometimes get taken out of context.

The bit i've bolded above reflects that Mod's won't generalize and lump everyone into one basket. But, unfortunately some fans do, and their association with a group can cause problems for them personally because a poster can't see that it is one person's view. But because they belong to a certain genre, it must mean that they ALL think like that, when they may not. If i'm replying to a post, I debate with that particular poster. I'm not debating with anyone else in their genre (unless they join in), it's them and thier post alone. And it's not me picking on that particular poster because they're from a certain group, it's simply that their's something in their post that has piqued my interest and i'd love to debate that with them. I the other poster chooses not to respond, fine, i'll forget about it (as i've a memory of a goldfish) and move on. Or if someone else wants to pick up the debate, then I don't mind that either. For the record though, I choose a post because it interests me not because I want to start a fight with someone from the supposed opposition. I love hearing different views and how people see things, but for me, no matter how much I love SGA, I can detach my personal feelings, so it will never be personal. Passionate, and long-winded possibly... Well probably, but NEVER personal

[ToasterOnFire]

It looks like there's some miscommunication going on here. Some posters are not making their points clearly or misinterpreting what other posters say. I don't know if it's a language barrier or losing the tone of the post over the internet or what, but I think we should all step back so we can continue working toward PEACE.

[Pegasus_SGA]

It looks like there's some miscommunication going on here. Some posters are not making their points clearly or misinterpreting what other posters say. I don't know if it's a language barrier or losing the tone of the post over the internet or what, but I think we should all step back so we can continue working toward PEACE.

Agreed, I think my earlier point is becoming a reality! One poster (right or wrong) being 'confronted/asked to explain themselves' (for want of a better terminology) by lots of other posters and can anyone eslse note the tensions rising allready?

And this is how things start getting out of hand. One person's view is not shared by others, so multiple posts are posted disecting statements made by the poster and before long the Mods will be stepping in again.

[Alipeeps]

I agree that this thread has gotten way off topic. In fact, it has become a microcosm for the upset and stress infecting GW as a whole. This thread is not about pro-Weir or anti-Weir or whether it is appropriate to criticise or praise the character - it is supposed to be about how we can each take responsibility for our own actions to try and promote a peaceful atmosphere on the forums. And I think this thread of late has proven that this simply isn't possible.

I admit that my posts in here today have not been as calm and objective as perhaps they should have been, or as I would like, and for that I apologise. It is frustrating to see the same crap happening here as elsewhere and to see people, whether intentionally or otherwise, misunderstanding or obfuscating the issue, and I admit I allowed my frustration to colour my wording probably more than I should have done.

Some people however seem determined to take no responsibility for their actions whatsoever and when asked to debate calmly and reasonably just side-step the issue, refuse to answer the valid points raised and just offer more sly digs and oblique provocation. And those people are never going to change and no amount of calm and reasoned debate is ever going to make them do so. So we may as well just shut down this thread and be done with it. I'm afraid I no longer have any faith that peace is even remotely possible.

[Falcon Horus]

You know the negative-vibes meter has been steadily rising in here, and it's reaching critical mass real quick. How about we all take a step back, count to ten if you have to, take a deep breath and then come back in to continue.

It's just suggestion, but it might help.

[NinaM]

You know the negative-vibes meter has been steadily rising in here, and it's reaching critical mass real quick. How about we all take a step back, count to ten if you have to, take a deep breath and then come back in to continue.

It's just suggestion, but it might help.

Trust me,,I've gotten the feeling here too now...

I think the most of us in here like different things in this fandom... I mean here are Sam fans, Weir fans, Shep fans, Teyla fans, John/Weir fans, John/Teyla fans, Rodney fans, and all other fraction there is ... and I'm sure many of us don't agree on everything some others might be liking and such,,, and why should we...just how boring would everything be... if EVERYONE was a Rodney fan for example... how would it look like if everyone thought the exact same things... I'm sure I would be bored very fast... and the same goes for everything else...

I'm sure even Weir fans see different things about her,, same goes for John, Rodney, Ronon, Teyla and everyone and everything else in SGA... I don't think even everyone in the same fraction thinks or feels the exact thing as others may... heck I've seen different views within a thread that likes the same thing.. it's just some of us might see a scene or an epi or a character a little different then even others of the same fan fraction... and there is nothing wrong with that.. and come to think of it...now I can't say how it is on other threads that I'm not on usually... but how come that within the same fraction it's easier to see a different opinion.. yes yes those fans may like the same things,,but I just wonder how it's easier to see a different view for someone from their "own" side then it is to see from someone who is from an "outside" view... just kind of odd...why there is some that can handle a different view from their own fraction but if anyone with a different view say something from outside they suddenly turn to be the enemy... odd... again not meaning everyone...just that there are some ..

And if even this thread can almost turn into a battle ground... I don't have much faith that it will die down anytime soon or ever... and I'm sad to see it like that... I've talked to fans that like different things then me... and so far we haven't gotten on a warpath with eachother... and that is a healthy way... why become an enemy to someone we even haven't met in person... and over a fiction show or characters at that... we really don't need to go to war with eachother for liking different things...
From just this thread I ended up after that talking to someone over pm and we talked and I got some cute stories of meeting the stars and such... and oh sheez...if we go by "some" people's standards well then we should have been eachother's worst enemies since we don't like the same things... did it turn out like that.. nope... no insults, no war,, just friendly chatting and trading cute stories.. but I guess it's just wishful thinking that this fandom can be like that at any point in time... sad,,very sad..

[Killdeer]

EDIT: I want to add that if this thread degenerates into another Carter/Weir argument thread, I WILL ask the moderators to close it, if they don't beat me to it. So please....just don't go there. *folds hands imploringly*

I said this in the very first post on this thread. And things went really really well for awhile. Thanks to all of you who participated. But due to what's happened here the last day or so I have just asked the mods to close this thread. I have, however, left it to their discretion. If things quiet down here and we stay ON TOPIC, which is trying to understand each other and find peace, then maybe we can keep it open. I really don't want to see this thread go away. But it is not a place to argue about Weir, or to argue about the recent mod decision.

Thanks for all your help, and for the good discussions.

[TameFarrar]

Hi Folks

I am re-posting the FIRST POST of this thread to remind everyone of the TOPIC of this thread.

It would seem things have de-railed and gone off a bit too much.

Since one of the MAIN requirements of this thread have been ignored.. I am re-posting it so the folks that would like to continue on with the discussion can and those that have been taking the thread off topic can see why their posts have disappeared, since we do delete off-topic posts.

Thank You
Tame Farrar
GateWorld Moderator

I think anyone who has spent much time in the Season 4 forum lately knows that things have gotten rather...ummmm.....tense in places. This thread is being started to have a place where people from both sides of the issues can meet and hopefully come to some understanding of each other, and maybe together we can get a lid on the fandom war going on right now.

This thread was suggested by ToasterOnFire, and I hope she won't mind me using her words to convey the purpose of this thread, because she is more eloquent than I could be.

The "us vs. them" mentality is not limited to one group of fans. I've seen pro fans making sweeping generalizations about anti fans, I've seen anti fans making sweeping generalizations about pro fans. I've seen pro and anti fans claim the "true fan" status, thus trivializing the other side. I've seen digs against "the other side" given in both pro and anti threads. I've seen pro fans upset that certain anti fans give out red for praising TPTB/s4 and I've seen anti fans upset that certain pro fans just want them to shut up and go away. And then the actions of these few are extrapolated out and applied unfairly to the whole group (XXX, who is a YYY fan, made a really nasty comment. Therefore, all YYY fans are nasty people. And then a YYY fan reads this opinion, even though they never said anything nasty, and they feel unfairly labeled and lash out in return. Lather, rinse, repeat.)

Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of it all. The fandom around here is really going to pot and I'd love to figure out how all of these different factions can come together or at least stop being so nasty to each other. Otherwise it's going to be a long, LONG wait until s4.

I'm very happy to hear that fans of all sorts would like a healthier, more productive, and more tolerant atmosphere here at GW.

We have indeed gone massively off topic on this thread (apologies to the OP ) but I would like this conversation to continue. Would anyone be willing to start an open, honest thread about this for all fans? Alas, my thesis is demanding my time RIGHT NOW. I'd love to have a place where people can post their feelings and reach reconciliations and solutions - no finger-pointing, no adding to the negativity, no generalizing or grouping fans.

Ok, first of all, this thread is NOT here for various groups to debate their positions. I don't care whether you're Pro-Carter or Anti-Carter or Pro-Season 4 or Anti-Season 4 or some mixture or varient of the above. There are multitudes of other threads to debate and discuss those positions.

What this thread IS for is promoting discussion between the groups and hopefully being able to come to an understanding of each other. What are the issues here? Why is the war going on? What can help?

#1 Rule: Do not attack or criticise another poster for seeing something differently than you. Do not attack or criticise another poster's opinion, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. This is not the place for that.

#2. Please refrain from making generalizations and accusations about fan groups, whether they are pro or anti.

Please DO talk about what bothers you and how you think things can be better, and be accepting of other people's viewpoints when they differ from yours.

Also, I would like to state that this is not the only thread addressing the issue of fandom wars. There is a thread started by Pegasus_SGA *waves* over in the Characters and Relationships forum. Here is the link, if people would prefer to go over there.

Fandom Wars: A misunderstanding or an inevitabilty?

Also, Suzotchka started another thread awhile back that I just ran across again (I'd forgotten about it honestly ):

Carter & Weir fans discussion thread to promote peace & understanding between us


One point I'd like to make before I post this. Forums like this one are a lot of fun when people can discuss and debate things, but can still be friends. I'm sure it will be no surprise to anyone that I am pretty much anti-carter and anti-ship (I'm on the fence on Season 4 - I see good and bad). However, I've found some people here on this forum on the opposite of those fences that I highly respect, and we've had a lot of interesting discussions. I don't hold their opinions against them, and as far as I can tell, they don't hold my opinions against me. My point is - don't make judgements about people based on their opinions about characters, plots, episodes, ships, etc etc. Try to see the person behind the opinion here, ok?

That's all....go forth, discuss, have fun, make friends....

EDIT: I want to add that if this thread degenerates into another Carter/Weir argument thread, I WILL ask the moderators to close it, if they don't beat me to it. So please....just don't go there. *folds hands imploringly*

[Killdeer]

My thanks to TameFarrar. Since she's the Goddess of the Hug, let's everyone give her a big hug alright?

(((hugs TameFarrar)))

I'm on my lunch break, and now I have to go back, but keep thinking peaceful thoughts guys! Or we might have to break out the campfire songs again! Pegasus_SGA? You're in charge of singing.

[FoolishPleasure]

My thanks to TameFarrar. Since she's the Goddess of the Hug, let's everyone give her a big hug alright?

*GROUP HUGS*

I brought ice cream too.

*But I'm not gonna sing Koom-by-ah*