The Conference Room-A Thread for Season 4 Peace Talks

[Falcon Horus]

Hi,

my name is Falcon Horus and I am the one who tries her very best to make people happy in any way possible. If it's humor you need, it's humor you'll get. Putting a smile on people's faces is a big hobby, and I like doing it.

I respect everyone, and I trust no one. Respect is given, even if the other doesn't respect me back. Trust, however, needs to be earned.

Peace is one of the nicest things around, and I know there will always be differences but that shouldn't stop us from achieving some sort of agreement. Is it so difficult to sometimes take a step back and look at yourself, and think "What the frell am I doing here?".

*sigh*

I don't know...

[Madeleine]

The bit i've bolded above reflects that Mod's won't generalize and lump everyone into one basket. But, unfortunately some fans do, and their association with a group can cause problems for them personally because a poster can't see that it is one person's view.

I've snipped, because I think that what you've written in the above two sentences is clear and doesn't rely on other bits of your post - hope you don't mind

You're right, of course. It wasn't one of my most well-though-out posts, and I suppose I was speaking about an idealised version of GW, which does in fact exist most of the time... but you're correct and right to point out the underbelly.

The thing is, the few who practice the art of assigning guilt by association - and we do try to stomp on that as much as possible - are fuelled by the cries of a --- fan saying "But it all comes from the ___ fans!" When the ___ fans read this they are indignant ("I never do that! and I've had it done to me by a --- fan; so that --- fan is a liar and troublemaker!" and they post at lenght about lying troublemaking --- fans.) And the --- fans buy into it and grow their own sense of martyrdom.

And I personally don't see it as relevant that a particular troublemaker comes from a particular group, unless it's to point out that each group has'em.

I just feel so much unnecessary strife has come from people, whether honestly or not, trying to claim that all the badness comes from 'the other side'. NO! The badness comes from the troublemakers, and the troublemakers camp out all over the place. And nothing can be gained by claiming that 'my camp' is clean (except perhaps to make me feel smug that my opinions on a TV show are so pure and perfect that no trollish person could possibly share them?), while so much can be lost, that I feel that if people would stop all that we'd be half way there.

Does that read better?

[Falcon Horus]

edited to give FH a hug ((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))

Thanks. I think I may need one for myself now.

[Pegasus_SGA]

{Mod Snip}

I've snipped, because I think that what you've written in the above two sentences is clear and doesn't rely on other bits of your post - hope you don't mind

You're right, of course. It wasn't one of my most well-though-out posts, and I suppose I was speaking about an idealised version of GW, which does in fact exist most of the time... but you're correct and right to point out the underbelly.

The thing is, the few who practice the art of assigning guilt by association - and we do try to stomp on that as much as possible - are fuelled by the cries of a --- fan saying "But it all comes from the ___ fans!" When the ___ fans read this they are indignant ("I never do that! and I've had it done to me by a --- fan; so that --- fan is a liar and troublemaker!") And the --- fans buy into it and grow their own sense of martyrdom.)

And I personally don't see it as relevant that a particular troublemaker comes from a particular group, unless it's to point out that each group has'em.

I just feel so much unnecessary strife has come from people, whether honestly or not, trying to claim that all the badness comes from 'the other side'. NO! The badness comes from the troublemakers, and the troublemakers camp out all over the place. And nothing can be gained by claiming that 'my camp' is clean (except perhaps to make me feel smug that my opinions on a TV show are so pure and perfect that no trollish person could possibly share them?), while so much can be lost, that I feel that if people would stop all that we'd be half way there.

Does that read better?

I actually understood you the first time round

You make some valid points

[Killdeer]

In the meantime, I have to ask why some people post in here to discuss "peace," and then go to their threads to continue their negative discussions in like-minded company. Certainly it's one's right, and it's within the forum's rules... But what's the point of saying one thing and then going back on it with one's behavior in the very next post?

I guess I don't understand what you're asking here. What kind of discussions are you referring to?

And I'm running out the door to an appointment again - I just checked in to see how things were going.

[the dancer of spaz]

I guess I don't understand what you're asking here. What kind of discussions are you referring to?

And I'm running out the door to an appointment again - I just checked in to see how things were going.

I guess it depends on what kind of peace we're talking about. Maybe I've got it backwards, but I thought that generating and promoting peace requires a bit of positivity - not just towards other fans, but towards the situation in general.

When I'm in a particularly anti mood, and I dwell in anti threads, I'm not likely to promote peace, because all of the reasons why I'm anti in the first place keep getting brought to the fore. All the things that annoy me resurface, and I'm with people who agree with me, so it's OK to be annoyed and angry or hostile. I can perpetuate the negativity because no one is allowed to stop me.

Anyway, maybe I misunderstood the point of the peace talks thread... If so, then it's not a big deal.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the ignore feature, so I'm gonna help circumvent it for the time being...

If we really do want to find peace, then I think we need to be open to clarifiying issues and explaining when there are misunderstandings. I think that's what you're trying to do Alipeeps, and if it doesn't work out, you've done all that you can.

In the meantime, I have to ask why some people post in here to discuss "peace," and then go to their threads to continue their negative discussions in like-minded company. Certainly it's one's right, and it's within the forum's rules... But what's the point of saying one thing and then going back on it with one's behavior in the very next post?

Nice thoughts, I agree how we see our behaviour may not necessarily reflect how others see us. i'd rather people are honest with me if i'm out of line, but tell me why i'm out of line without going behind my back. it's only then can I moderate my own behaviour. But then it has to be a two way street.

I know what you mean Dancer, I think, lol. Are you referring to people coming here and saying one thing, then being hypocrtical when going back to their own threads? Being two-faced is something that gets on my nerves. If you've got something to say, spit it out, I don't bite and i'd respect you (general you) a hell of a lot more.

[the dancer of spaz]

Nice thoughts, I agree how we see our behaviour may not necessarily reflect how others see us. i'd rather people are honest with me if i'm out of line, but tell me why i'm out of line without going behind my back. it's only then can I moderate my own behaviour. But then it has to be a two way street.

I know what you mean Dancer, I think, lol. Are you referring to people coming here and saying one thing, then being hypocrtical when going back to their own threads? Being two-faced is something that gets on my nerves. If you've got something to say, spit it out, I don't bite and i'd respect you (general you) a hell of a lot more.

Yeah. And I mean, there's a difference between being respectful of someone or something publicly, and then venting privately. That's human, in my opinion, and it's not necessarily two-faced if you're being honest when it comes to your respect.

However, the forum is, imo, considered "public record." So if you go on public record with an affirmation that you want to promote peace, but then you go somewhere else (also public record) and continue to vent or even spew your anger... Then I really don't see the point of participating in the peace talks in the first place. It's certainly not accomplishing anything.

I would hope that the "peace talks" theme isn't simply isolated to this thread, and that it's a mindset that we can later adopt and apply to our discussions throughout the forum.

[Skydiver]

Why not just ban for a little while & let things cool down ALL CHARACTER TALKS. For a while close down ALL SPECIFIC CHARACTER RELEATED THREADS & the like. Either lock down on these types of stuff or SEPERATE them by either locking down on them or giving the Positive & Negative their own forums & places to be. There will NEVER be peace between the two.

is it fair to punish those that are behaving?

Yes, i know that there are weir fans out there that are more than capable of posting iwth respect and understanding. So i pick out the 6 worst offenders and ban them. well, unless i pick 3 from each 'side' i'll be accused of playing favorites. But then what is the minimum post quotient of misbehaving to earn a banning?

and then, of course, is the inevitable 'yeah, well that's just a sock for so and so who's been banned' accusations, whether they are true or not. So then we ban those alledged socks, but you know, which side had the most socks? cause you know, one side just HAS to be worse than the other - and of course, the 'worst' folks will be those that are the opposite POV of the reporter.

It never ends.

Now, those that are willing to express themselves, and willing to try and learn about others, please, this is a good thread to play in. But if you're just going to complain about the vast unfairness of the world, take it elsewhere. PM me, PM another mod, PM all of us if you want.

But let's try to honor the spirit of this thread, which is folks trying to understand each other. and maybe, just maybe, if understanding can be reached, the topic of weir can again be open for discussion

[Killdeer]

I guess it depends on what kind of peace we're talking about. Maybe I've got it backwards, but I thought that generating and promoting peace requires a bit of positivity - not just towards other fans, but towards the situation in general.

When I'm in a particularly anti mood, and I dwell in anti threads, I'm not likely to promote peace, because all of the reasons why I'm anti in the first place keep getting brought to the fore. All the things that annoy me resurface, and I'm with people who agree with me, so it's OK to be annoyed and angry or hostile. I can perpetuate the negativity because no one is allowed to stop me.

Anyway, maybe I misunderstood the point of the peace talks thread... If so, then it's not a big deal.

Ummm. I see where you're coming from, but I guess I don't agree with you. And I say that respectfully. Let me give an example to illustrate. I have a friend I made on this board who is a huge John/Teyla fan. I, on the other hand, am about as anti John/Teyla as you can get. (And no, before anyone jumps on me, I'm not pro Sheppard/Weir either. I am anti Sheppard ship! Well, unless you count that weird thing I have for John/Vala. ) However, in spite of our widely differing views, we've become good friends, and have emailed back and forth and had great discussions on a variety of issues. But I'm not going to become anymore positive toward J/T ship just because of our friendship, and I'll probably still post in the anti ship threads just as much.

When I, with prompting, started this thread, it wasn't about changing anyone's mind about their position, be it pro or anti or somewhere in between. It was about helping those people get along. And I think that's possible - people just have to respect other people's viewpoints and not tromp on each other and poke at each other. You're a Carter fan, and I'm not, but you and I have always gotten along, and I have a lot of respect for the way you've discussed things with me. Uber (sorry, I don't know how to do the little thing over her name) is another Carter fan that I've had good conversations with, and that I respect. I have a few Carter fans on my friend list on my LJ. It doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinions about Carter or become more positive about her coming over, but it does mean we can discuss things and respect each other's viewpoints, and hopefully still be friends.

I don't know if that makes sense? It's not about making everybody happy about the current situation, because that's never going to happen. It's about helping fans understand each other and respect each other. Even if at the end of the day they're still on opposite sides of the fence, maybe they're not throwing stones at each other over that fence.

[the dancer of spaz]

Ummm. I see where you're coming from, but I guess I don't agree with you. And I say that respectfully. Let me give an example to illustrate. I have a friend I made on this board who is a huge John/Teyla fan. I, on the other hand, am about as anti John/Teyla as you can get. (And no, before anyone jumps on me, I'm not pro Sheppard/Weir either. I am anti Sheppard ship! Well, unless you count that weird thing I have for John/Vala. ) However, in spite of our widely differing views, we've become good friends, and have emailed back and forth and had great discussions on a variety of issues. But I'm not going to become anymore positive toward J/T ship just because of our friendship, and I'll probably still post in the anti ship threads just as much.

When I started this thread, it wasn't about changing anyone's mind about their position, be it pro or anti or somewhere in between. It was about helping those people get along. And I think that's possible - people just have to respect other people's viewpoints and not tromp on each other and poke at each other. You're a Carter fan, and I'm not, but you and I have always gotten along, and I have a lot of respect for the way you've discussed things with me. Uber (sorry, I don't know how to do the little thing over her name) is another Carter fan that I've had good conversations with, and that I respect. I have a few Carter fans on my friend list on my LJ. It doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinions about Carter or become more positive about her coming over, but it does mean we can discuss things and respect each other's viewpoints, and hopefully still be friends.

I don't know if that makes sense?

Yes, it did make a lot of sense Killdeer.

I agree that we can't change how we feel or suppress it, but sometimes I do wonder if that whole "garbage in, garbage out" theory holds some water.

Is it safe to say that this is a problem that stems between Weir fans and Teyla fans? I'm not trying to generalize or anything... I'm just wondering, what is the real root of the unrest and hostility?

[Falcon Horus]

I'm just wondering, what is the real root of the unrest and hostility?

I think, like in all fights you come at a point where you no longer remember what it all started about. I think the problems here on GW have long surpassed that moment, in such a way that nobody knows anymore what it was that caused it all.

There are so many things that could have been the cause, like the cast changes, ships that will no longer sail, other shippers cheering, lack of character development for one character, too much for an another, wallpapering of certain characters, the writing... and the list goes on.

And in the end it becomes harder and harder to see things objectively, and the circle goes round and round and round, until someone or something brings it to a complete and full stop. And until that happens, the mess will most likely continue.

Personally I'm hoping the beginning of the new season will slow the circle down a bit and maybe bring it to a stop of sorts, or at least make it turn in slow-motion, but that's only wishful thinking.

And I'm pretty sure no-one else has an idea about what I just said.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Is it safe to say that this is a problem that stems between Weir fans and Teyla fans? I'm not trying to generalize or anything... I'm just wondering, what is the real root of the unrest and hostility?

I don't know, I don't think so. Maybe some. I mean ladybozi and me are really good friends. We get along great and if you know her you know she is a Teyla fan but she understands why I sometimes dislike Teyla. I like Weir, she like Teyla yet we get along. zomg. LOL.

*hugs Ladybozi*

[the dancer of spaz]

I think, like in all fights you come at a point where you no longer remember what it all started about. I think the problems here on GW have long surpassed that moment, in such a way that nobody knows anymore what it was that caused it all.

There are so many things that could have been the cause, like the cast changes, ships that will no longer sail, other shippers cheering, lack of character development for one character, too much for an another, wallpapering of certain characters, the writing... and the list goes on.

And in the end it becomes harder and harder to see things objectively, and the circle goes round and round and round, until someone or something brings it to a complete and full stop. And until that happens, the mess will most likely continue.

Personally I'm hoping the beginning of the new season will slow the circle down a bit and maybe bring it to a stop of sorts, or at least make it turn in slow-motion, but that's only wishful thinking.

Yeah, I see that. The various ship combinations and the strong factions on all twenty sides (heh, sooo many pairings to choose from ) is something that scared me off. The Atlantis fandom was always fractured from the beginning, but at least it was somewhat peaceful...

As for bringing it to a complete stop, I do think that that's what the mods have attempted to do here. Hopefully we'll see the hostility die down around the time that S4 premieres. Really, it seems like it's just around the corner, so we don't have much longer to wait.

If not, at least this will give us an opportunity to prepare - as a group - a way to respond to the explosion of hostility that may or may not erupt once S4 premieres.

ETA: LOL Ruined_puzzle. ZOMG, you get along?!?!?!

[ToasterOnFire]

(I think we should be careful to clarify behaviour over views here - you can have an extreme view and be perfectly polite about expressing it, the problems we have in the forums are those who express their views in extreme ways)

Yes!

When I, with prompting, started this thread, it wasn't about changing anyone's mind about their position, be it pro or anti or somewhere in between.

Yes!

The purpose of this thread has never been to try and change fan opinions, or even really talk about fan opinions at all. Nor is the purpose to try and shut down a particular opinion, whether it be pro or anti, mild or extreme.

The purpose was to get fans to talk about the current problems within fandom and possible solutions to make this forum a better place. The purpose was to get fans to think about how they post (such as: Am I making my views clear? Am I avoiding making blanket statements about fans? Am I on topic?) and how they react to posts (such as: Am I misinterpreting what they said? Am I making assumptions about a poster because they're an XX fan? Should I just walk away instead of going off at a pot-stirring post?). The purpose was to have a fan pop in and say "I'm really upset because of blanket statements/off topic posts/sneaky malicious comments at other fans/etc." and then maybe some people reading the thread would think "Hey, I didn't even realize that was happening! I'll make more of an effort to be conscious about that in the future." And then the forum would get that tiny bit better because posters are conscious about what is making other posters upset and most people are making an effort to avoid that problem or talk about it openly or fix it.

I'm not expecting the forum to magically change into Pleasantville overnight. But I would like to get out of the "one step forward, two steps back" scenario.