Atlantis' leadership in s4 - Spoilers and speculation

[Chailyn]

My trepidation is about TPTB. I sincerely hope that they have realised that their previous idea of
SG-1 fans + Farscape fans = more fans!
failed - they actually lost 30%(approx.) of the audience

Yeah, I'm seeing that game plan being used again and it's making me more than a little nervous. They try to play the niche markets and end up missing the giant one right in front of their faces. Just write good stories with developed characters! That's it. We're not demanding much. Do that and the ratings will improve. Take the fuzzy math out of it.

Hopefully they have learned to respect a show's history and complement and improve on the heart and soul of the show. They need to fix their existing problems and weave their new changes in with skill and finesse. Not rip it to shreds and wonder why things didn't work out. I'm hoping for the best but I am fearing the worst.

I would like Dr Elizabeth Weir to continue to lead the Atlantis expedition.

I hope you're right. I really could handle these changes, but I just don't have much faith in tptb. I may even grow to like Sam on Atlantis, who knows? I do think that if they give her a meaty role she's going to need some character adjustment. The tones of the two shows are so different. The Atlantis gang hardly ever saves the day, and when they do it's not always a "heroic" gesture. These are flawed people. I have trouble picturing Sam this dark. If they can weave her into the show and get rid of some of that 'perfectness', then it might just work. We'll see.

[flynn1959]

You quoted someone who said they thought that Daniel was a better choice to take command. I thought you were agreeing with them.

My bad.

No problem, I was agreeing with her statement that if anyone should move to Atlantis from SG1 it should be Daniel. I still don't think he should be in charge though I loike him as part of a team.

[flynn1959]

I guess you still don't get the concept of having factual numbers of the whole viewership (which is not possible) on where they stand on this issue.

Yes, there are many people who don't like Carter, just like there are many people who are in favour of the move and there are many that are cautiously sitting on the fence waiting to see what happens before offering an opinion. But nowhere are you going to get the factual numbers to prove that any of those stances is the "overwhelming" opinion.

Okay on one forum today, I can't name it for obvious reasons lets call it the other side, there are fourteen seperate members posting that they will no longer watch Atlantis when Carter joins the show. There are three people posting repeatedly that they will. That's almost five times more people responding in the negative than the positive. On my LJ there are over thirty posting against and seven for, three are waiting to see just how Carter is introduced before giving up on the show. So even if those three decide to stay with the show they are still out-numbered three to one. In my own family there are three people who watch Atlantis two in my house and one away at Uni, none of us will watch an episode with Carter in.

On this very forum there is a huge amount of animosity towards Carter joining Atlantis even from her own fans. The poll in this thread shows that over 75% of people want Weir to continue in command. If Carter doesn't join the show I am sure Wier would be in all of season four.

I know that you are a Carter fan and as such are more than happy that she is joining Atlantis but don't be fooled into thinking that it is a popular move, it isn't. I am happy for the actress, it is hard to get work once you pass forty so good luck to her I am sure she will stick with Atlantis for as long as they will have her. I just don't think the character belongs on the show.

Only time will tell who is right or wrong, it is a gamble and that's for sure. I would hate to see Atlantis cancelled, I have only recently got into the show and I would love to say that I would continue to support it next season. I just can't watch anymore Carter.

[RealmOfX]

Okay on one forum today, I can't name it for obvious reasons lets call it the other side, there are fourteen seperate members posting that they will no longer watch Atlantis when Carter joins the show. There are three people posting repeatedly that they will. That's almost five times more people responding in the negative than the positive. On my LJ there are over thirty posting against and seven for, three are waiting to see just how Carter is introduced before giving up on the show. So even if those three decide to stay with the show they are still out-numbered three to one. In my own family there are three people who watch Atlantis two in my house and one away at Uni, none of us will watch an episode with Carter in.

On this very forum there is a huge amount of animosity towards Carter joining Atlantis even from her own fans. The poll in this thread shows that over 75% of people want Weir to continue in command. If Carter doesn't join the show I am sure Wier would be in all of season four.

I know that you are a Carter fan and as such are more than happy that she is joining Atlantis but don't be fooled into thinking that it is a popular move, it isn't. I am happy for the actress, it is hard to get work once you pass forty so good luck to her I am sure she will stick with Atlantis for as long as they will have her. I just don't think the character belongs on the show.

Only time will tell who is right or wrong, it is a gamble and that's for sure. I would hate to see Atlantis cancelled, I have only recently got into the show and I would love to say that I would continue to support it next season. I just can't watch anymore Carter.

You're still not getting the concept are you - you're looking at a very small and biased selection of online people. Trying to state that any group has the "overwhelming" numbers is impossible when using invalid sampling methods.

"I know that you are a Carter fan and as such are more than happy that she is joining Atlantis" - well if you think that, then you sure haven't been reading my posts have you and shows how little grasp of the situation you really have. Not once have I said it is a popular move so why would you believe I would be fooled into thinking that? Oh yeah, you're making it up as you go along. For the record I'm a Carter fan, a Weir fan, a Jack fan, a Shep fan, a Daniel fan, a Teyla, fan, a Teal'c fan, a Rodney, fan, a Ronon fan .............
get the picture??

Oooh colourful words but you're not going going to get me to believe that Sam fans have any huge amount of animosity towards her going to Atlantis. You'll see some saying that they're not happy for various reason and some don't want it to happen and others will wait and see while some are quite happy with the move, some will even start watching Atlantis.

"I am happy for the actress, it is hard to get work once you pass forty so good luck to her I am sure she will stick with Atlantis for as long as they will have her." Why am I not surprised to see veiled catty remarks being thrown at the actress??

You seem to quite easily ignore that a lot of people support both Weir and Carter and I know that there are a lot of Carter supporters keeping quiet because they understand what a large number of changes can to do a series and how much it can upset fans and are giving said fans some space.

Quite a lot of people seem to be making it out that it's Sam's fault that Weir is being made recurring - I think it's time to grow up and realise that the characters aren't doing ANYTHING it's TPTB. Direct your ire to the people responsible.

Here's the condensed version of my position on the subject :
Dr Elizabeth Weir should remain leader of the Atlantis expedition
I really dislike what they've done with Carson and reducing Weir to recurring.
I'm not opposed to the concept of the cast additions.
The success of S4 depends on TPTB fixing the current problems with the series and how well they manage the cast changes. This is what I'm worried about as I have little faith in TPTB due to their recent track record.
I'm waiting to see exactly what the changes are to the show and how they are implemented before I make my mind up on the subject.

[flynn1959]

Fabulous post! I wanted to give you green, but I've given too much in the past 24 hours!

I have to say, what people don't realise is that Suz, who started the Save Elizabeth Weir thread is the world's biggest Sam Carter fan. I mean, really big. She was one of only two people who bought Sam Carter t-shirts at the NJ con. (actually, I think the second went in the auction).

She's a massive fan, but she's against Carter joining the Atlantis cast. For me, knowing how much she loves Sam and the fact that she doesn't want her on Atlantis says it all.

Thank you.

That does just about say it all doesn't it. As I said, only time will tell if Carter is the salvation or ruination of Atlantis. Not that I believe it needs saving now!

[sailfindragon]

You're still not getting the concept are you - you're looking at a very small and biased selection of online people. Trying to state that any group has the "overwhelming" numbers is impossible when using invalid sampling methods.

"I know that you are a Carter fan and as such are more than happy that she is joining Atlantis" - well if you think that, then you sure haven't been reading my posts have you and shows how little grasp of the situation you really have. Not once have I said it is a popular move so why would you believe I would be fooled into thinking that? Oh yeah, you're making it up as you go along. For the record I'm a Carter fan, a Weir fan, a Jack fan, a Shep fan, a Daniel fan, a Teyla, fan, a Teal'c fan, a Rodney, fan, a Ronon fan .............
get the picture??

Oooh colourful words but you're not going going to get me to believe that Sam fans have any huge amount of animosity towards her going to Atlantis. You'll see some saying that they're not happy for various reason and some don't want it to happen and others will wait and see while some are quite happy with the move, some will even start watching Atlantis.

"I am happy for the actress, it is hard to get work once you pass forty so good luck to her I am sure she will stick with Atlantis for as long as they will have her." Why am I not surprised to see veiled catty remarks being thrown at the actress??

You seem to quite easily ignore that a lot of people support both Weir and Carter and I know that there are a lot of Carter supporters keeping quiet because they understand what a large number of changes can to do a series and how much it can upset fans and are giving said fans some space.

Quite a lot of people seem to be making it out that it's Sam's fault that Weir is being made recurring - I think it's time to grow up and realise that the characters aren't doing ANYTHING it's TPTB. Direct your ire to the people responsible.

Here's the condensed version of my position on the subject :
Dr Elizabeth Weir should remain leader of the Atlantis expedition
I really dislike what they've done with Carson and reducing Weir to recurring.
I'm not opposed to the concept of the cast additions.
The success of S4 depends on TPTB fixing the current problems with the series and how well they manage the cast changes. This is what I'm worried about as I have little faith in TPTB due to their recent track record.
I'm waiting to see exactly what the changes are to the show and how they are implemented before I make my mind up on the subject.

I completely agree with you. I have been a Stargate SG1 fan and Atlantis fan since the very beginning. I am not particulary happy about the changes of late to both shows, but I take the wait and see approach. I remember being really annoyed when Micheal Shanks left and they brought in Corin Nemic, however i really enjoyed season 6 and the return of Daniel Jackson in Season 7. I also felt the same way at the beginning of Season 9 when Ben Browder and Claudia Black was brought in. However again i was surprised and have really enjoyed Beau Bridges contribution to the show. I was not particularly happy about SG1 being cancelled, but to be honest 10 years is a long time and didn't really come as any great surprise. I am glad they are not doing a Season 11 and are instead working on Direct to DVD movies.
However as far as Atlantis is concerned, at lot of people all seem to jumping to the conclusion that Dr. Weir character has been outed because of Sam Carter. I have not heard anything to support that. Either Torri Higginson has been reduced to recurring because of TPTB or that she asked for off time. At least with Carson Beckett we knew that it was not his choice to leave, the decision was made and the internet has been rifte with comments about his departure. It was also the same when RSF was reduce, we knew that is wasn't his choice either. But no where have i seen any comments from Torri Higginson on this subject, so i can't assume anything.
As far as Sam Carter is concerned, i am not a huge fan of her character, due to the way she has been written, however i am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that i will stop watching my favourite show just because she is in it. I don't necessarily think that it will be a bad thing nor a good thing, it just depends on which capacity they write her into the cast. Once Season 4 starts filming i am sure that we will all find out what her role will be. But regardless of how i feel about the cast changes i will still tune in see how it all plays out. I can only hope that they find a good enough writer that can actually write for the female cast members as they haven't really done an outstanding job with them so far. IMO i think this is why i have not taken with Dr. Weir, which is a shame as the character had so much potential to be so much more and i think Torri did the best with what she was given.
The only thing i really think they made a huge mistake with is writting out Carson Beckett, i really loved the character and can only hope that he will be back in some shape or form in Season 4.

[Flowerbud]

I think if Torri Higginson wanted to leave for her own reasons the producers would have let the audience know. One of the Gateworld posters reads TH's blog and it sounds as if TH did not want her role reduced.

I'm not familiar with the SG-1 fanbase, but it seems as if there is a block of fans who for whatever reason really dislike the character. If this is true, then transferring Sam to SGA is a monumentally stupid move. Besides alienating some of the SGA fans when they discover the "soft" reset of the show who will likely stop watching the show, SGA won't be able to pull in the large SG-1 fanbase. I suspect that Elizabeth will only be in the first 4-6 episodes in a very small capacity and then will disappear when Sam comes to Atlantis. Once Elizabeth is gone, who but Sam will be the expedition leader. Amanda is a huge star and I think Sam has seniority over Sheppard.

[chocdoc]

I think if Torri Higginson wanted to leave for her own reasons the producers would have let the audience know. One of the Gateworld posters reads TH's blog and it sounds as if TH did not want her role reduced.

I'm not familiar with the SG-1 fanbase, but it seems as if there is a block of fans who for whatever reason really dislike the character. If this is true, then transferring Sam to SGA is a monumentally stupid move. Besides alienating some of the SGA fans when they discover the "soft" reset of the show who will likely stop watching the show, SGA won't be able to pull in the large SG-1 fanbase. I suspect that Elizabeth will only be in the first 4-6 episodes in a very small capacity and then will disappear when Sam comes to Atlantis. Once Elizabeth is gone, who but Sam will be the expedition leader. Amanda is a huge star and I think Sam has seniority over Sheppard.

There is a block of fans who dislike each SG-1 character, except for maybe Teal'c. And each character has a substantial fanbase, except maybe Teal'c. The larger problem is having any SG-1 character on SGA for this many episodes for some SGA fans.

Most important to me is what the causal viewer will think about the new changes. Changes in SG-1 over the last year and a half were not liked by a large portion of the viewing audience, as evidenced by the fall in the ratings.

Time will only tell if these changes on SGA will work or not for the larger viewing audience.

[Avenger]

SciFi's complete lack of marketing the show sure had a lot to do with it. I'm seeing BSG and Dresden Files commercials on NBC all the time these days. Funny thing is that when they actually put some effort into marketing the 200th episode of SG-1, there was a 25% boost in the ratings. Begs the question: What if SciFi had marketed the show leading up to season 9 and for season 10? Then there was SciFi breaking up the Friday night block, which killed BSG's ratings too. It was more than just character changes.

[Mitchell82]

SciFi's complete lack of marketing the show sure had a lot to do with it. I'm seeing BSG and Dresden Files commercials on NBC all the time these days. Funny thing is that when they actually put some effort into marketing the 200th episode of SG-1, there was a 25% boost in the ratings. Begs the question: What if SciFi had marketed the show leading up to season 9 and for season 10? Then there was SciFi breaking up the Friday night block, which killed BSG's ratings too. It was more than just character changes.

Indeed. Scifi really dropped the ball. Even BSG is in danger mode now.

[the old briar pipe]

Indeed. Scifi really dropped the ball. Even BSG is in danger mode now.

Because, let's face it: if the engine works, you should break it up and scatter it on the ground, then wait for someone to notice its potential and pay you to put it back together.

Actually, that's a metaphor for Atlantis, too, but whatever. My hope is that strong, consistant leadership with a vague sense of moral obligation will rear its head once more in season 4, since we haven't seen that since season 1. Though I'd vastly prefer Weir to be the one dishing it out, I'd take it from Caldwell at this point (not that I think "kill the whales" qualifies, but they've completely altered characters before).

So if the question is, "leadership in season 4?" my answer is, "yes, please!"

[atlantis_babe34]

Ha! This thread is like a

Sg1 fans vs Atlantis fans.. and i have to say i am more of an atlantis fan so im going to say the Elizabeth Should stay in command

[sailfindragon]

Ha! This thread is like a

Sg1 fans vs Atlantis fans.. and i have to say i am more of an atlantis fan so im going to say the Elizabeth Should stay in command

I have been a SG1 fan for the last 10 years and also watched the original movie when it came out. However i have also been a big fan of Atlantis right from the beginning.
They both are very different shows in many respects, but i love equally as much.
Althought I have said this before i haven't quite been able to take to Dr Weir, however i do believe that it would be better if she stayed in command. (I really enjoyed her in Submersion, as she actually did more than stand in the control room) I think for the sake of the fans, Sam Carter should not be the new leader and i hope they can write her into the cast in such away that it does not take anything away from the current cast. I am looking forward to seeing how they do it and hope they do it well.

[Vicky]

Ha! This thread is like a

Sg1 fans vs Atlantis fans.. and i have to say i am more of an atlantis fan so im going to say the Elizabeth Should stay in command

It is not a SG1 fans vs Atlantis fans thread. I'm a huge Sam fan, but I just don't want her to come in Atlantis if it's going to reduce Elizabeth's presence, and it will be.

Many of us are fan of both shows, and we just don't want people to mess with our show. Now, if they could have done that without Weir's going to recurring, I would have been happy. What I'd like is some Elizabeth/Sam interaction but that won't happen with what they said.

Elizabeth is the one and only leader of Atlantis. That is all.

[sailfindragon]

Can you believe that my 8 year old son is a big fan of atlantis and he was just gutted when they killed off Carson Beckett. I hate to think what he will be like when Weir isn't in as much.
All my children have been brought up with stargate and watch it whenever it is on. However my 8 year old is the biggest fan and during the christmas holidays he sat and watched Atlantis again right from Season 1.
My hubby is more a Atlantis Fan than SG1, he is in Kazakhstan working just now, so he doesn't know that Carson has been killed off yet.