Atlantis' leadership in s4 - Spoilers and speculation

[chocdoc]

Why is it pathetic? I can't stand Carter on SG1, so unless they radically re-write the character for Atlantis I will still not be able to stand the character. Why should I watch a show that has a character I hate in it and has thrown away two characters I love? Yes I know Weir is going recurring and will still be in the show just like Ford oh wait...when did we last see Ford.

I don't see why I should waste my time watching a show that has a character like Carter in it. She sucks the life out of every scene she is in.

I guess you won't be watching then.

[RealmOfX]

I don't suppose that you have numbers for your supposed overwhelming negative fan response to Sam Carter? Do you? No, I didn't think so.

Take a look around the net at this and other forums and read all the negative posts, check out the polls, read a few LJ entries, talk to people. Even some die hard Sam fans are saying it is a bad idea, some ship fans hate the idea that with Carter in another Galaxy they can't maintain thier little fantasy of Carter and Sir shacking up at weekends.

A lot of people are very, very unhappy about Carter being thrust on Atlantis. That is a fact.

Yep just like I thought - no solid evidence.

[talyn2k1]

In the corner sulking because the national treasure has just proved him wrong again and made him look foolish in front of the others. You only have to look at the SG1 episodes with the pair of them, Rodney always ends up looking bad.

I have to agree with you on that one.
I like Carter and I like McKay and I like their interactions together EVERY NOW AND THEN however, Rodney does quite often come out looking like the bad / wrong guy which I don't mind if it is every now and then, he gets to be the smart ass for the rest of the season

But if Carter is in the show in a scientific capacity I can see PTB making her right all the time and making Rodney look like a jerk which we have learned over the last 3 years is not entirely the case.

I like both characters but I like McKay more and I hope this change does not have negative effects for the character.

Back to the point of this thread...despite what I have just said, if I were forced to choose between Carter and Weir, I would choose Carter.
Simple reason is that I don't like the Weir character.

I would prefer Daniel in the role of Atlantis commander as, as is the belief of alot of Atlantis fans, he is the only SG character who really fits in on Atlantis. And he would bring back some of that boyish excitement that we lost with Ford if he were to be let loose in the city of the Ancients - a place he sacrified so much to find.

[flynn1959]

I guess you won't be watching then.

Not fourteen episodes anyway.

[flynn1959]

Yep just like I thought - no solid evidence.

Oh it's rock solid and if I had the time and it wasn't against the rules I could link to every single post every single thread on every forum, LJ etc.For many, mnay, MANY people Carter is not wanted or needed on Atlantis.

[flynn1959]

I would prefer Daniel in the role of Atlantis commander as, as is the belief of alot of Atlantis fans, he is the only SG character who really fits in on Atlantis. And he would bring back some of that boyish excitement that we lost with Ford if he were to be let loose in the city of the Ancients - a place he sacrified so much to find.

I have to agree with you if Atlantis must have a SG1 character it should have been Daniel. I would watch to see him running around exploring the city that as you say he sacrificed so much to find.

[Uber]

Take a look around the net at this and other forums and read all the negative posts, check out the polls, read a few LJ entries, talk to people. Even some die hard Sam fans are saying it is a bad idea, some ship fans hate the idea that with Carter in another Galaxy they can't maintain thier little fantasy of Carter and Sir shacking up at weekends.

A lot of people are very, very unhappy about Carter being thrust on Atlantis. That is a fact.

So in other words...because some fans are upset about the changes...this means what exactly?

I know it's a stretch for some but let's try to think about this situation rationally for a moment, shall we?

Stargate Atlantis as it is right now was on its way to cancellation. This is not my opinion...it is fact. Its numbers are not sustainable. Brad Wright admitted it simply did not have the legs that SG-1 did. Ergo...if SGA was to continue on, massive changes would have to take place. Yes, there exists a core group of die hards that love it as is, want it to remain its own entity and want there to be no changes whatsoever. I'm sorry...but that is completely unrealistic.

And they NEED SGA to continue. They have to know that were SGA to fail and not be renewed for a 5th season the future of the franchise would be in jeopardy. What kind of chance would they have for a third series? What kind of hope would they have to make more SG-1, SGA or crossover movies? They NEED SGA to work.

I've read some say that they don't want any SG-1 anything touching their show...but again, I find that to be completely unrealistic. First of all, it's the same universe. It's only logical that there would be stories and themes that cross boundaries. Secondly, with SG-1 no longer on the air, TPTB need a way to draw SG-1 viewers who normally wouldn't care about SGA. Thirdly, according to Joe Mallozzi it seems to have been part of their plans from the beginning...to start SGA off as its own entity by itself for a year so it could establish itself, but then mesh them together to tell a more comprehensive story and make use of SG-1 assets and themes on SGA.

They need to...as Brad put it...shore up their fanbase. And as much as some SGA purists detest the notion, that means pulling in SG-1 fans as well and hopefully new fans as time goes on.

A logical choice is to bring in popular SG-1 characters to do guest spots or in Carter's case, to give her a more substantial role. What will she be doing? I have no idea. I do know though that having her there will open up a whole new world of possibilities for the show and the team and heck, for Carter too. That all by itself makes me more excited about the prospects. As for the "evidence" you've used about all those opposed, I have an equal amount of "evidence" of Carter fans who are excited and are now going to give SGA a shot whereas they would have never been interested before. Anecdotal stories are nice...but with regard to online fandom, they prove nothing in the long run.

I'm sorry for Torri and Paul fans. I truly am. I'm a bigtime Carson fan so the notion of him not being there saddens me. As for Weir? There have been moments where I've warmed to her now and then too. It's sad and tough...but it's also a done deal. The harsh reality is, they are doing this regardless of what some online fans say about it.

So...I am trying to look at this positively. What will Carter add to the chemistry? What will her role be? What storylines can they do that they hadn't done before? And what about Jewel...and Michael Beach? What will they bring to the dynamic that was missing before?

There are a lot of changes being made for Season 4, all in an effort to make the show more viable...to give it the "legs" that Brad Wright admits the show is lacking. Change is scary, but in this case is also necessary. Yes it will be different...but that doesn't mean worse. Of course that's all in one's perspective, isn't it?

I'll give it a shot because I'm excited about the possibilities. If you choose not to, then that's fine...that's your right. But regardless of what you or I say or think, these changes will be made and the show will move in a new direction.

I'll see where it takes us before making my decision as to whether or not I think the changes were what the show needed.

[Uber]

I have to agree with you if Atlantis must have a SG1 character it should have been Daniel. I would watch to see him running around exploring the city that as you say he sacrificed so much to find.

Why should it have been Daniel? That would be replacing one civilian with another civilian. That would have been a smack in the face for her, donchathink?

So it looks as though in principle you're okay with Weir being replaced as leader if it has to be done...just as long as it's not Carter doing the replacing.

[flynn1959]

Why should it have been Daniel? That would be replacing one civilian with another civilian. That would have been a smack in the face for her, donchathink?

So it looks as though in principle you're okay with Weir being replaced as leader if it has to be done...just as long as it's not Carter doing the replacing.

I didn't say that Daniel should replace Weir I dn't think she needs to be replaced by anyone. What I said was if any character from SG1 has to be on Atlantis it should be Daniel.

[Uber]

I didn't say that Daniel should replace Weir I dn't think she needs to be replaced by anyone. What I said was if any character from SG1 has to be on Atlantis it should be Daniel.

You quoted someone who said they thought that Daniel was a better choice to take command. I thought you were agreeing with them.

My bad.

[Night Spring]

Stargate Atlantis as it is right now was on its way to cancellation. This is not my opinion...it is fact. Its numbers are not sustainable. Brad Wright admitted it simply did not have the legs that SG-1 did.

I looked around to see if I could find where Brad Wright said this. The nearest I could find was this GateWorld interview, where Brad says:

Atlantis -- it might not be successful as SG-1. It's incredibly unlikely that it would be as successful as SG-1. But we're into our third season, and that is successful as a television show by any standard.

He says Atlantis is a *succcessful* TV show. That doesn't sound to me like he's saying Atlantis doesn't have a leg to stand on, just that he doesn't think it can equal SG-1's success -- which in truth, few shows can.

I, for one, don't think Atlantis needs such large scale changes as have been announced. Of course, that's only my opinion. But I also think that the opinion that Atlantis needs these changes is also just that -- opinion. Even if that happens to be the opinion held by TPTB.

[Uber]

I looked around to see if I could find where Brad Wright said this. The nearest I could find was this GateWorld interview, where Brad says:

He says Atlantis is a *succcessful* TV show. That doesn't sound to me like he's saying Atlantis doesn't have a leg to stand on, just that he doesn't think it can equal SG-1's success -- which in truth, few shows can.

I, for one, don't think Atlantis needs such large scale changes as have been announced. Of course, that's only my opinion. But I also think that the opinion that Atlantis needs these changes is also just that -- opinion. Even if that happens to be the opinion held by TPTB.

Given the interviews both online articles and the video ones I've seen, I think it's pretty clear that they believe that SGA as it was was not going to have the staying power it needed.

But even if they hadn't out and out said it...look at what they're doing. They're making a lot of changes. Severe ones. MAJOR ones. Ones I doubt they'd make if they didn't feel it was necessary.

In this case, I'd say their actions speak louder than their words ever could.

[ColCaldwell]

Carter cannot be in command. We've seen it tried in S8 and it just didn't work. She just doesn't have the command style needed.

[ColCaldwell]

In The Long Goodbye, when both Sheppard and Weir were out for the count, Caldwell assumed command. However, I remember Rodney butting heads with him because Rodney said that after Elizabeth he was the highest ranking civilian in leadership and the job fell to him. Caldwell basically just ignored him. Rodney allowed Caldwell to take command because Caldwell said it was a military situation, however I doubt Rodney would have let him keep command thereafter. Obviously, there is a chain of command even among the civilians. From what I gather, a civilian would step up to replace Weir, while a military officer would replace Sheppard. So if anything happened to Weir, Rodney would replace her, right? Unless, of course, Carter just comes in, and the US military assumes command of everything, regardless of what countries the soldiers are from.

Maybe the international forces can cause a mutany and become Ford-like, establishing another base somewhere else in PG. That would be interesting.

Not like Rodney would keep Caldwell at bay due to his grand stature. And Oh God, I like McKay but he is the WORST one to have command in anything.

[chocdoc]

I didn't say that Daniel should replace Weir I dn't think she needs to be replaced by anyone. What I said was if any character from SG1 has to be on Atlantis it should be Daniel.

As I said, if Daniel were coming to Atlantis for 14 episodes, you would still see the negative reaction from SGA fans.