Submersion (318)

[sgeureka]

Okay, I come here without having read all the other posts.

The episode was a little better than average. The beginning was very strong, so was the end, but the middle was kind of hu-hum.

Gracen - Gradon, Davidson - Dickinson -- LOL. I wondered all the time whether those characters were having a nice introduction here so that they could be used in later episodes, or whether they were just red shirts. I would have loved to keep both of those characters.

Visually, this episode had something to offer. The wraith make-up and the costume were very well done. The swimming pool area looked great also. My favorite shots:




There were also OMG moments that I didn't expect:
- Ronon shooting the windshield of the PJ
- the return of the Wraith shadows
- the tie-in of the Ancient war (Yeah! absolute goosepimple moment)

And I would have liked to see some Wraith corpses. Probably too expensive.

But up until the very end (goodnight BTW ), I was thinking what a security risk Teyla was to the mission. If there should ever be an Atlantis episode from the perspective of the Wraith (although i doubt it), those creatures would simply invade Teyla's mind and overthrow the Atlantis mission from within. Yes, so far, the Atlantis mission could use Teyla's Wraith-linking mind to their advantage, but this episode along with The Gift (or was it The Siege) and Michael have clearly shown that whenever the Wraiths show up, Teyla should be guarded by several people as well.

I give this episode a 7 out of 10.

[FoolishPleasure]

The name of Andy Frizzel is not in the Guest stars??? I didn't notice. This is really an insult not only for her but for all fans of Stargate Atlantis!!!!!!!!!!

TPTB will sometimes leave the name of recurring guest stars out of the opening credits for shock value in the episode. If you saw Andy's name, you would know a Wraith would show up. Removing her name takes the audience by surprise. Chris Carter did this sometimes on X-Files, especially when the evil Krychek became popular and his unexpected appearance would be a great zinger, but CC did say later that it was okayed by Nicholas Lea beforehand. I'm sure Andy's agent was aware of it, and gave the "okay".

[ata_beckett]

Okay, I come here without having read all the other posts.

The episode was a little better than average. The beginning was very strong, so was the end, but the middle was kind of hu-hum.

Gracen - Gradon, Davidson - Dickinson -- LOL. I wondered all the time whether those characters were having a nice introduction here so that they could be used in later episodes, or whether they were just red shirts. I would have loved to keep both of those characters.

HAAA. I spent the first half of the episode waiting to see when they would die.

[female Wraith]

BTW I realized that the theory about salt water and it's use as a weapon against the Wraith was submerged with this episode))

[female Wraith]

TPTB will sometimes leave the name of recurring guest stars out of the opening credits for shock value in the episode. If you saw Andy's name, you would know a Wraith would show up. Removing her name takes the audience by surprise. Chris Carter did this sometimes on X-Files, especially when the evil Krychek became popular and his unexpected appearance would be a great zinger, but CC did say later that it was okayed by Nicholas Lea beforehand. I'm sure Andy's agent was aware of it, and gave the "okay".

May be you are right.

[Pitry]

What, if I call something "cheap", I'm insulting the person who came up with it? And bashing them, too?

I'm a Rodney-type. I don't sugar coat things. I don't lie about my opinions on things. I speak my mind.

"Common Ground" was brilliant. I said so... very loudly. And repeatedly.

This episode had some bad writing. I'm saying it. Why? Because it's true and it's important that we discuss said writing so that we'll find out more about it (more bad stuff, more good stuff, whatever). And if the writers even wind up in here reading these threads (because apparentely they do), they might see that we do notice screw-ups and try to avoid them.

To constantly applaud them for everything and never criticizing them besides using words like "I didn't like the fact that" might lull them in a sense that everything they're doing is just fine.

What else should I have called the ending? "Not good"? Because "Badly written" would've been offensive too (according to some). They really must be amnesiac (that or Elizabeth is) if they're making Elizabeth call Rodney and John McKay... in the same episode.

Don't think it was badly written as much as it was a bad concept. Given the show's history there's only as much they could do and as specific places they coudl go - don't get me wrong, there were definitely writing glitches in this one.... but they should have given up the idea in the first place. Some stories just don't work - this was one of the. It reminded me of Rising - and that's definitely not a compliment. These thigns didn't work in season 1 - why should they in season three?

[silence]

About why she was on cruiser?

Lemme see.... she was leading assault on Atlantis (they didn't say she did it in a cruiser, just that she is the one who did it). She comes over Atlantis in her Hive. Ancients indentify leading ship, turn all their firepower on it .... shoot down the Hive, Queen escapes to cruiser, Ancients keep firing, seeing that leader of assault is on cruiser now... hit cruiser, cruiser crashes.

End of problem.

I think it's really nitpicking discussing why she was on cruiser. It wasn't said she led the assault in cruiser. And i simply don't see how this episode would work at all if that was Hive down there .. so they made it a cruiser. Which is (as McKay says) in pretty good shape and we might add it to the fleet at some point.

Also, keeping this Queen alive.. what would be point? what kind of information she might have? 10000 years old Wraith gossip?
One other thing, she was down there for 10000 years, feeding on her own crew, maybe that doesn't make her great candidate for keeping her around and also might have influenced her mind .... no Wraith or any other creature would keep his / her mind in such conditions, so she is maybe more of the S1 Wraith, then 3d ones we got in CG or Michael ...
Think about that for a second.


I liked this episode. Wraith are back and i like them much more then rehashed replicators.

[silence]

TPTB will sometimes leave the name of recurring guest stars out of the opening credits for shock value in the episode. If you saw Andy's name, you would know a Wraith would show up. Removing her name takes the audience by surprise. Chris Carter did this sometimes on X-Files, especially when the evil Krychek became popular and his unexpected appearance would be a great zinger, but CC did say later that it was okayed by Nicholas Lea beforehand. I'm sure Andy's agent was aware of it, and gave the "okay".

Exactly ... and all spoilers were mentioning "unexpected guest" they will meet in this episode and as far as i remember NOONE suggested Wraith in any topics that discussed who that might be ... blah, my idea was that whales might project something Ancients put in their genetic memory ...

So, yes, having her name posted would suggest Wraith Queen.

[FallenAngelII]

BTW I realized that the theory about salt water and it's use as a weapon against the Wraith was submerged with this episode))

I thought about this, too. I always created a thread about it . People were so set on that (IMO preposterous) idea.

[lunarleviathan]

This was a so-so episode. Nothing to flashy or original but it held together well. Enjoyed it.

[Celcool]

I liked this episode. Wraith are back and i like them much more then rehashed replicators.

Give me the Wraith over replicators any time.

The episode was nothing special really. The first part of season 3 was way better for me.

[FallenAngelII]

Also, keeping this Queen alive.. what would be point? what kind of information she might have? 10000 years old Wraith gossip?
One other thing, she was down there for 10000 years, feeding on her own crew, maybe that doesn't make her great candidate for keeping her around and also might have influenced her mind .... no Wraith or any other creature would keep his / her mind in such conditions, so she is maybe more of the S1 Wraith, then 3d ones we got in CG or Michael ...
Think about that for a second.


I liked this episode. Wraith are back and i like them much more then rehashed replicators.

It's not as much about keeping her alive their unwillingness to even consider making a deal with her that if she helped them all live, they'd let her go.

Such a deal would be reasonable considering they were all about to die.

[silence]

It's not as much about keeping her alive their unwillingness to even consider making a deal with her that if she helped them all live, they'd let her go.

Such a deal would be reasonable considering they were all about to die.

And why should we expect her to be willing to do that deal? I don't recall her making any offers (ya, i know TPTB wrote it that way).

How can we know what is mind of someone who was trapped for 10000 years on the bottom of the ocean ... sure, she wanted to get away, but how much? After her plan failed, maybe she just gave up .. until she saw that planted memory?

And by the way ... what kind of deal was possible? She KNEW they will all blow up and that there is no ship capable of taking them out.

What exactly would you offer her in that situation?

[FallenAngelII]

And why should we expect her to be willing to do that deal? I don't recall her making any offers (ya, i know TPTB wrote it that way).

How can we know what is mind of someone who was trapped for 10000 years on the bottom of the ocean ... sure, she wanted to get away, but how much? After her plan failed, maybe she just gave up .. until she saw that planted memory?

And by the way ... what kind of deal was possible? She KNEW they will all blow up and that there is no ship capable of taking them out.

What exactly would you offer her in that situation?

She's a Wraith. Who waged war on Atlantis. Her mind is set on war and whatnot.

But at the same time she wants to live. She only set her ship to self-destruct after finding out people were approaching (a.k.a. a way out). Of course she might be a bit out of it, but they could at least have made the offer!

They were in grave danger, about to die in less than two hours but they decide to not even offer, even after discovering the lock on the command console. Smart people offer trades.

She was a captive of people who seemed to Lanteans. Maybe she didn't expect them to let her go once they got out of there (can you imagine the Ancients doing that?). So she decided to just watch them suffer knowing they were doomed.

If they offered to not only let her live should they get out of there but also to let her go free, she probably would've agreed.

All in all, who knows why she didn't offer. Maybe she had her Queen pride. I mean, she's a Queen. She can't run off begging for her life to a bunch of humans.

[sgeureka]

BTW I realized that the theory about salt water and it's use as a weapon against the Wraith was submerged with this episode))

Or (I'm only thinking about it now...) only the Wraith Queens are not "allergic" to salt water, and the normal Wraith warriors are.

[crickets]

Yeah, what a sorry attempt to keep the old theory alive...