Hives before the First Siege of Atlantis

[bretsk2500]

Why can't tanks be compared to battleships and fighters to infantery? They do exactly the same only have one more spacial dimention to fight in.

you can't compare them because with air and sea power you can lay waste to entire cities w/o ever setting foot in them. ground troops simply don't have the firepower to compare to them. the problem w/ iraq and vietnam is that they're limited wars. if you went into either of them with a WWII mindset (i.e. collateral damage isn't an issue), resistance becomes far less of an issue.

[Jimbo-DR]

I find it VERY unlikely that the Wraith could destroy an Ancient warship 1v5. I think the Wraith would be hard put to it 1v100.

Again were talking I think thousands of Wraith ships against very few Ancient ships.

[Tassadar]

I find it VERY unlikely that the Wraith could destroy an Ancient warship 1v5. I think the Wraith would be hard put to it 1v100.

Again were talking I think thousands of Wraith ships against very few Ancient ships.

I think 1v100 is a bit much. 1v20-1v50 is probably where I would guess. It depends on if the Wraith we see now are as powerful as the Wraith that fought the war.

Also how did the Wraith build up such vast numbers? It's not like they had ships before the Ancients colonized Pegasus because they evolved from the Ancients. So where did they get this fleet of thousands? It would have taken them years if not decades to build such a fleet and all that time the Ancients just didn't notice? Seems a bit fishy if you ask me.

[beale947]

Why do everyone assume Ancient ships are these brilliant all mighty, all powerful ships. The ancients wern't exactly a soldier race, so how do we know that there ships are great. Don't forget, wraith hive ships are very powerful and can take a hell of a beating and there weapons appear to have longer range, so im guessing 1v3, 1v4 would be about it.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Why do everyone assume Ancient ships are these brilliant all mighty, all powerful ships. The ancients wern't exactly a soldier race, so how do we know that there ships are great. Don't forget, wraith hive ships are very powerful and can take a hell of a beating and there weapons appear to have longer range, so im guessing 1v3, 1v4 would be about it.

i agree, look at atlantis , 8 wraith hive ships fireing continuously,at a shield powered by a zpm. the orion class doesnt have a ZPM we know of, and i doubt its shields would last as long as atlantis's would. i think the orion would be dead in a few seconds 100v1. i think it maybe the equivalent to maybe 5 wraith hive ships maximum.

[Tassadar]

i agree, look at atlantis , 8 wraith hive ships fireing continuously,at a shield powered by a zpm. the orion class doesnt have a ZPM we know of, and i doubt its shields would last as long as atlantis's would. i think the orion would be dead in a few seconds 100v1. i think it maybe the equivalent to maybe 5 wraith hive ships maximum.

Well if the Orion has drones or a powerful beam weapon like on the defense satellite then it can probably take out a single hive ship say in a minute max. So I think it would be able to destroy 5 hive ships before they break through the shields of the Orion.

[Gregorius]

you can't compare them because with air and sea power you can lay waste to entire cities w/o ever setting foot in them. ground troops simply don't have the firepower to compare to them.

Ever heard of scaling? And ground troops can level entire cities without even setting foot in 'm.

[freyr's mother]

Well if the Orion has drones or a powerful beam weapon like on the defense satellite then it can probably take out a single hive ship say in a minute max. So I think it would be able to destroy 5 hive ships before they break through the shields of the Orion.

This is how it would probably happen. The ancient ships opens up on a hive with its satellite beam weapon (Yes, I know it's not a real satellite.). While the beam weapon is charging, it releases drones on another ship. That ship is destroyed. They target another ship with the recharged beam weapon. The cycle repeats until either they destroy all the ships, they turn tail and riun, or they are destroyed.

[Tassadar]

Ever heard of scaling? And ground troops can level entire cities without even setting foot in 'm.

While I agree that ground forces can be as effective in leveling cities as air and naval forces can, I still don't agree with your original comparison. Humans are just very easy targets on the ground. Anyone has the power to walk and shoot. It's not that hard. Anyone with even the most crude explosive can simply walk up to a soldier and set it off. However in space this is a very different matter. Technology plays a much bigger role. Just like in air and sea battles of modern times. I don't care what tactics the Iraq air force can use, there is simply no way they could stand up to the US air force. The US air force just has too much of a tech advantage over them. Same concept applies to sea battles.

[Gregorius]

While I agree that ground forces can be as effective in leveling cities as air and naval forces can, I still don't agree with your original comparison. Humans are just very easy targets on the ground. Anyone has the power to walk and shoot. It's not that hard. Anyone with even the most crude explosive can simply walk up to a soldier and set it off.

*Sighs* I merely commenting on the same type of roles the units (Soldiers and fightercraft) seem to have.

[rarocks24]

Also losses in Iraq are do to ground warfare. It's very different. Space combat is based, for a large part, on technology. The best way to compare it to modern terms I guess would be the Navy or the Air Force. Iraq cannot possibly hope to go up against the USAF or Navy.

It isn't so much ground warfare as it is a style of warfare the iraqi insurgents (who for the most part aren't Iraqi) are doing. It was a method of warfare. It's not to actually win battles (The U.S. has won every engagement), it's to demoralize the enemy and exhaust the enemy's will to fight on both the Home Front and the Battlefield. It was what Hitler attempted to do to Britain, and what the North Vietnamese succeeded in doing to the U.S.

As far as the Wraith winning against the Ancients, the Ancients were outnumbered, and despite superior technology, were forced to retreat, leaving their descendents in Pegasus to be used as a food source. It was most likely done as a method of warfare in itself. If the wraith wipe out their food source do to hunger, the enemy would starve to death. They could then return to Pegasus, perhaps the reason for the Ancients leaving the location of Atlantis in Earth's database upon their return (it's not clear when they returned, though it's possible they returned through the Antarctic stargate as the other one is buried and I doubt they returned during the time of Ra.

[Jimbo-DR]

I think the Ancient ships are that powerful because throughout seasons 1 through 9 the Ancients have been portrayed as an incredibly advanced race FAR beyond anything else in the Galaxy. And the Orion and Aurora WERE built for war, thats why their called Ancient Warships.

And Atlantis had a ZPM that was NOT fully charged to begin with, and with 8 Hive ships going all out Rodney said it would take Days. The ZPM will be depleted in Days. Direct quote. Now I'm assuming that if you put an Ancient ship crew into a fully powered Ancient warship, which is probably using a ZPM to power itself(hence fully powered), and give them even an hour(which means you multiply the Hives attacking them by 10 or so), there going to waste the Hive ships before they can destroy the Ancient ship.

[swifty]

i agree, look at atlantis , 8 wraith hive ships fireing continuously,at a shield powered by a zpm. the orion class doesnt have a ZPM we know of, and i doubt its shields would last as long as atlantis's would. i think the orion would be dead in a few seconds 100v1. i think it maybe the equivalent to maybe 5 wraith hive ships maximum.

consider the hive ships only managed to fire continuously for days because Atlantis didn't exactly have anything to fire back with.

[freyr's mother]

There were actually 10 hives firing on atlantis in TSIII.

[Ace-Ventura]

you can't expect that the shield on a city can be the same on a warship