The Lost Boys (210)

[Comblin]

Just tptb pulling our legs..
/C

[Major Tyler]

Looks like we got Shep-hatas and Ford-hatas going at it in this thread. I love them both so I'm having a hard time biting my tongue.

[AGateFan]

Maybe someone stole it from Weirs office.

The Deadelus must have had to use a whole cargo hold for all her stuff, and thats just the stuff in her office. I wonder what her actual room\apartment looks like.

[AGateFan]

Shep-hatas and Ford-hatas? Im not sure I know what that means, but I suspect your making it a Versus issue.

I love Shep and Ford. But I can see no way (in this ep) how anything was Sheps fault. Ford had some issues with his logic but thats mostly due to the drugs, not Ford himself.

[knocknashee]

Did I actually read someone giving Shep crp for setting off the alarm? Exactly what was he supposed to do? The autopilot took over the ship, landed the ship and lowered the canopy and two wraith walk up. He can a) kill the wraith and thus set off the alarm b) get captured by the wraith and thus set off the alarm.... The only way the alarm could not be set off is if this extremely ill-thought-out plan wasn’t actually followed.

Neither Shep, McKay nor anyone else knew that the dart would go to autopilot prior to the mission since no one had actually ever flew a dart into a hive ship before. Perhaps if they had taken time to think the plan through someone may have thought about how it would be pretty stupid for a wraith to fly a fighter into a hive ship with an opaque canopy and how, perhaps the computer would take control of the landing of the ship. I myself am quite surprised that the wraith transporter doesn’t automatically beam the captured pray into a some kind of holding\processing bin upon arrival. It is quite clear no one thought the plan through and since SG-A1 were all prisoners being forced to follow the bad plan we can safely assume that none of them were responsible for the bad plan.

Alas, yes you did read that...didn't come from me though...

I all but agreed with everything you said in a previous post...

[knocknashee]

Looks like we got Shep-hatas and Ford-hatas going at it in this thread. I love them both so I'm having a hard time biting my tongue.

I don't hate Ford at all...for the record...I just think his behaviour in this ep was irredeemable. I defy anyone to try and validate his actions when he intentionally made drug addicts of his former teammates, especially given the furore there was over Shep forcing that kiss on Teyla...

Wrong wrong wrong...both violations of the higest order...

I love Shep and Ford. But I can see no way (in this ep) how anything was Sheps fault. Ford had some issues with his logic but thats mostly due to the drugs, not Ford himself.

Agreed...I stand by my analogy of Ford though...that boy has seriously lost it...

[Major Tyler]

I don't hate Ford at all...for the record...I just think his behaviour in this ep was irredeemable. I defy anyone to try and validate his actions when he intentionally made drug addicts of his former teammates, especially given the furore there was over Shep forcing that kiss on Teyla...

Wrong wrong wrong...

Well, Shep forced himself on Teyla when he was under the influence of alien DNA, and Ford forced his drug on the team when he was under the influence of a psychotropic Wraith drug. Can't we both agree that neither Shep nor Ford would do those things if they truely have a choice in the matter?

Everyone is so quick to call Ford a b@stard and Shep a sexual predator, when the fact of the matter is that they were not fully in control of their actions when they committed those acts. The only person that has actually committed an atrocity completely of his own free will is Ronon, and there was hardly a titter about that.

[SnoggingPicard]

I don't know exactly how I feel about Shep's role in this episode. I understand his plan about getting out of there using the Wraith Dart ship, but it pained me to see what it was doing to his team. I know that they had little chance of getting out of there if it came down to hand-to-hand combat, but the fact that he didn't even try to make an escape attempt left a sour taste in my mouth. It was kind of unfair to him to accept Ford's terms and wait it out -- he was the only one who wasn't being pumped full of enzyme. While he had his own thoughts and level head, McKay was dealing with fixing the Wraith ship (possibly going through withdrawal, though I think a lot of that was in his head). Ronon and Teyla -- that really turned my stomach. Because Shep decided to hang in there until they could make a clean getaway, they were being physically beaten and forcefully injected with the enzyme. I know that planning an escape would probably not have worked, but the fact that Shep wasn't more pissed about what Ford was doing to his friends or more forceful about bargaining for their well-being seemed a little off.

[FoolishPleasure]

I love Shep and Ford. But I can see no way (in this ep) how anything was Sheps fault. Ford had some issues with his logic but thats mostly due to the drugs, not Ford himself.

I agree completely.

Can't fault Shep - he had no idea the autopilot would engage. Ford was high on drugs. Sort of a useless argument trying to find blame for the collapse of a plan that was "iffy" at best. But it did put all our heroes in jeopardy, which is just where TPTB wanted them to be.

At least the alarm let us see Ronon use his sword.

[Merentha]

I don't hate Ford at all...for the record...I just think his behaviour in this ep was irredeemable. I defy anyone to try and validate his actions when he intentionally made drug addicts of his former teammates, especially given the furore there was over Shep forcing that kiss on Teyla...

Wrong wrong wrong...both violations of the higest order...

I agree. I like Ford and I like his character arc, but the suggestion that the wonderful plan of forcing his former friends and teammates into becoming drug addicts makes him worthy of leadership is ridiculous. I don't see anyone suggesting bug!Shep should be the leader of Atlantis.

On another note, I was hoping Shep's experience in Conversion would come into play in this episode, particularly him relating to Ford... well, hopefully it will in the conclusion.

[Atlantis1]

I don't dislike Ford either. I agree that he was wrong in forcing the drug on the others. I understand his side of the story but I can't agree with it.

[AGateFan]

Well, Shep forced himself on Teyla when he was under the influence of alien DNA, and Ford forced his drug on the team when he was under the influence of a psychotropic Wraith drug. Can't we both agree that neither Shep nor Ford would do those things if they truely have a choice in the matter?

Everyone is so quick to call Ford a b@stard and Shep a sexual predator, when the fact of the matter is that they were not fully in control of their actions when they committed those acts. The only person that has actually committed an atrocity completely of his own free will is Ronon, and there was hardly a titter about that.

I agree with you. The only thing I slightly disagree with is calling what Ronan did an Atrocity... I dont feel I know enough of what actually happened to classify it as an atrocity (crime yes, atrocity not sure). For all we know the guy he shot could be tantamount to Hitler, but we dont know.

Ford was clearly affected by the drugs and since he didnt become addicted by choice there is nothing you can really blame on him. Same with Shep in his actions as the man-bug just like Ronan\Teyla should they now do something out of character.

Now if they clean any of these characters up and then they choose to go back to the drug, then you can blame them. I think the guys following Ford are actually more culpable for their actions then he is, since they choose this of their own free will.

[edotkyle]

Maybe someone stole it from Weirs office.

The Deadelus must have had to use a whole cargo hold for all her stuff, and thats just the stuff in her office. I wonder what her actual room\apartment looks like.

eh, that sounds like a bit of a stretch

[AGateFan]

eh, that sounds like a bit of a stretch

Sorry, guess I should have clarified that I was joking

I was struck by how decorated Weirs office was, I didnt actually notice the decorations in the bar, but Weir had lots.

[Atlantis1]

Well, Shep forced himself on Teyla when he was under the influence of alien DNA, and Ford forced his drug on the team when he was under the influence of a psychotropic Wraith drug. Can't we both agree that neither Shep nor Ford would do those things if they truely have a choice in the matter?

Everyone is so quick to call Ford a b@stard and Shep a sexual predator, when the fact of the matter is that they were not fully in control of their actions when they committed those acts. The only person that has actually committed an atrocity completely of his own free will is Ronon, and there was hardly a titter about that.

I agree with leaving the name calling out but I think the situations are a bit different. Sheppard apologized to Teyla for what happened. Also he was cooperating in tthere effect to reverse the effects of the retro-virus. Ford didn't want help in trying to get himself back to normal. There is a big different in the two incidents.