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    OMG futhermucker!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That was my reaction to pretty much the entire second half of that episode.
    The following is pretty much a stream-of-consciousness ramble of squee-age about the episode.

    Pissedoff!McKay rocks my socks. “I was drugged against my will, ya little punk!” I loved that. Oh, how I loved that. I seriously thought at some points during this episode that he was just going to haul off and punch someone. It was a refreshing change from scared-out-of-his-mind McKay. It would have been cool to see him totally hopped up and fighting, but I’m glad the writers didn’t do that; it would have gone against the character.
    I also love how the boys tried to get on his good side by asking him for help. Appeal to the ego, that’s the way to get to McKay. I also love the way that he refused to fix the dart even after they were all like “But you are the great and powerful McKay! We need your help!” He knew it was a crappy idea and wasn’t about to send them all to their deaths. Its always easier to save the lives of people you’ve met than to save the lives of people you haven’t. He’s not willing to risk these people’s lives (esp. not Ford, because I think he still does care, as pissed as he is) on something that has so small a chance of working. If it were a suicide mission that stood a chance in hell of working, then maybe he would have done it.
    I was kind of sad at the line "This is how it felt when I toked pot once in college", though. Only once? Now I don't get to have the image of young, stoned Rodney.

    But off of McKay and on to Ronon and Teyla. They have such a sibling dynamic!!!!!!! The fight over the dinner table? Such a sibling thing! I love their chemistry and camaraderie. I see no canon ship there, and that makes me happy, because canon ship = bad.

    Weir. Or, shall I say, Mama Weir. All concerned over her kids and sending Lorne off to check on them. I didn’t get the feeling that he wasn’t concerned, more of the feeling that, “c’mon, we just got back, can’t we have like an hour of downtime?” But Weir trusts Lorne, and she sends him out. I like that Lorne is being shown more and more, and I like how the writers and Kavan Smith are developing his character. Makes the show feel like even more of an ensemble cast than it already was. And he shows the dry humour so necessary to Stargate (“maybe someone can, but that’s a little outside of my abilities”).

    And we got Zelenka! Yay for Zelenka! With the messed up hair that shows he had clearly been running his hands through it in frustration. It wasn’t a long scene, but hey, I love the character, so allow me my squee. Ya know, we see almost as much of him as we see of Beckett, can he be listed as a regular, too? Please?????????????

    Okay, this episode proved to me that my apathy towards Ford in season 1 was the fault of the writers and not Rainbow. They gave him some depth, they showed that he does have some skill as a leader (probably would have been a half-way decent one had he not been quite as hopped up), and they showed that he cared about his men. They also showed how young and lost he is, keeping with the “Lost Boys” title. At the end, he sounded like a pissy teenager ("snot-nosed brat", as Shep says), and the whole bent on proving himself thing is a trademark of the young as well. I really want to see him detoxed and returned to Earth, but at the same time I don’t, because then I wouldn’t get to see crazy Ford anymore, and I don’t know that the writers quite know what to do with him when he’s sane.

    I loved Elizabeth’s refusal to presume the team dead or permanently lost. She knows she should, but she can’t because she’s involved on an emotional level. That’s what I like about the Stargate series: everyone cares about their team. I say her reluctance is on an emotional level rather than a logical “they’ve pulled miracles out of their rears before” because of the way in which the line was written, and also in how Torri Higginson delivered it. It wasn’t a flat out, “nope, they’ll get through this”; she almost said it and then retreated. A logical denial would have been like Jack in “Threads”: nope, he keeps coming back, I refuse to believe it this time. In this, Weir’s really worried, and I like that. It also goes beyond her being friends with the team (although that’s the main part of it); Atlantis needs it’s Chief Scientist and Chief Military officer back, dammit.


    We get a female Wraith, and she brings John to his knees! Girl power, yo!

    Oh, and then there's "R-2, turn off the auto-pilot NOW"...so great.

    This was a truly kick-a** episode, a cliff-hanger as a mid-season break should be. It leaves the audience wanting more. I think they should have aired this and Aurora separately though; this episode didn’t need the “Aurora” lead-in. It was probably done so as not to give us two cliff-hangers in one night, but still, this definitely deserves to be watched on it’s own.
    They say the geek never gets the girl...what about the girl getting the geek?

    Rodney/Teyla...it could happen

    spoilers for "200"
    Spoiler:
    Gen. Hammond: It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I'm the general, and I want it to spin!
    ********

    Vala: Are you saying that General O'Neill is...

    Cam: My daddy?

    Comment


      Originally posted by starfox
      OMG futhermucker!!!!!!!!!!!!

      That was my reaction to pretty much the entire second half of that episode.
      The following is pretty much a stream-of-consciousness ramble of squee-age about the episode.

      Pissedoff!McKay rocks my socks. “I was drugged against my will, ya little punk!” I loved that. Oh, how I loved that. I seriously thought at some points during this episode that he was just going to haul off and punch someone. It was a refreshing change from scared-out-of-his-mind McKay. It would have been cool to see him totally hopped up and fighting, but I’m glad the writers didn’t do that; it would have gone against the character.
      I also love how the boys tried to get on his good side by asking him for help. Appeal to the ego, that’s the way to get to McKay. I also love the way that he refused to fix the dart even after they were all like “But you are the great and powerful McKay! We need your help!” He knew it was a crappy idea and wasn’t about to send them all to their deaths. Its always easier to save the lives of people you’ve met than to save the lives of people you haven’t. He’s not willing to risk these people’s lives (esp. not Ford, because I think he still does care, as pissed as he is) on something that has so small a chance of working. If it were a suicide mission that stood a chance in hell of working, then maybe he would have done it.
      I was kind of sad at the line "This is how it felt when I toked pot once in college", though. Only once? Now I don't get to have the image of young, stoned Rodney.

      But off of McKay and on to Ronon and Teyla. They have such a sibling dynamic!!!!!!! The fight over the dinner table? Such a sibling thing! I love their chemistry and camaraderie. I see no canon ship there, and that makes me happy, because canon ship = bad.

      Weir. Or, shall I say, Mama Weir. All concerned over her kids and sending Lorne off to check on them. I didn’t get the feeling that he wasn’t concerned, more of the feeling that, “c’mon, we just got back, can’t we have like an hour of downtime?” But Weir trusts Lorne, and she sends him out. I like that Lorne is being shown more and more, and I like how the writers and Kavan Smith are developing his character. Makes the show feel like even more of an ensemble cast than it already was. And he shows the dry humour so necessary to Stargate (“maybe someone can, but that’s a little outside of my abilities”).

      And we got Zelenka! Yay for Zelenka! With the messed up hair that shows he had clearly been running his hands through it in frustration. It wasn’t a long scene, but hey, I love the character, so allow me my squee. Ya know, we see almost as much of him as we see of Beckett, can he be listed as a regular, too? Please?????????????

      Okay, this episode proved to me that my apathy towards Ford in season 1 was the fault of the writers and not Rainbow. They gave him some depth, they showed that he does have some skill as a leader (probably would have been a half-way decent one had he not been quite as hopped up), and they showed that he cared about his men. They also showed how young and lost he is, keeping with the “Lost Boys” title. At the end, he sounded like a pissy teenager ("snot-nosed brat", as Shep says), and the whole bent on proving himself thing is a trademark of the young as well. I really want to see him detoxed and returned to Earth, but at the same time I don’t, because then I wouldn’t get to see crazy Ford anymore, and I don’t know that the writers quite know what to do with him when he’s sane.

      I loved Elizabeth’s refusal to presume the team dead or permanently lost. She knows she should, but she can’t because she’s involved on an emotional level. That’s what I like about the Stargate series: everyone cares about their team. I say her reluctance is on an emotional level rather than a logical “they’ve pulled miracles out of their rears before” because of the way in which the line was written, and also in how Torri Higginson delivered it. It wasn’t a flat out, “nope, they’ll get through this”; she almost said it and then retreated. A logical denial would have been like Jack in “Threads”: nope, he keeps coming back, I refuse to believe it this time. In this, Weir’s really worried, and I like that. It also goes beyond her being friends with the team (although that’s the main part of it); Atlantis needs it’s Chief Scientist and Chief Military officer back, dammit.


      We get a female Wraith, and she brings John to his knees! Girl power, yo!

      Oh, and then there's "R-2, turn off the auto-pilot NOW"...so great.

      This was a truly kick-a** episode, a cliff-hanger as a mid-season break should be. It leaves the audience wanting more. I think they should have aired this and Aurora separately though; this episode didn’t need the “Aurora” lead-in. It was probably done so as not to give us two cliff-hangers in one night, but still, this definitely deserves to be watched on it’s own.
      Wow. Um...wow! I don't need to say anything else -- this is exactly what I felt, and you managed to put it much more nicely and concisely than I could. Thanks a bunch!

      "But that man who has known the immense unhappiness of losing a friend, by what name do we call him? Here every language is silent and holds its peace in impotence." ~In memory of Whistler84...loved and missed but never, never forgotten. Safe journey, my dear friend. Love you.

      HIC COMITAS REGIT How long until Shore Leave 29???

      Comment


        Sheppard, having tried to force Ford's hand twice before and failing. I think he knew he couldn't win that way. So it would be a battle of wits. Also, having gone through his own "altered" state recently, he could identify with Ford.

        He was doing only the minimum necessary, like cutting back on McKay's dose. For the most part, he knew trying to reason with Teyla and Ronan wouldn't work.

        Unfortunately, in the end Ford saw through his plan. Got to have so many trial/fails per episode, and that was one.

        Comment


          Originally posted by starfox
          OMG futhermucker!!!!!!!!!!!!
          wow, I clicked on this thread and this was the first thing I saw, thats interesting.

          Comment


            Wow..a lot of reading...may cause my incoherent thoughts...

            There are a lot of great points made....so I don't want to repeat myself...
            Overall, not my favorite episode at all...
            The best way that I can describe this episode without stepping on anyone's toes...is that all of the characters were acting unlike themselves...Sheppard, not sticking up for his team-mates...allowing Teyla and Ronon to continue with the drug....thinking that Ford would fall for his great plan line...so unlike Sheppard...someone here describe it best...he was awfully quite....

            Rodney...seemed to be the only one thinking and acting like Rodney would even while "high"....

            Teyla....so unpredictable...and so inconsistent with her character...one minute she is in favor of the drug, the next she is for it...then she is smiling and beating the crap out of Ronon and enjoying the whole thing....not like her at all...she is usually calm and well-mannered...she doesn't use her fighting abilities for pleasure or for fun....why do they have to show her "addict" state of mind, by her being beat up by Ronon and actually enjoying it? Why does she always have to take in the entire "beat me up Scotty"....is she the new barbarian woman!Getting pleasure out of getting her butt whipped by a man and finding this tasteful and exciting...I don't care if she was high....there are other ways to show this....JMO

            Ronon...he liked the drug and like Ford predicted, he wants to continue it....
            What does this mean? Is he going to turn on us? Who knows...But, also, beating Teyla...well, I guess that is not so unpredictable..that is his way...but still, he just acted so much differently than his usual way of defending and watching over Teyla....don't know how to quite describe it....

            Ford...clearly he is gone..and I don't think there is a turning back point....

            Weir...loosing her self control AGAIN! Just when I was starting to like her leadership skills in Conversion...here we go again...I knew that her reactions in Conversion were simply because it had to do with Sheppard...again...he dictates for her what she is going to do...I hate this...Get a hold of yourself woman...there are other men out there....She is loosing it! you should still be pissed off that he choked you...yeah...let him suffer a little...teach him a lesson~

            So, in my point of view..everyone was just acting out of character..I don't know if part of this was part of the idea...but I guess I just didn't follow it..and it had nothing to do with them being drugged....it was just in general...JMO
            sigpic

            Comment


              Good title! Everyone seemed a bit lost, and not just the boys.

              Comment


                Originally posted by SnoggingPicard
                Wow. Um...wow! I don't need to say anything else -- this is exactly what I felt, and you managed to put it much more nicely and concisely than I could. Thanks a bunch!


                Always glad to be of use!


                Oh, and something I didn't mention on the last post...does the inside of the dart remind anyone else of a Cylon Raider?

                And Ronon with the sword? So frickin' cool. Who else got a kinda samurai vibe from that sequence?
                Last edited by starfox; 24 September 2005, 07:44 PM.
                They say the geek never gets the girl...what about the girl getting the geek?

                Rodney/Teyla...it could happen

                spoilers for "200"
                Spoiler:
                Gen. Hammond: It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I'm the general, and I want it to spin!
                ********

                Vala: Are you saying that General O'Neill is...

                Cam: My daddy?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by starfox
                  Oh, and something I didn't mention on the last post...does the inside of the dart remind anyone else of a Cylon Raider?
                  Eh, not so much. Did the inside of the dart really look organic to you? It had an interesting design but it didn't look like there was any blood or veins in it. Then again, I didn't get a good look. I was too busy making Independence Day comparisons.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Camy
                    The best way that I can describe this episode without stepping on anyone's toes...is that all of the characters were acting unlike themselves...Sheppard, not sticking up for his team-mates...allowing Teyla and Ronon to continue with the drug....thinking that Ford would fall for his great plan line...so unlike Sheppard...someone here describe it best...he was awfully quite....
                    Sheppard couldn't take on Ford or his friends physically, so he had to come up with a plan of his own - play along, scoop up his team, and get outta Dodge. He didn't "allow" Teyla and Ronon to take the drug - it was in their food to begin with, and he had no choice. We aren't sure Shep was even aware they were being injected later. He was also probably thinking Beckett can do something for them when they get back to Atlantis.

                    Teyla....so unpredictable...and so inconsistent with her character...one minute she is in favor of the drug, the next she is for it...then she is smiling and beating the crap out of Ronon and enjoying the whole thing....not like her at all...she is usually calm and well-mannered...she doesn't use her fighting abilities for pleasure or for fun....why do they have to show her "addict" state of mind, by her being beat up by Ronon and actually enjoying it? Why does she always have to take in the entire "beat me up Scotty"....is she the new barbarian woman!Getting pleasure out of getting her butt whipped by a man and finding this tasteful and exciting...I don't care if she was high....there are other ways to show this....JMO
                    I rather liked Teyla in this episode. We saw her inhibitions dropped a bit. .heck, she actually LAUGHED (at/with Ronon, no less). We have never seen her outright laugh, even around Sheppard. I'm thinking she does sort of "notice" Ronon, and he obviously notices her, so the drug made them drop their guard a bit. Neither of them has taken the drug for long, so I wouldn't consider them "addicts" just yet. No one seemed to have the upper hand in the "salad fight" - Teyla was holding her own with Ronon it seemed. It was nothing like the Sheppard "kiss" last week where she was obviously frightened.

                    Weir...loosing her self control AGAIN! Just when I was starting to like her leadership skills in Conversion...here we go again...
                    Its well known around here that you can't stand the character of Weir. Any chance you get. . .you'll take.



                    When all else fails, change channels.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by SnoggingPicard
                      Sheppard was able to get "back to normal" as it were, recognize where he may have injured a friend, and was human enough to make sure that she was okay. Ford has shown no remorse for what he has done, and even though he is still addicted to the enzyme he forced drugs on unwilling people and didn't care. I don't think that we're going to be able to get him back.
                      Which is basically what I am saying. I don't approve of what Ford is doing and yes he is probably past the point of no return. However back in The Siege pt3 he might have been able to be saved but he chose not to be brought back to his self. He is to the point now where he belives he is right in believing the supersoldiers are the only way to fight the wraith. I think Sheppaed will sadly come to the conclusion that he will have to kill Ford. Not an easy chose concidering they were friends. I feel for both characters.
                      "Embress your life, find what it is that you love, and pursue it with all your soul. For if you do not, when you come to die, you will find that you have not lived."

                      A character from the novel "Chindi" by Jack McDevitt

                      Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
                      'Eleanor Roosevelt'
                      Individuality is freedom lived.
                      'Janis Joplin'

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Major Tyler
                        Sheppard apologized after he got well. Ford has yet to get well, so you can hardly compare the two situations. In fact, Ford often apologized after doing something violent without being cured. Case in point being immediately after he released Beckett from his kung-fu grip in Siege III, he apologized, and after shooting in the air above Rodney in Runner he apologized. Personally, I think Aiden's finding the strength for remorse while still being under the influence counts for more than an apology after-the-fact. If you'll remember, after kissing Teyla, John just licked his lips and said it was "interesting."Shep was turning into and alien bug, whereas Ford was just becoming stronger and more powerful...very different situations. Also, Shep wasn't addicted to Iratus venom.
                        I can see what you are saying but since Runner I have the feeling he no longer trust anyone (not even Sheppard) from Atlantis. I feel he knew well what he was doing in drugging Sheppards team. I didn't see any remorse in this act.

                        As far as Sheppard forced kiss, he did say he didn't know what just happened. You could see he was confused. We don't know for sure if he would have apologized if they hadn't been interrupted by Weir.
                        "Embress your life, find what it is that you love, and pursue it with all your soul. For if you do not, when you come to die, you will find that you have not lived."

                        A character from the novel "Chindi" by Jack McDevitt

                        Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
                        'Eleanor Roosevelt'
                        Individuality is freedom lived.
                        'Janis Joplin'

                        Comment


                          *giggle* Posted it in the wrong thread the first time... Too much scifi in one day methinks...

                          The Lost Boys... eh? As in Peter Pan, Captain Hook, Never Never Land... Yeah, the Lost Boys who thought they could take on the Indians and got captured instead... Sounds vaguely familiar.

                          I miss Ford... the other Ford... the sweet, grandparent loving, Sheppard loyal Ford. The one that many voices said was boring and undeveloped... I liked him and I want him back. This Ford, I feel like taking across my knee and giving him a good spanking in a parental sort of way because he's turning into the words of Lt Col John Sheppard, "a snotty-nosed brat". I know, I know... he's not himself and he's not in full command of his faculties... but somebody please knock him over the head and drag him back to Atlantis because the time for mollycoddling him is OVER! That chip on his shoulder is growing faster than the Wraith can scoop their victims.

                          Poor Sheppard, it's all dejavu for him... What is it with him and females? At least he'll have piloting a dart down on his CV if he survives this.

                          So Teyla and Ronon are not only doing a duet now but the tango... Or is it some kind of sexual assault?
                          sigpic
                          "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by deathbed1983
                            am i just weird?
                            yep
                            gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
                            so for now, peace love love love more love and happy, and thank you, thank you, thank you
                            love Torri

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Easter Lily
                              I miss Ford... the other Ford... the sweet, grandparent loving, Sheppard loyal Ford. The one that many voices said was boring and undeveloped... I liked him and I want him back. This Ford, I feel like taking across my knee and giving him a good spanking in a parental sort of way because he's turning into the words of Lt Col John Sheppard, "a snotty-nosed brat". I know, I know... he's not himself and he's not in full command of his faculties... but somebody please knock him over the head and drag him back to Atlantis because the time for mollycoddling him is OVER! That chip on his shoulder is growing faster than the Wraith can scoop their victims.
                              I didn't even notice the thread title...

                              Ford always seemed to me to have the potential for snotty chip-on-the-shoulder brattiness. It certainly came out in The Storm/The Eye and Hot Zone. To me the enzyme brings out the worst traits in people and it brings out all the resentful uncertainty in Ford that he wouldn't normally display, that he probably wouldn't even be aware that he has.

                              Comment


                                The Lost Boys of Peter Pan also didn't want their parents around, telling them what to do. Even if it was for their own good.

                                I just hope they bring Ford back from the brink. I'm getting tired of Crazy Darkside Ford. Let him realize his mistakes, eh? And STAY aware. *sigh*

                                Comment

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