The Storm (110)

[Panther]

Personally, after seeing both parts, I wouldn't have wasted the C-4 on Kolya's guys. I think that might be Sheppard's feeling too. The less they get near it, the better; which includes blowing some of it up. Loud or Big bangs *attract* more attention... sometimes unwanted attention, especially if the wrong folks show up... and that means Sheppard's odds of surviving might drop drastically...

You ever heard of ambush? 70% effect and surprise, 30% actual killing the enemy...

[SGalisa]

(IMO) Problem with "ambushing and rescuing" too early in a 2-part story. When all that ambushing and saving is done and over with, what will be used as the story's encore? ...a whole hour to just watch and wait for the storm... If the purpose was to have a 2 or 3-fold storyline occurring in sync with the oncoming hurricane and eye-wall, what *a-maz-ing* techiniques or problem will occur in suspenseful sync with the arrival of the storm's most critical point?

some (POV-?) Notes:
1) For one thing, Sheppard did NOT have the luxury of time to set up an ambush, nor rescue anyone between the time he first heard Kolya and reached the last grounding station.

2) The entire grounding station procedure got interrupted and wrecked by Kolya's men. That put Sheppard into a very bad mood time wise. He knew if McKay had a way to fix the situation, he'd have to get WORD to him ASAP to give McKay time to think about a Plan B.

3) if part 2 didn't happen the way it did, there wouldn't be a need for putting Shep into

Spoiler:

one man army mode; nor into stealth mode

4) What was the purpose of this entire (2-part) story? to blow things up, or motivate plot suspense and emotional angst?

[Panther]

No after he rescued them, it would have been interesting how they would have solved the crisis facing Atlantis. I belive Kolya would have had the advantage of numbers, and tactical position, while the embryonic Atlantis Command would have the necessary knowledge and skills to save Atlantis. The normalised strength values then would have been equal. Then it would have been intersting to see how the various issues abounding could have been resolved.

1) How so?
2) Yes, all the more reason to rescue McKay so he can work on a solution.
3) Yes there would have been. If things went sour and military action was needed to force the issue, then Shep would still have gone on his little rampage.
4)All three.

[SGalisa]

Originally posted by SGalisa:
(IMO) Problem with "ambushing and rescuing" too early in a 2-part story....
some (POV-?) Notes:
1) For one thing, Sheppard did NOT have the luxury of time to set up an ambush, nor rescue anyone between the time he first heard Kolya and reached the last grounding station.


Originally posted by Panther:
1) How so?

Because in the STORM episode, Sheppard was basically left totally ALONE and isolated from any form of external help, I still believe:

even as a one man army, Sheppard lacked the amount of time needed to properly ambush Kolya and company just to rescue Weir and McKay in the STORM episode, because the STORM was soon approaching and Kolya's guys broke the grounding station, which immediately caused a set-back in any repair times in the process. I'm not military minded, so I won't even try going there...

...but in honor of ambushing...
I remember a Xena Christmas story, where Xena, Gabby, Santa and elves spent hours setting up various ambushes against the bad guys. That was a *classic* Xena episode, even if it wasn't a typical Xena story.

Based on how much was invested in that particular Xena ambushing and how many characters were involved, and contrasting it with SG:A's THE STORM ep, I'm guessing Sheppard lacked the luxury of time and additional manpower to foil the amount of people he didn't know how many he was actually fighting up against. Life-signs detector may have become a great help visually, but Sheppard can't be everywhere in opposite directions at the same time.

BTW, Kolya's guards were posted 360 degrees in plain sight at all the entrances of the gate control areas. Too many eyes observing each other with too much distance between point A and all other points...
========

Also, exploring Atlantis' technical wonders is a wonderful idea *if* everything resolved itself in the beginning, but lots of viewers have commented they'd prefer to see these Atlantian wonders explored gradually - not ALL at once - lest there be nothing left to write about. I'm certainly keeping this in mind for all eps: past and future...

Another Stargate technique is to create those crazy "what if" scenarios where nothing is available ...human knowledge is at its weakest... and the technology just is NOT available or fails to work properly.... That is usually when the entire Stargate series has shined at its most frustrating best, suspense-wise, IMO.

[Panther]

Not quite.
a) You have not stated the time difference from when Sheppard was informed of Wier's and McKay's situation and the time the storm would have hit.
b) You have not provided any educated estimates of how long it would have taken Sheppard to rescue Weir and McKay.
c)Why would do the guards at the entrances matter? Is Shep stupid enough to come knocking through the front door? (Probably, but you answer).
d)A snatch and grab is exactly that. No shooting has to be involved.

[SGalisa]

uggh...! This is *almost* going in circles. ...just like a hurricane!
(for everyone else: sorry for the length of details...)

Originally posted by Panther:
a) You have not stated the time difference from when Sheppard was informed of Wier's and McKay's situation and the time the storm would have hit.
b) You have not provided any educated estimates of how long it would have taken Sheppard to rescue Weir and McKay.
c)Why would do the guards at the entrances matter? Is Shep stupid enough to come knocking through the front door? (Probably, but you answer).
d)A snatch and grab is exactly that. No shooting has to be involved.

if I recall correctly, responding to the a,b,c...above:
a) watch part 2. The answer is there.

why are you asking? didn't you take *detailed* enough notes...??
(sorry, that's *all* I could think of when I went back to look at the STORM details several times over again, just to verify the info within this entire post.)

Actual answers for part 2 would probably require SPOILER tags within this STORM episode topic anyway. Since Sci-Fi denied USA viewers from seeing the EYE half this round of repeats, I cannot give an accurate answer, as I did not tape the 2nd viewing and recycled the 1st viewing for other TV shows that I had to watch at times other than when they actually aired.

Otherwise, after re-watching THE STORM, Rodney reveals in the beginning (part 1) that they all only had "just under 12 hours" before the storm reaches Atlantis (less than that for the mainland). That includes prep time for both mainland and city evacuation and work out a viable solution to save the city without a working ZPM for the shields.

By the time Kolya arrived and his guys wrecked the last station, the STORM had already reached Atlantis with one of its outer hurricane bands. It looked roughly 15 minutes away from drenching water on Sheppard. Also consider the time "a brisk walk ...run" to reach the nearest transporter. ETA? not given, except that the first station Shep finally reached after McKay and Weir both finished disabling stations 1 and 2, and meeting up with each other. ETA? unknown variable, but probably *more* than just a few minutes.

Important *detail* to remember: Atlantis itself has been equated to being at least the size of Manhatten (translates: NYC, New York - USA...not sure if that is just the borough or the entire NYC area). Either way, it's not a tiny floating device / area.

As for actually fixing the station? from memory: maybe less than 10 hours to the hurricane's center eye-wall was all McKay had to figure out "how to" and actually fix the broken grounding station problem. Someone else who actually saw it more recently could give a better answer, but it's probably already written within THE EYE thread, itself.

ETA time to actually fix the last grounding station? hours? ever see a tech person work on the following situation?

Spoiler:

I'd add that once McKay got there, on top of Sheppard disabling the power generator to keep everyone in the DARK, McKay discovered that the fiber optic looking wires were also severed. They all looked the same color, and finding the correct wires to jury rig together was more like looking for a needle in a haystack. Kolya made them sit in the torrential rains until the power came back on.

Add to that, Rodney's arm possibly getting infected without proper treatment. That alone could also impair his sense of judgement -processing solution thinking, due to both blood loss and a potential infection setting in. Not to also mention his need for frequent food intakes with him being hypoglycemic... and having the potential to pass out from poor glucose levels!

========

b) You have not provided any educated estimates of how long it would have taken Sheppard to rescue Weir and McKay.

b) from what I've read so far, neither have you...

Rescue or even a "Quick" rescue does not explain the HOW in detail minute by micro managed minute. Bopping people off in the control room area doesn't explain how Sheppard can go around 2 control/office area floors, plus at least 6 exits (based the directions the Kolya's guards scattered to) in the giant room, with a vaulted ceiling roof and deck overlooking the ocean on one side. (Set designing is one of those *specialty* details I sometimes look very intensely at.)

b) estimates of how long to rescue? how should I know? I'm not special ops. I've never been in the military, and not privvy to that kind of info.

SG:A-wise based on the unknowns and the rest of the plot details, not enough time to properly fix the grounding station (also based on part 2 spoiler details), and knock out the guys hunting the hallways for Sheppard.

c)Why would do the guards at the entrances matter? Is Shep stupid enough to come knocking through the front door? (Probably, but you answer).

POV? you just sound like you really *resent* Sheppard. If not the character, then the writing in general for Stargate as a whole entity (and this isn't the ONLY topic thread for saying that)...

Anyway...
c) POV? Kolya is the key here, not Shep. Kolya doesn't seem stupid enough to place his guards out of plain sight -should Sheppard attempt to gain access to the control/gateroom from a not so visible to Kolya angle.

But upon guessing: based on Kolya's suspicious nature, there were probably enough guys scattered about the immediate area and watching the next guy's post on a just in case mode.

Where the guards posted actually were was unknown, because the story went down a different path! Kolya later went to the grounding station taking McKay and Weir as hostages with him. ETA of getting there: unknown. ETA of storm's eye-wall approaching, also unknown -but imminent.
========
d) as for a response to this one, see b and c above. My answer stands as is.

Besides, even if Kolya's guards were all posted only a few feet into the hallways out of Kolya's direct line of sight: Kolya's control room guy had access to Atlantis' longer ranged life-signs detector, and would have known immediately if Sheppard started bopping off anyone. In a domino effect chain reaction, Sheppard probably would have then been shot on sight or overpowered and captured. It's easier to bop them off and be noticed in an isolated wing -hmmm- a mile away? ..than being right next to the control room where maximum security already was.

For any other answers, please refer to all previous postings by me and others who have *already* discussed the STORM on previous pages of this thread, and continued on the EYE (part 2) episode itself, as well.

I prefer to end this on a more positive note in defense of Stargate:

Originally posted by SGalisa:

...exploring Atlantis' technical wonders is a wonderful idea *if* everything resolved itself in the beginning, but lots of viewers have commented they'd prefer to see these Atlantian wonders explored gradually - not ALL at once - lest there be nothing left to write about. I'm certainly keeping this in mind for all eps: past and future...

Another Stargate technique is to create those crazy "what if" scenarios where nothing is available ...human knowledge is at its weakest... and the technology just is NOT available or fails to work properly.... That is usually when the entire Stargate series has shined at its most frustrating best, suspense-wise, IMO.

...and that's why I enjoy what I watch in the legends that have created SG...
not answering all the answers in one swoop may be considered a *flaw* to some people... but to others, it's very creative.

[Easter Lily]

He was a wussball! Instead of drawing the enemy out and hunting them down one by one (using the lifesigns detector) he decided to "negotiate". Kiss my hairy beehind that was a good decision... Kolya didn't even know he was there.

Poor Sheppard... it doesn't matter what he does in Atlantis, he is bound to attract criticism. On the one hand, he's a wimp... because of some inaction, on the other, he gets accused of being rash and impulsive, taking matters into his own hands and going on a killing spree...
Reminds me of the old adage: You can please some people some of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time.

Mammoth effort there, SGalisa... But I think people need to watch the entire season before they make quick character judgements.

[Panther]

It's obvious that this discussion is getting detailed real fast. My exams finish in two weeks. I'm gonna try and retrace sheppards situation, draw up maps and an execution checklist and study it's feasibility. It's obvious that to settle this issue this has to occur. Bring a change of underwear for that day

[andrelage]

this was an amazin episode. loved to see the genii once again

[captain jake]

That was awesome they pissed me off so bad when they came into atlantis but we totaly got are revenge when sheppard closed the atlantis "IRIS".

[McClance]

This is one of my favorite episodes of...of BOTH Stargate shows, actually. Koya is a brilliant bad guy--really easy to hate, gives the good guys a really tough time. And the ending... Dear Faranth!!!!! Gets me biting my fingernails everytime--and I just watched it today for the third time! I love endings like this!

[Orovingwen]

the beginning with McKay and Zelenka (his namehe knows by now... well more or less) is really great and I love Radek here. I started here to become a fan of him^^

oh and Beckett was cool "I don't have the right shoes for this" *hehe* and he looks very very very *roar* in that scene. I guess that was episode I was finally all over Carson^^ lost in that Scot... so cute *smile*
Also McKay was cool "As I said: too boring to get into" ^^

But the poor Sheppad has to go to two stations without transporter *hehe* but on the other hand..he is military he has to be in good shape

but erm.. Weir was a bit "stupid for her job" in that situation. No idea of anything... but then.. who knows what to do in a hostile situation?

This episode is really like "OMG I can't wait to the how it's end"

Kolya is really great and I love to see Sora again!

[Dr McKay]

ive re-watched this episode and every time it infuriates me, i end up shouting, swearing and spitting at it. *when i say spitting i mean like spitting fire - if that makes sence* the genii really really really get on my man boobs!

[Orovingwen]

ive re-watched this episode and every time it infuriates me, i end up shouting, swearing and spitting at it. *when i say spitting i mean like spitting fire - if that makes sence* the genii really really really get on my man boobs!

Why? I liek teh Genii and exspecially Kolya! ok in this eisode(s) they are a bit evil but... hey in brotherhood that was so cool with teh "terrorist" that's actually true^^ *note to my self: write something in the brotherhood thread*
I mean from their prospective it's not a bad actiaon "our guys" would do the same

[Catsitter]

I mean from their prospective it's not a bad actiaon "our guys" would do the same

No, I don't think they would.