John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Spectrum]

First, a disclaimer. Just because I quoted this particular message doesn’t mean that the following is aimed at the person who posted. It’s a very general – and very long, pack a lunch – bit of observation.



That term drives me absolutely bat$#!t. There isn't much similarity between what Kirk did and what happens to Shep. Kirk kind of manly manned his way around the universe doing the conquest thing (you'd think that the Prime Directive would include "don't jump the natives" or something), and was written (and overplayed) as a confident, heroic sort.

Shep - mostly thanks to JF - has a boatload of natural charisma. He's less...threatening, for lack of a better word. He's a nice guy, he smiles a lot, he flirts with everyone, and he doesn't check-out-my-heroic-manliness his way around. He's not an idiot, but he doesn't always know what he's doing and he seems to be faking it the best he can while hoping no one notices. It's endearing as hell.

He's also a guy who before coming to Atlantis spent the better part of a year (probably even longer than that) not being Mr. Popular at all, stuck in a place where the prospects were probably pretty minimal. Suddenly he's in a whole other galaxy playing space cowboy and good-looking alien women who either don't seem to know who cool he's really not (or think he's adorable anyway) are all over him. Personally, I'm glad that he doesn't put up a chaste and noble hand and say "oh I couldn't possibly" because that would make him a bit unbelievable and make me dislike him a whole lot more than all that flirting and snogging ever could.

To actually bring this whole huge chunk of blabber back on-topic…The results of the aforementioned charm and flirtation seem to depend on the other person. He was flirting like hell with Teyla when they first met, and while they seemed to be pretty fond of each other right from the start…hey, they were alone in a dark cave together and he didn’t make any moves. So. Very much not Kirk.

I wonder if Teyla ever watches his interaction with other people and looks back at the moment they met and wonders if she fell for something? Of course she knows him well enough now, I think, to know that even if that was the case back then, it isn’t anymore.

Whew.

Nicely said Giga. It's true, especially in the Tower that the girl, not Shep makes the first move. She was the one thowing herself at him, he just kinda went along with it becasue, like you said he's in a whole different galaxy where the women think he's great and are all over him. In theTower, he even says he "never sees this coming" regarding the women falling for him.

As for Teyla, I think she may have initially been affected by Shep's flirting and charm, but she isn't just one to throw herself at him like the others. Although not totally immune to the Sheppard charm, she knows him well enough now to understand his ways.

[LoveConquers]

Well said.

Sheppards nature is to flirt and his easy going laid back manner attract people to him. So as I said if he enjoys some of this attention then good for him.

He uses his charm and easy going nature to ease first contact situations and it can sometimes be interpreted as flirting. He does this with Elizabeth when he wants to get his own way and his first contact with Teyla could be construed as flirting.

Chaya was genuinally attracted to him and he had been with Teer for 6 months before they did the horizontal tango - well we assume they did. The Tower babe was after his gene and who could blame her. Let Shepp play the field a little before he realises that Teyla is the only woman for him, and they settle down and live happily ever after.

Jules, I love what you wrote too! I've always thought the same! While I don't love it, I don't condone him for it either. Now, I'm more conservative than most, but even I don't consider three girls in two years (really two and half years for J because of that whole time disortion thing) to be irresponsible. The man is single, why is there always so much emphasis placed on his suppposed "kirking?" If it had been three girls in three weeks, I wouldn't be so happy with him, single or not. But over two years? And two were not "jump in the sack the minute we meet" situations. They were developed relationships...even if we hate them! (Which, don't get me wrong, I do!) The third, Teer, who happens to be from today's ep focus, came to HIM. And I'm still not convinced that anything happened between them. I think he kind of lost the mood once he revealed to him why she was there.
The guy is a typical bachelor, and I believe we'll see less of this as his feelings for Teyla only grow stronger. I also believe he's had feelings for Teyla all this time that have been slowly, steadily growing, probably even more than he's aware, but that he also been open to other possibilities in the past because he thinks that love is unattainable and because he's probably still in denial about it to himself even. I'm waiting for the big moment to hit him this year when he realizes the truth and can't deny it to himself any longer. That still doesn't mean he won't act on it, because he most likely won't for a while, but I think that realization and awareness will either make him more careful or could even have the opposite effect (I hope not!) and make him more reckless, if he's trying to deny it and trying to prove something to himself or if he's just plain lonely and tired of denied love. So much depends on if he feels he can act on his feelings or not. He's not one to care about rules, so he doesn't seem like one to let possible job or team conflicts to control him, but who knows what the writers will come up with. Perhaps it's be more of fear or denial on his own part, thinking she doesn't feel the same and not saying anything for fear of ruining their friendship or the team dynamic. That's been the excuse for many a character in many a show! We do seem to have some indication that this is what he will do since he's kind of already done it already. He openly flirted with Teyla at first, but very quickly developed a deep respect for her as a leader and member of his team. His dynamic with her changed a little after that, he was much more subtle, although we can also see the passion that brews underneath the surface. It's only a matter of time. I also think his change in dynamic is because of Teyla's response to him. John uses his charm naturally and unconsciously to get him through a lot of situations. He started that way with Teyla, but quickly realized she saw right through him and was deeper than that. He doesn't have to act with her and can be himself with her more than with anyone. I think it's all subtle and unconscious at this point, but I think it will only continue to grow and be more obvious. That respect and appreciation and passion can't be denied for too long!

Steph

[LoveConquers]

I agree about the "kirking" not really being an apt term. Kirk "planned" his moves for specific reasons--to distract captors, to gain the trust of people who could help them, yadda yadda--and John just sort of gets jumped for his natural charm.

I acutally read a wonderful essay detailing all this on LJ but have lost the link to it. Curses! I want to read it again.

Anyway, I asked the question because <doxy adjust halo and whistles, looking innocent> I knew it would probably get people talking. And it did.

I think that Teyla gave John a clue as to how she views these women in Sanctuary when she told him they were both adults and he could go with Chaya if he wanted to--but then definitely hinted that if he could do it so could she.

Personally, I don't think John did anything more than kiss the Bimbo in Tower, particularly since he realized she only wanted to get pregnant or married to *anyone* with the gene.

He seems more of a romantic than that to me. I think he really wants to marry for love and is willing to wait until he finds that.

That said, I also agree that he'd been alone in Pegasus for a long, long time and only had a handful of women come-on to him. We only know for certain that he accepted ONE offer. And, before Pegasus, he was stuck in Antarctica, with a very limited number of free women, for a long long time. Having been AF and been stuck on isolated bases I can tell you that normally the number of men FAR outweighs the number of women--giving the women, in essence, the ability to pick and choose whomever they want to date. John seems like he doesn't have the best luck with the women HE wants, so it's possible he didn't get picked often at McMurdo.

So it's theoretically possible that he hadn't been laid in a year or more before going to Pegasus, and that by the time Tier came along, it could have been three years or so.

In my book, if the guy gets a few kisses in three years, that's okay.

I also think he's probably in love with Teyla and either doesn't realize it, is supressing the feelings because he's afraid of abandonment, or because he's afraid of rejection. Teyla's not the most open person. Most of her emotions/physical tells are so subtle that they're very open to interpretation. He may just now be able to figure out most of them and may not even know how she feels about him.

Add in that she seems to fear abandonment too, and possibly fear loss of control, and it makes it all the more likely that even if they do care deeply for each other, neither will readily admit it for fear the feelings aren't returned.

Whew! Geuss I went on a long time too!

Anyway, The Tower. I don't think he stayed with Bimbo. I think he spent a lot of the ep worried about his team and Teyla, and then trying to get the drones. I think Teyla, if she found out about Bimbo, particularly if he told her the part about 'I get to be ruler if we're married' would see the whole situation for what it was--Bimbo using John to try and stay in power and stay alive. It was completely possible that if her brother took over he'd have her killed and even if Baldy took over, if she didn't please him, HE could have her killed. The only gaurantee for her to live was to be ruler herself--and that's where John fit in.

Being a leader, I think Teyla would see it if John gave her all the details, and she wouldn't hold it against him.

Sorry I went on so long! I normally don't talk this much.

Doxymom

Oh oops, I just saw this post after posting mine long version of something similar! But oh yes, I totally agree with everything you said!

Steph

[bella]

Amen to Gigajules post about the 'Kirking'. The weird thing is, it's now entered the SG fandom to mean any kind of romatic relationship. The best example is actually a S3 spoiler...

Spoiler:

Look at the Sunday thread and the posts about Weir 'kirking' with a scientist.
It's not 'kirking' as I would define it, just a new relationship with no mention of sex.

Strange how language can evolve.

[Doxymom]

True, Bella. I didn't know it was being used generally now.

~~~~~~~

So, anyone want to write out the calm after the storm scene when Teyla and John get back to Atlantis? Did they talk to each other or spar as a way to relax and work out their worries about each other?

Doxymom

[astronomicalchick]

Well said.

Sheppards nature is to flirt and his easy going laid back manner attract people to him. So as I said if he enjoys some of this attention then good for him.

He uses his charm and easy going nature to ease first contact situations and it can sometimes be interpreted as flirting. He does this with Elizabeth when he wants to get his own way and his first contact with Teyla could be construed as flirting.

Chaya was genuinally attracted to him and he had been with Teer for 6 months before they did the horizontal tango - well we assume they did. The Tower babe was after his gene and who could blame her. Let Shepp play the field a little before he realises that Teyla is the only woman for him, and they settle down and live happily ever after.

Speaking of Kirking, my two cents worth, I think what drove me batty about it was the Tower.

Spoiler:

I mean that woman had zilch personality and Shep just look like he was hypnotised by her boobs. I'd just like to think he was a bit beyond that myself. That's my only beef. I don't have an issue with him kissing/whatever other women myself.

And oh yeah, when he first met Teyla he totally flirted with her. Totally and why wouldn't he? It's just the look she gives him, like nice try Earth-boy.

[Doxymom]

Happy 4th to all who celebrate!

It's The Long Goodbye discussion day!

So, what do you all think?

Fic Challenge: write a brief story about the "he cares for you more than you know" moment. Here are the characters to tell us what they were thinking: Teyla, Weir OR Phoebus, Rodney, Caldwell, Thalan, then John. There are no wrong answers, just have fun with it.

Fic Challenge 2 What were Thalan/John and Teyla thinking when she caught him and stunned him?

Questions:

What do you think would have been different about this ep if Teyla had harbored Phoebus instead of Weir?

What plotholes or TSTL (too stupid to live) type things happened in this ep?

What would you have liked to see done differently?

What were your favorite and least favorite parts of the episode?

Do you think this episode advanced JT's relationship? Why or why not?

Anyone have any fic or graphic recommendations based on this episode?


Well, must go for now. I realize a lot of people may not be here this week due to Canada Day (sorry I forgot to wish our Canadian friends a happy Canada Day! Hope it was great!) and the 4th of July, but hey, we can discuss this ep tomorrow too along with the next one.

Doxymom

[Doxymom]

Hey, everyone, if you're interested in Teyla stories, check out the July 3rd SGA Newsletter. http://community.livejournal.com/sga_newsletter/

There are 16, 16!!, Teyla centered stories listed for LJ for that day. As near as I can figure, six are shippy and the rest are not. At least two are John/Teyla stories. I saw one listed as Teyla, Sheppard--which could be a friendship or Gen story with both in it.

Can you say, "Wow!" I suspect it's the Teyla ficathon that was going on on LJ that gets credit for this plethora of wonderful fic. :-) Be sure to thank the authors and the ficathon creators, if you get the chance.

I'll have to start reading all these tomorrow. Isn't this cool?

Doxymom

[Doxymom]

Found some more. This is the Teyla Ficathon Masterlist of stories. Happy reading and don't forget to drop the organizers a thank you for facilitating so much fic in a sadly underwritten category!

http://community.livejournal.com/teylafen/25700.html

Note that there are more listed here than in my last post. Some of these are different too as the last post's list also included that JT round robin I posted about a while ago. I think this list has more JT in it, too, but I'm not positive.

Feed the authors, please, and they may give us more fic! No, I didn't get a chance to write for this so it isn't a shameless plug.

Doxymom--whoo hoo! I just hit 500 posts. Never thought I'd get there.

[Sheylafan87]

[Cpt. Ritter]

What do you think would have been different about this ep if Teyla had harbored Phoebus instead of Weir?

This episode would've turned out differently... IMO maybe Shep would've fought more... but who would've been left to hunt them both down. Weir couldn't do what Teyla did in the episode. If they had done it that way... I think TPTB would've really changed the way the episode was structured.

[LoveConquers]

Found some more. This is the Teyla Ficathon Masterlist of stories. Happy reading and don't forget to drop the organizers a thank you for facilitating so much fic in a sadly underwritten category!

http://community.livejournal.com/teylafen/25700.html

Note that there are more listed here than in my last post. Some of these are different too as the last post's list also included that JT round robin I posted about a while ago. I think this list has more JT in it, too, but I'm not positive.

Feed the authors, please, and they may give us more fic! No, I didn't get a chance to write for this so it isn't a shameless plug.

Doxymom--whoo hoo! I just hit 500 posts. Never thought I'd get there.

Wow, congrats on 500! LOL! And thanks so much for the link to more stories!! I can never get enough.

Thank you!!
Steph

[LoveConquers]

These are great! I love that pic of John especially...that expression...*Shiver* LOL! Thank you!!

Steph

[Doxymom]

Sheylafan, excellent wps! Like Steph, I adore that pic of John. His expression is so intense.

Steph, thanks! You're welcome for the links. I love getting links to new stories, particularly when some are JT.

Doxymom

[Devine27]

What do you think would have been different about this ep if Teyla had harbored Phoebus instead of Weir?

Doxymom

Hhhhmmm, John and Teyla as Thalan and Phoebus. Okay, this is one that I can't pass up. The image that comes to mind is a somewhat extended version of the sparring session in Conversion. I could see Phoebus getting great pleasure at the thought of beating the crap out of Thalan (instead of just outright killing him), playing with his ego, taunting him about getting spanked by a woman. (Envision Vala head butting Daniel and then kissing it to make it better). The catch being that Thalan is more than up to the challenge, so the enemies are still evenly matched. I could see them crossing paths more often, having short scuffles that keep being interrupted, or either of them needing to retreat after receiving a harsh blow. For the times that they are apart, the radio chatter would still be taunting, but on a more personal level ( think lover scorned turned enemy ). On occasions where they come close to killing each other, I could see John/Teyla emerging and pleading or comforting each other and it distracting their opponent. But we would never know if what they said to each other was the truth or if the losing party was just playing with the other person's head. That would be the perfect episode: Lots of physical contact with the occasional kiss/near kiss/or feel up. Lots of confessions we would love to hear (of course they’ll blame Phoebus and Thalan afterwards) and very little of the other characters. Unless Ronon wants to take his shirt off……… sorry.