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**Cpt. Ritter** · 02 July 2006, 06:18 PM

C'est pas de problem Doxymom... Je comprende. I understand. Just be sure to leave me a big review when I finally finish it... (of course that may be awhile)

Doxy... I was also talking about Critical Mass... I don't think Shep was distracted in Grace... but he was all business. I believe Teyla was with her people in that episode.

And Teyla seems to have her share of clothes... later S2 showed a bunch. But look at poor Shep... he's been stuck in the same shirt almost every episode.

**4prettierships** · 02 July 2006, 08:35 PM

Teyla did seem to have more clothing choices in S2 than poor Sheppard. However it does seem that there are going to be some new clothing choices for him, from what I've seen from the promo pics!

**Cpt. Ritter** · 03 July 2006, 04:50 AM

Yep... most agreeably so. So today is The Tower the worst of the dreaded kirking episodes... but I shall point out several very shippy moments, BP and Annie are better at this.

Spoiler:

**Doxymom** · 03 July 2006, 06:16 AM

At first, I really didn't like this ep at all. The Tower is more like a parody and seemed to only be contrived to get them more drones.

Kirking...well, I have my own interpretation about that. I don't think what John does is anything like what Kirk did.

Capt, those were great shippy moments! I forgot all about them! Teyla sure did sound relieved to hear his voice again. She seemed to think about him a lot in this ep.

I loved the visuals in this ep. Teyla and John each looked wonderful. The colors and clarity of the screencaps that came out are great.

So, the big question is, given our belief that John and Teyla are attracted to each other, and care very much for each other...do you think he took Bimbo up on her offer? Why or why not?

If he did, do you think it changed anything between he and Teyla? If not, do you think *that* made him more loyal to Teyla or made him question himself as to why he didn't?

Doxymom

**Padme18** · 03 July 2006, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Doxymom

Capt, those were great shippy moments! I forgot all about them! Teyla sure did sound relieved to hear his voice again. She seemed to think about him a lot in this ep.

Doxymom

I aslo agree. They both seemed concered about the other. John was all alone in the tower and she was concerned for him, while he was concerned about her and the others.

As for the bimbo princess, he may or may not have taken her up on the offer. He seems to attract woman with ancient abilites or the gene. My theory is it's because they can sense he has the gene and that their children, if any, would also have the gene.

**green_eyed_lady** · 03 July 2006, 08:08 AM

Hey folks! I just found a site called spoilerfix.com....not sure how reliable it is, but I found it through one of the spoilers on this site, so I'm figuring it might be pretty reliable...anyways, here is something for "Sunday"

Spoiler:

Oh and for those of us in Canada who watch Atlantis on the movie network like me.......they finally schedueled season3......unfortunately we don't get it till August 14th.....

**Padme18** · 03 July 2006, 08:13 AM

I've been to spiolerfix for other shows, they seem reliable to me. Whatever they say usually happens.

**green_eyed_lady** · 03 July 2006, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Padme18

I've been to spiolerfix for other shows, they seem reliable to me. Whatever they say usually happens.

Oh okay!

Thanks Padme....wasn't too sure.

**bluealien** · 03 July 2006, 08:38 AM

The Tower was a pretty awful episode but for me it had nothing to do with the Kirking. I still don't really get what all the fuss is about over this. In the space of two years a couple of women flirted with him and he flirted with one or two others. The Tower babe practically threw herself at him and maybe he enjoyed a few kisses from her but I really don't think anything else happened and if it didn't it doesn't really bother me and he is unattached. Though hopefully Teyla will change that situation before too long.

Teyla did seem quite concerned for him when he was first taken to the Tower but they always seem to be concerned for each other.

**Gigajules** · 03 July 2006, 08:51 AM

First, a disclaimer. Just because I quoted this particular message doesn’t mean that the following is aimed at the person who posted. It’s a very general – and very long, pack a lunch – bit of observation.

Originally posted by Name redacted.

I hated that episode... way to much kirking, like you said

That term drives me absolutely bat$#!t. There isn't much similarity between what Kirk did and what happens to Shep. Kirk kind of manly manned his way around the universe doing the conquest thing (you'd think that the Prime Directive would include "don't jump the natives" or something), and was written (and overplayed) as a confident, heroic sort.

Shep - mostly thanks to JF - has a boatload of natural charisma. He's less...threatening, for lack of a better word. He's a nice guy, he smiles a lot, he flirts with everyone, and he doesn't check-out-my-heroic-manliness his way around. He's not an idiot, but he doesn't always know what he's doing and he seems to be faking it the best he can while hoping no one notices. It's endearing as hell.

He's also a guy who before coming to Atlantis spent the better part of a year (probably even longer than that) not being Mr. Popular at all, stuck in a place where the prospects were probably pretty minimal. Suddenly he's in a whole other galaxy playing space cowboy and good-looking alien women who either don't seem to know who cool he's really not (or think he's adorable anyway) are all over him. Personally, I'm glad that he doesn't put up a chaste and noble hand and say "oh I couldn't possibly" because that would make him a bit unbelievable and make me dislike him a whole lot more than all that flirting and snogging ever could.

To actually bring this whole huge chunk of blabber back on-topic…The results of the aforementioned charm and flirtation seem to depend on the other person. He was flirting like hell with Teyla when they first met, and while they seemed to be pretty fond of each other right from the start…hey, they were alone in a dark cave together and he didn’t make any moves. So. Very much not Kirk.

I wonder if Teyla ever watches his interaction with other people and looks back at the moment they met and wonders if she fell for something? Of course she knows him well enough now, I think, to know that even if that was the case back then, it isn’t anymore.

Whew.

**green_eyed_lady** · 03 July 2006, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by bluealien

Teyla did seem quite concerned for him when he was first taken to the Tower but they always seem to be concerned for each other.

Yeah...thats one of the most endearing things about this ship

**Doxymom** · 03 July 2006, 09:06 AM

Hi!

I just uploaded a finished Round Robin from the JohnandTeyla fic group to the group's lj. It's PG-13, one long part and written by a bunch of authors on the list. Enjoy!

http://community.livejournal.com/sga...40.html#cutid1

Doxymom

**green_eyed_lady** · 03 July 2006, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Gigajules

First, a disclaimer. Just because I quoted this particular message doesn’t mean that the following is aimed at the person who posted. It’s a very general – and very long, pack a lunch – bit of observation.

That term drives me absolutely bat$#!t. There isn't much similarity between what Kirk did and what happens to Shep. Kirk kind of manly manned his way around the universe doing the conquest thing (you'd think that the Prime Directive would include "don't jump the natives" or something), and was written (and overplayed) as a confident, heroic sort.

Shep - mostly thanks to JF - has a boatload of natural charisma. He's less...threatening, for lack of a better word. He's a nice guy, he smiles a lot, he flirts with everyone, and he doesn't check-out-my-heroic-manliness his way around. He's not an idiot, but he doesn't always know what he's doing and he seems to be faking it the best he can while hoping no one notices. It's endearing as hell.

He's also a guy who before coming to Atlantis spent the better part of a year (probably even longer than that) not being Mr. Popular at all, stuck in a place where the prospects were probably pretty minimal. Suddenly he's in a whole other galaxy playing space cowboy and good-looking alien women who either don't seem to know who cool he's really not (or think he's adorable anyway) are all over him. Personally, I'm glad that he doesn't put up a chaste and noble hand and say "oh I couldn't possibly" because that would make him a bit unbelievable and make me dislike him a whole lot more than all that flirting and snogging ever could.

To actually bring this whole huge chunk of blabber back on-topic…The results of the aforementioned charm and flirtation seem to depend on the other person. He was flirting like hell with Teyla when they first met, and while they seemed to be pretty fond of each other right from the start…hey, they were alone in a dark cave together and he didn’t make any moves. So. Very much not Kirk.

I wonder if Teyla ever watches his interaction with other people and looks back at the moment they met and wonders if she fell for something? Of course she knows him well enough now, I think, to know that even if that was the case back then, it isn’t anymore.

Whew.

Well..... as Atlantis is really the only sci-fi show I watch

*bows head in shame* I can't really comment too much on your Kirk and Shep comparrisons. However, you do have an excellent point about his flirting with alien chicks. Shep was on earth, for lack of a better word, a loner. Now all of a sudden, he's made something of himself. He's in charge of a military base, he has friends who care about him, and beautiful women are all over him. So...your perfectly right, it is completely understandable why he does what he does.

**bluealien** · 03 July 2006, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Gigajules

First, a disclaimer. Just because I quoted this particular message doesn’t mean that the following is aimed at the person who posted. It’s a very general – and very long, pack a lunch – bit of observation.

That term drives me absolutely bat$#!t. There isn't much similarity between what Kirk did and what happens to Shep. Kirk kind of manly manned his way around the universe doing the conquest thing (you'd think that the Prime Directive would include "don't jump the natives" or something), and was written (and overplayed) as a confident, heroic sort.

Shep - mostly thanks to JF - has a boatload of natural charisma. He's less...threatening, for lack of a better word. He's a nice guy, he smiles a lot, he flirts with everyone, and he doesn't check-out-my-heroic-manliness his way around. He's not an idiot, but he doesn't always know what he's doing and he seems to be faking it the best he can while hoping no one notices. It's endearing as hell.

He's also a guy who before coming to Atlantis spent the better part of a year (probably even longer than that) not being Mr. Popular at all, stuck in a place where the prospects were probably pretty minimal. Suddenly he's in a whole other galaxy playing space cowboy and good-looking alien women who either don't seem to know who cool he's really not (or think he's adorable anyway) are all over him. Personally, I'm glad that he doesn't put up a chaste and noble hand and say "oh I couldn't possibly" because that would make him a bit unbelievable and make me dislike him a whole lot more than all that flirting and snogging ever could.

To actually bring this whole huge chunk of blabber back on-topic…The results of the aforementioned charm and flirtation seem to depend on the other person. He was flirting like hell with Teyla when they first met, and while they seemed to be pretty fond of each other right from the start…hey, they were alone in a dark cave together and he didn’t make any moves. So. Very much not Kirk.

I wonder if Teyla ever watches his interaction with other people and looks back at the moment they met and wonders if she fell for something? Of course she knows him well enough now, I think, to know that even if that was the case back then, it isn’t anymore.

Whew.

Well said.

Sheppards nature is to flirt and his easy going laid back manner attract people to him. So as I said if he enjoys some of this attention then good for him.

He uses his charm and easy going nature to ease first contact situations and it can sometimes be interpreted as flirting. He does this with Elizabeth when he wants to get his own way and his first contact with Teyla could be construed as flirting.

Chaya was genuinally attracted to him and he had been with Teer for 6 months before they did the horizontal tango - well we assume they did. The Tower babe was after his gene and who could blame her. Let Shepp play the field a little before he realises that Teyla is the only woman for him, and they settle down and live happily ever after.

**Doxymom** · 03 July 2006, 09:36 AM

I agree about the "kirking" not really being an apt term. Kirk "planned" his moves for specific reasons--to distract captors, to gain the trust of people who could help them, yadda yadda--and John just sort of gets jumped for his natural charm.

I acutally read a wonderful essay detailing all this on LJ but have lost the link to it. Curses! I want to read it again.

Anyway, I asked the question because <doxy adjust halo and whistles, looking innocent> I knew it would probably get people talking.

And it did.

I think that Teyla gave John a clue as to how she views these women in Sanctuary when she told him they were both adults and he could go with Chaya if he wanted to--but then definitely hinted that if he could do it so could she.

Personally, I don't think John did anything more than kiss the Bimbo in Tower, particularly since he realized she only wanted to get pregnant or married to *anyone* with the gene.

He seems more of a romantic than that to me. I think he really wants to marry for love and is willing to wait until he finds that.

That said, I also agree that he'd been alone in Pegasus for a long, long time and only had a handful of women come-on to him. We only know for certain that he accepted ONE offer. And, before Pegasus, he was stuck in Antarctica, with a very limited number of free women, for a long long time. Having been AF and been stuck on isolated bases I can tell you that normally the number of men FAR outweighs the number of women--giving the women, in essence, the ability to pick and choose whomever they want to date. John seems like he doesn't have the best luck with the women HE wants, so it's possible he didn't get picked often at McMurdo.

So it's theoretically possible that he hadn't been laid in a year or more before going to Pegasus, and that by the time Tier came along, it could have been three years or so.

In my book, if the guy gets a few kisses in three years, that's okay.

I also think he's probably in love with Teyla and either doesn't realize it, is supressing the feelings because he's afraid of abandonment, or because he's afraid of rejection. Teyla's not the most open person. Most of her emotions/physical tells are so subtle that they're very open to interpretation. He may just now be able to figure out most of them and may not even know how she feels about him.

Add in that she seems to fear abandonment too, and possibly fear loss of control, and it makes it all the more likely that even if they do care deeply for each other, neither will readily admit it for fear the feelings aren't returned.

Whew! Geuss I went on a long time too!

Anyway, The Tower. I don't think he stayed with Bimbo. I think he spent a lot of the ep worried about his team and Teyla, and then trying to get the drones. I think Teyla, if she found out about Bimbo, particularly if he told her the part about 'I get to be ruler if we're married' would see the whole situation for what it was--Bimbo using John to try and stay in power and stay alive. It was completely possible that if her brother took over he'd have her killed and even if Baldy took over, if she didn't please him, HE could have her killed. The only gaurantee for her to live was to be ruler herself--and that's where John fit in.

Being a leader, I think Teyla would see it if John gave her all the details, and she wouldn't hold it against him.

Sorry I went on so long! I normally don't talk this much.

Doxymom

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