Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[GateByte]

One of the things that makes me cringe when I see TLC these days is the wardrobe.... can you imagin Dr. Weir sending off a team on a dangerous offworld mission wearing a hoody sweet shirt? Or meeting an alien delegation in a brown fringe skirt?

No, now that I could definitely not picture. Just imagine the looks she'd get from .. well everyone if she did. Though the 38min ensemble she was wearing isn't particularly one of my favourites. I can't not watch that episode without thinking that there must have been something better they could have put her in than that weird sheer top and shiny pants.

But she does look much better when talking to Shep about the whole 'what were you going to say' bit. Still wonder what it was he was going to tell her. But that was the moment that made my sister latch onto Sparky. She was like 'he was so going to say he liked her'. I would like to think that's what he was going to say, but I think it was just too early in the series for anything of that sort.

EDIT: And definitely Erised the evil!Lizzie jacket is awesome!

[gwenhwyfar]

Oh yes, me too. I could watch the ending over and over again and I would squee everytime!

I don't remember the ending!! I guess it's a good thing I'm gonna rewatch it in twenty minutes.

[Major Fischer]

Ohhh 38 Minutes clothing was bbbbbaadd.. And even when she got out of the puke colored sheer top and shinny pants... when the entire cast came to visit John, they all looked like they were about to go clubbing.

As for what he was about to say... I don't think they had anything in particular in mind when they wrote it. It was a "let the fans fill in the blank". It was far too early in the series for it to be that he liked her or for him to confess undying love. If some writer or producer tried to tell me that today I'd think they were lying. It's a convention of television that when someone thinks they are going to die, but aren't, they always have some last message for their friends.

I do wonder though, if that was a reshot scene. Still.

[Luz]

Since we're on the subject of 38 minutes, i giggle when i watch the last scene when they visit him, it looks like Sheppard is tickling Weir's tummy with his foot .

[Major Fischer]

Since we're on the subject of 38 minutes, i giggle when i watch the last scene when they visit him, it looks like Sheppard is tickling Weir's tummy with his foot .

He's doing that because he's jealous. Clearly they are all about to go to the grand opening of the Ancient Discotech they've found on the south pier.

[Luz]

He's doing that because he's jealous. Clearly they are all about to go to the grand opening of the Ancient Discotech they've found on the south pier.

Weir packed quite the wardrobe didn't she?, i liked the grey shirt though, it seemed like a homage to Star Trek.
The girls looked great, must have been a success on the dance floor .

Ticklish much? .

[Major Fischer]

Weir packed quite the wardrobe didn't she?, i liked the grey shirt though, it seemed like a homage to Star Trek.
The girls looked great, must have been a success on the dance floor .

She had the tardis back pack, no wonder she looked like she was going to fall over everytime she picked that up in Rising. But what I want to know is... where did Teyla get tht top?

It looks like the actors clothes... like they were about to leave the set and the producers said "hey can we get just one more scene from you guys?

[Rubicon]

where did Teyla get tht top?

Her wardrobe, before the Atlantis Laundry Expedition Team shrunk all her shirts!!

[Bama]

I agree. I think one of the interesting differences between SG1 and SGA is that in SG1 they came back to Cheyenne Mtn after every mission. So there was this constant juxtaposition (cool word, huh? ) between other worlds, where the rules aren't a given, and Earth, where to a certain extent the rules are a given.

EDIT: Does that make any sense at all?

Yes, and it's an excellent point! I hadn't really thought about it in that way before. NOT having authority around them all of the time does allow them to 'be themselves' with each other constantly and that is perhaps one reason why Elizabeth and John's progression does feel so very natural and smooth to us all. There's very little of this herky-jerky stuff like you get when there's some kind of authority hanging over your head. I don't think John or Elizabeth really think about whether they 'should' say something or shouldn't to the other because the only critics of them are them. They've been able to develop more naturally as a male/female dynamic should even in the midst of their command positions because they are who is in charge. Compare that to how so many other sci-fi/military type ships are handled and it's quite different. Now, that may be heading for a change with Elizabeth's decisions being questioned by MC. It will be interesting to see how that questioning of her authority by an 'outside source' affects the continued development of the 'thing' between John and Elizabeth.

[xfkirsten]

Ohhh 38 Minutes clothing was bbbbbaadd.. And even when she got out of the puke colored sheer top and shinny pants... when the entire cast came to visit John, they all looked like they were about to go clubbing.

Ooooooooh, yes, it was!

Maybe they were... they have to get their entertainment in the Pegasus Galaxy somehow! Hooking up expedition members' mp3 players into an Ancient soundsystem, breaking out some homemade brew...

[Bama]

Now this is an interesting topic. There are regulations against John having a relationship with Teyla (or any other female, military or civilian, under his command), but from what I can tell... there aren't any that prevent John and Elizabeth from having a relationship.

The person guilty of fraternization is the superior officer. As Elizabeth is a civilian than she can't be guilty of breaking the uniform code of military justice. This is a cork of the fact that having a civilian in command of military personnel is near unheard of.

That doesn't change that it's highly unprofessional, but that's an ethical not a legal question.

What I love about a ship like the way this one is shaping up MF is that while I agree that it's 'unprofessional' on the surface that the feelings are real and growing between them anyway -against their will and professional wisdom-but still growing nonetheless. Those feelings offer a point of powerlessness for each of them that is so very interesting and intriguing for each of them to deal with as characters in their respective positions.

The fantastic glimpses we get like in The Storm/Eye , Siege 2/3 or Conversion that show just the merest hint to both the audience and the characters of that emotional person to person growing feelings element that they can't quite erase or forget or ignore is delicious.

I also like how this one is shaping up to be a ship that others are recognizing for what it is becoming and they are seeing grow and develop before the two involved are. When others realize what they see between Shep and Weir are real and honest emotions; when they look and see a man and a woman that make each other stronger and whole together rather than apart, they'll encourage and support the union rather than see it as something threatening or weakening. Love between two people always rises to the top and if it's right and there's nothing cheap about it, people will respect it and support it for the larger sum of what it offers positively rather than the smaller points of how it might detract . I think that support is what we'll eventually see with this ship in Atlantis as the city becomes more self-supporting, self-governing and independent over time.

[Ronnikins]

What I love about a ship like the way this one is shaping up MF is that while I agree that it's 'unprofessional' on the surface that the feelings are real and growing between them anyway -against their will and professional wisdom-but still growing nonetheless. Those feelings offer a point of powerlessness for each of them that is so very interesting and intriguing for each of them to deal with as characters in their respective positions.

It's the conflict between professional and personal that I find so intriguing. I enjoy the fact that they have not acknowledge these growing feelings to themselves, let alone to each other, so we get to go on the journey with them in discovering this awareness.
Recently, I watched a SG1 episode "Windows of Opportunity" (where Jack and Teal'c are caught in a time loop) and was thinking what certain SGA members would do if they knew there were no consequences for their actions after a few hours. Let me tell you, my active little mind came up with most interesting scenarios. The most innocuous was Shep finishing War and Peace.

The fantastic glimpses we get like in The Storm/Eye , Siege 2/3 or Conversion that show just the merest hint to both the audience and the characters of that emotional person to person growing feelings element that they can't quite erase or forget or ignore is delicious.

I also like how this one is shaping up to be a ship that others are recognizing for what it is becoming and they are seeing grow and develop before the two involved are. When others realize what they see between Shep and Weir are real and honest emotions; when they look and see a man and a woman that make each other stronger and whole together rather than apart, they'll encourage and support the union rather than see it as something threatening or weakening. Love between two people always rises to the top and if it's right and there's nothing cheap about it, people will respect it and support it for the larger sum of what it offers positively rather than the smaller points of how it might detract . I think that support is what we'll eventually see with this ship in Atlantis as the city becomes more self-supporting, self-governing and independent over time.

The timing of how this ship is evolving is all important. We know the writers are not having ship in mind when they pen episodes but to have it in the back of their minds as sub-contextual will help a lot in how this develops (if it develops-sorry, temporary pessimism popped up).
I imagine there will be a majority support for the ship in Atlantis by fellow members, a few powerful supporters back on earth, and, hopefully, a general acceptance by SGA viewers. They would have been given enough time to see it develop on the screen naturally without being hit by painful anvils.

[Chrysalis]

I think Torri gets most of the credit, even more than the writers do, for pulling her character out of that cess pool of hate. The feelings changed right around the middle of the season when she started doing a lot of conventions. People came back from conventions raving about how nice and interesting she was... it was a very classy thing.

I'm so impressed with Torri. She's a very strong person, going by the sorts of things I've seen and heard from when she first started on the show. I'm sure some of the current aggression is related to the shipper war.

Anyway, regardless of that, Torri was brave enough to start doing cons. And that was a brave move for someone who was so affected by the negative comments that she was scared away from the internet. She comes across as a warm, funny, girly and just really, really sweet person.

I don't know what people ever found to dislike in Weir, but when you meet Torri and see what she's like, there's no way you could ever look at Weir and not like her as well.

The cons seem to be rough for a lot of them. Michael Shanks apparently being groped?? Poor Joe getting extremely inappropriate comments from obsessive fangirls?? I'm impressed with all of them for the restraint they show in some of those situations.

[Trialia]

Oh no, I invented mints, you can't fool me. And also alas, I don't swing that way.. now Elizabeth *waggles eyebrows*

O_O! No! Mine! *locks Lizzie in her bedroom with her and swallows the key*

[Trialia]

I'm so impressed with Torri. She's a very strong person, going by the sorts of things I've seen and heard from when she first started on the show. I'm sure some of the current aggression is related to the shipper war.

Anyway, regardless of that, Torri was brave enough to start doing cons. And that was a brave move for someone who was so affected by the negative comments that she was scared away from the internet. She comes across as a warm, funny, girly and just really, really sweet person.

I don't know what people ever found to dislike in Weir, but when you meet Torri and see what she's like, there's no way you could ever look at Weir and not like her as well.

The cons seem to be rough for a lot of them. Michael Shanks apparently being groped?? Poor Joe getting extremely inappropriate comments from obsessive fangirls?? I'm impressed with all of them for the restraint they show in some of those situations.

Agreed. Torri was saying something at some point about that the way the fans were at the conventions as opposed to the general mood of the online fandom she'd encountered at the time brought a good change in her confidence, and also feeling a little guilty for enjoying the conventions and all the fangirling of Elizabeth so much when she does more cons... I don't even know if that sentence came out coherently, but there you are.

She's a lovely person, and I think it takes seeing her as herself for some people to learn to like Weir.