Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

I thinks this is likely more to do with needing to get the character into certain scenes than some planned ship motivation. They need Sheppard to be present for those conversations even if he doesn't have a terribly good reason for being there.

Of that I'm sure I doubt TPTB even gave a thought to this ship until late season 1, possibly even later.

When watching, I picked up on the the lack of need for him to be present but never associated it with him luffing Elizabeth. Fandom has made me want to explore it further (that's where fic comes in handy ) even when i know that a lot of human behaviour is random and without reasoning. I've done many a thing myself 'just because' but other's have opinionated what they percieved to have motivated me.

[mirafemina]

I don't see lamp-posts without my glasses but it doesn't mean they're not there Again, it's about how much attention you're paying and I think that fandom schools you to pay more attention.

Using The Long Goodbye as an example:

As a casual viewer I would see it as a fun, action-packed episode.

As a regular viewer I would see it as a fun, action-packed episode which also looked into the various friendships.

As a fandom viewer I would see it as a fun, action-packed episode which also looked into the various friendships, aswell as being shippy for multiple characters, with technically inaccuraties

V true. Fandom is a funny thing. It also makes me think of the whole tree falling over in the wood with no one around thing (does it make a sound?) - if the internet weren't here to foster ships and fandom, would we all be so invested in these characters and how storylines are developed? Before I started posting on here my sister was my SG talking buddy, but there's only so many different opinions you can get from someone who's related to you.

Thank god for the universal appeal of sci-fi!

[SallyLizzie]

if the internet weren't here to foster ships and fandom, would we all be so invested in these characters and how storylines are developed?

Great question!

It's funny bc I watched SG1 without a fandom and became heavily invested in SJ. I found the fandom and over the last year my feelings have changed to indifference - if not a little tired of this yoyo. Yet when I go back and watch it, I love it again.

I conversed in the Anti-SW at one time just to see if I could see where they were coming from (something that shouldn't be done now, and probably shouldn't have been done then). I was given some very good points and it very nearly turned me noromo.

So I think fandom can work either way.

I'm sure there's a way to relate this to JohnElizabeth but as I'm too lazy tired to try, I shall post a pic instead

[Major Fischer]

if the internet weren't here to foster ships and fandom, would we all be so invested in these characters and how storylines are developed?

I'm not sure I'd be willing to say the internet creats ships where there might not have been ones, but I certainly think it speeds up the ability of TPTB to gage how people are reacting to their ships, thus they don't have to go as deeply down dead ends as they might have before the mid-late 1990s

[Erised]

I think internet creates ships that are not necessarily intended or are not as obvious. Sparky wasn't written in the beginning, but we saw it because of great chemestry between the characters. Other ships, like Liz/Lorne, I would never even think of liking that pair if I wasn't at GW. Same goes for every other ship that pairs up Liz with anyone else but Sheppard . So yeah, IMO some ships are created by fandom, and I'm sure people who do ship Liz with anyone else will disagree with me, but it's just how I see Atlantis. No disrespect intended

[Southern Red]

Good points from everyone about fandom. Certainly lots to think about. I saw the ship long before I came into the fandom. In fact that was my reason for doing so. I can't imagine why anyone would want a ship that you have to become aware of by listening to the opinions of others.

I would love to have the strength to resist spoilers, but that's not likely to happen. Anyway, Sparky is still the #1 ship for me.

[Trialia]

I saw Sparky before I moved onto the proper fandom... I started watching the show around 38 Minutes and by The Eye, I was dyed-in-the-ship-wool so to speak. That's why I came into the fandom... to see if I could find like-minded people and make sure I wasn't imagining things.

[eyecandylovr]

I saw Sparky before I moved onto the proper fandom... I started watching the show around 38 Minutes and by The Eye, I was dyed-in-the-ship-wool so to speak. That's why I came into the fandom... to see if I could find like-minded people and make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Me too! Me too! I checked this thread out to make sure I wasn't imagining things too.
This is the first fandom I've ever been involved in. Never read fanfic in my life before I started lurking here. Not the hugest sci-fi fan here either (only watched TNG/Voyager/XF). So this is a whole new thing for me. In fact, I hesitate to admit that the only reason I started watching SG-1 and SGA was because I had surgery last year, was stuck in bed for 3 weeks, and my sister gave me S1 of both SG1 and SGA to pass the time. But I was shipping Sparky before I even got back to work, even though I had no idea what "shipping" was. It has always been noticeable to me.
BTW, thanks all y'all here for making this thread such a nice place to visit....
And I'm with Michael: Sparky rules!!!

[mentalmichael]

And I'm with Michael: Sparky rules!!!

I think that's probably pretty much unanimous round here!

Just got back from watching TLG with my sis, and she said something which really interested me (well, after her comment about Sheppard + Weir going "hardcore" which my twisted mind found rather amusing!). She commented on how good the direction was, and watching it again I agree. We all talk about how good the writing was in this or that episode (Carl Binder especially), but the directors get a lot less credit. That ep really upped the excitment through use of camera movement etc.

[Erised]

I think that's probably pretty much unanimous round here!

Just got back from watching TLG with my sis, and she said something which really interested me (well, after her comment about Sheppard + Weir going "hardcore" which my twisted mind found rather amusing!). She commented on how good the direction was, and watching it again I agree. We all talk about how good the writing was in this or that episode (Carl Binder especially), but the directors get a lot less credit. That ep really upped the excitment through use of camera movement etc.

I loved the camera movements! My favorite was when they were "flying" over the city, and also when they were going from like Liz -> Sheppard -> Teyla. (I think you know what I'm talking about .)
Heh, I remember how excited we all were about TLG. But now, I don't know I think Siege III had a lot better sparky moments. They were themselves there . TLG just gave us shippers on-screen fantasy, without really ruining the show with a ship and tension that would have happened if they were themselves.

[mentalmichael]

I loved the camera movements! My favorite was when they were "flying" over the city, and also when they were going from like Liz -> Sheppard -> Teyla. (I think you know what I'm talking about .)
Heh, I remember how excited we all were about TLG. But now, I don't know I think Siege III had a lot better sparky moments. They were themselves there . TLG just gave us shippers on-screen fantasy, without really ruining the show with a ship and tension that would have happened if they were themselves.

Oh yeah, no question that Seige 3 was.... more honest, if that's the right word, about our ship. That was them, open and honest for one brief second. TLG was (as most of us know), a very different situation, although the end still slays me every time.

[Major Fischer]

TLG was a way for TPTB to have their cake and eat it too. It was a bone to throw to shippers while letting everyone else say "well they weren't themselves." It's an old, worn, and tired tool from their bag of tricks IMO.

[Ronnikins]

I was much more relaxed before I got involved here. I could just enjoy the show without worrying about what would happen. Sometimes I think that was a much better plan, but I do enjoy the interaction here. Too bad moderation is not in my vocabulary. And before I came here I thought a ship was a boat.

Ha! That's why I didn't touch these threads for a while. I thought these were names for spaceships. Duh!

I have re-iterated before that I don't normally ship but I do acknowledge potentially cute couples on the screen. I have watched Sg1 and TXF from their inception and never once did I wanted to find out more than what I saw on the screen.
It's only by happenstance I viewed Seige 2 and I do not like cliffhangers. This is how I latched on to GW (for the spoilers). I then wondered about about the nature of the relationship between Shep and Weir because those stares at the end were really quite dramatic. I truly thought they had something going on.
Long story short, I finally landed in this thread and found "meeting of the minds" , got an impression of the whole "Sparky" business then I was a bit disappointed when I finally saw S1 in its entirety and how it really was in the eye of the beholder, it was that subtle. In hindsight, I'm prefering it this way. I would hate to have a ship thrown at my face.
This is how fandom has coloured my judgement of a ship. Now I find myself looking for the "little moments" where I never used to before.
In regards to characterisation. Sheppard has disappointed me a bit this season. This probably can be blamed on all those "infamous" episodes being lumped together in the second half of S2. I would have expected a bit more maturity for a person of his responsibilities. That said, I really have nothing against his "kirking" (he is unattached) just not so blatant please. What is unfair is that they give romantic moments for the male members of the expedition but not for the females. I'm not saying Liz and Teyla have to behave like hOrs but they must feel the need for male companionship too.
Elizabeth's (and Teyla's) characterisation have improved dramatically and for that I'm glad.


*damn, did promise to limit myself to a little post*

[Major Fischer]

*damn, did promise to limit myself to a little post*

I say that all the time. It never works.

[SGLAB]

TLG was a way for TPTB to have their cake and eat it too. It was a bone to throw to shippers while letting everyone else say "well they weren't themselves." It's an old, worn, and tired tool from their bag of tricks IMO.

I agree. And if I wasn't interested in this pair I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and thought "moving on." Which was my response to J/S when they pulled these kinds of moves.

And talking of fandom earlier getting involved in fandom for sg-1 had me going from indifference before fandom to s/j to serious dislike possibly bordering on hate.