Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[TheLadyMore]

Hello Sparkies just comming back from a day of being whumped with food poisoning. Sounds like a good idea for a Sparky fic though Lizzie taking Care of a Sick John.

[SMB_BOOKS]

J (thinking to himself) - I wonder if she knows how I really feel? Would it screw things up if I told her?

E (thinking to herself) - I wish he would just make the first move.


And, more OT for "Game of Thrones"

Spoiler:

I've only read the first book. For me, it was definitely slow going at first. It took me a while to get used to his writing style and frankly, to remember who all the characters were and how they related to each other, LOL.

But it picked up considerably for me by the end. I guess what I liked about it is that is was really different from what I expected it might be. Way more of a historical, political, grabbing for power thing, than a story with a lot of fantastical elements in it. The fantastical stuff is there, but it's muted and in the background. I was surprised I still liked it.

I liked it enough to go on with the other books. I haven't bought them yet, but I plan to.

I'll have to try and catch the series at some point as well.

Falcon - thanks for your feedback on how the series opener went - good to hear it went well!

[TheLadyMore]

Have they realized their mistake on CM? The fact that the person who replaced JJ looks almost exactly like her only younger must have been a real slap in the face to her fans. Bringing her back briefly only made me miss her more. The new girl is okay, but I don't see why they made the change.

Yup AJ Cook stated on her twitter that CBS has asked her to return she has signed a two year contract! We should see JJ in the season Finale and shall be perminantly on the show starting next season.

[ShipperWriter]

Ugh ... I have writer's block ...

[JT-2]

Ugh ... I have writer's block ...

Here's a bunny
baby%20rabbit.jpg

[Southern Red]

Hello Sparkies just comming back from a day of being whumped with food poisoning. Sounds like a good idea for a Sparky fic though Lizzie taking Care of a Sick John.

Oooh, not good. Not good at all. Feel better soon.

Yup AJ Cook stated on her twitter that CBS has asked her to return she has signed a two year contract! We should see JJ in the season Finale and shall be perminantly on the show starting next season.

\0/ Whatta ya know? There are writers that listen.

[Scary Kitty]

Ow, TLM, feel better soon! *sends mild broth and crackers for the tender tummy*

And for those of you on Stargate!Ren watch, Part 1 of the newest story, "With Fire and Sword," has just been posted. Gird your loins, Ren fans, because this one will be posted in a whopping eight parts, and it looks to be Ren's wildest roller coaster ride yet!

[JT-2]

Ow, TLM, feel better soon! *sends mild broth and crackers for the tender tummy*

And for those of you on Stargate!Ren watch, Part 1 of the newest story, "With Fire and Sword," has just been posted. Gird your loins, Ren fans, because this one will be posted in a whopping eight parts, and it looks to be Ren's wildest roller coaster ride yet!

Ditto to both points. I hope you feel better soon, TLM.

And second - REN FIC!!!! And a certain character is introduced and it kicks major ass. Wheeeeeeeeeee!! I'm never gonna fall asleep now. Bouncy, bouncy, bouncy!

[Scary Kitty]

Ditto to both points. I hope you feel better soon, TLM.

And second - REN FIC!!!! And a certain character is introduced and it kicks major ass. Wheeeeeeeeeee!! I'm never gonna fall asleep now. Bouncy, bouncy, bouncy!

Totally bouncy! Squee, the gang's all here at last!

I swear, with the threat now hanging over Our Heroes' heads, the wait for each of the next seven parts is going to be torture.

[TheLadyMore]

Thanks guys yr sweet

[gateraid]

Have they realized their mistake on CM? The fact that the person who replaced JJ looks almost exactly like her only younger must have been a real slap in the face to her fans. Bringing her back briefly only made me miss her more. The new girl is okay, but I don't see why they made the change.



Personally, I think they should have had everything that happened from Sunday on be an AU. I can see Carson waking up from a dream. He's back in the infirmary. Everything is fine and he's hoping to go fishing with Rodney. Now let's go back and do it right.

Hmmm, this is a good idea. Odd that both shows could've ended after fishing.

It hates you. Do you check the little box on the right and then hit "reply to thread"? If so, I'm left clueless.

Is that what you're supposed to do? I fail at GW related things.

ITA with your assessment of S4. Judging from Doppelganger, which was filmed before they found out RL was pregnant, I'd say that ship was on track to happen. But things changed.

I found it to be a bit silly. IF they were going down that path, why on Earth didn't Teyla actually say it was Shep in Sunday? That would've made it a lot easier for them. Having Ronon say "I always thought you two would hook up" then later suddenly know all about Kanaan was a bit contradictory.

Have you read Rachel's homepage? I'm not sure if it's a typo, but it implies that she told them before they started filming s4. This is at odds with everything else I've read on the subject.

I'm not sure how I feel about the evil Weir idea. It would have been fun to watch but I think in the long run would only have added fuel to the fire of the Weir haters. I don't remember how I felt at the time but I think I may have suspected they would end it with John having to kill her. That I would not want to have seen.

No, I stand by my belief that we have nothing to regret on the ship side. It was never going to happen for real and we got the very best reaction out of John we could have hoped for thanks to Joe's insistence on adding emotion to John's character. We never had to witness him shipped with anybody else and never had to see her character destroyed more than it already was. Fanfic can fill in the blanks.

Don't forget to vote on Best Kiss.

Part of my reservation was that if they went down that path, then logically Weir couldn't have come back to Atlantis. For one thing, they were hardly going to 'reduce' Torri for a season, then bring her back fulltime. You're right, what we got was the best we could really hope for, even if it wasn't completely satisfying.

*LOL* Not everyone who married their cousin ended up with genetically abnormal children! Just that over the course of generations the inbreeding led to more genetic abnormalities. The rumors of hunchbacks, episodes of dwarfism, mentally unstable members--that was all supposedly due to many noble families trying to keep the bloodlines 'pure.' See Poe's Fall of the House of Usher for a Gothic take on it.

I understood it to be that cousins marrying each other wasn't illegal because genetic defects were not passed on between cousins, but if further interbreeding continued, it was pretty much a certainty.

I agree with SR about it ending about as best as we could get, considering the circumstances. Honestly, we have one of the best arguments for 'ship' even if it's star-crossed, courtesy John's reactions (and Michelle Morgan's last lingering look at him) in GITM.

I don't have the reservations about Evil!Weir, but I understand them. I remember a lot of people, when we didn't know Torri's fate, being very anti the idea of her going bad and some of the campaign to save her was centered on bringing her back exactly as she was. I wasn't that die-hard--I just wanted her back, no matter how it occurred.

I think I would have enjoyed the angst of John trying to find a way to save/regain her. Not even these PTB would have had him kill her, I think; they copped out twice in having anyone take responsibility for Elizabeth's demise--her ordering him to go and leave her in LL and then having her make the decision to go through the space gate in GITM. Both times no blame was to be laid on anyone's head. /copout

I guess it's kind of useless to speculate about Evil!Weir because such a story would have required a much larger role for Torri and so wouldn't have come about with the reality of the situation being what it was. They would have had to plan for it and that makes it hard for me to separate that from what they really did. I just regret that they had potential to do something different and didn't even consider it.

I look at it as them thinking that they got rid of Torri/Weir to improve ratings (as well as bringing Amanda/Carter over), so increasing her screentime after the fact would've been crazy to them. A pity really, they could've had the best of both worlds - bringing the SG-1 fans in, as well as having the Weir fans tune in for her eps.

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!



Shorter season? They had already shortened the seasons when they started running SGA alongside SG-1, starting with Season 8. Did you mean when they got the cancellation notice for SG-1? I think they didn't get that until after the episode in question had been filmed.

Series, I meant series I thought they got the notice much later too, but I figured they must've had some idea prior to that.

TPTW: S10 is going awesome! We'll be back next year, right?
Studio: Um, we'll call you

I seem to recall Martin Gero (who wrote FS) having the same thought, that Weir would only be seriously injured, but that she'd be okay and returning to her job by the end of the S4 premiere.

Ditto on that. I think he talked about it in the Adrift commentary.

Agreed. I just wanted her back too, and I do think an "evil Weir" scenario, if done right, could have been very compelling and given both the cast and the fans the kind of meaty, character-driven storyline we'd all been craving.

If done right is key, which was another factor in my concern over the idea. TPTW were great at episodical character moments, not so much with the arcs.

Hello Sparkies just comming back from a day of being whumped with food poisoning. Sounds like a good idea for a Sparky fic though Lizzie taking Care of a Sick John.

I hope it wasn't as explosive as it sounds

[Southern Red]

I found it to be a bit silly. IF they were going down that path, why on Earth didn't Teyla actually say it was Shep in Sunday? That would've made it a lot easier for them. Having Ronon say "I always thought you two would hook up" then later suddenly know all about Kanaan was a bit contradictory.

Which understandably leads to some of the frustration of some fans. Extreme contradiction seemed to be their theme. There must have been a sign up in the writers' room saying "How Can We Confuse the Fans Today?"

Have you read Rachel's homepage? I'm not sure if it's a typo, but it implies that she told them before they started filming s4. This is at odds with everything else I've read on the subject.

Really? Hmm? I thought JM said they didn't find out until well into the planning for S4 and after Doppelganger which was an RCC project that was filmed first. Maybe they were afraid to tell Cooper. LOL Then if we go by that assumption, some of the stuff in Doppelganger wasn't intended to be shippy. Huh.

We need clarification. Where's FH? She's our expert on all things Teyla.

I understood it to be that cousins marrying each other wasn't illegal because genetic defects were not passed on between cousins, but if further interbreeding continued, it was pretty much a certainty.

I'd say it wasn't illegal early on because they didn't know about genetics. Later, I think it only applies to first cousins. And remember that in ancient times it was customary for siblings to marry. Ancient Egypt for example. In those days when a child was born different they sometimes thought it was cursed in some way and killed it. It's only in modern times that we have discovered why certain traits are passed down from our parents.

I look at it as them thinking that they got rid of Torri/Weir to improve ratings (as well as bringing Amanda/Carter over), so increasing her screentime after the fact would've been crazy to them. A pity really, they could've had the best of both worlds - bringing the SG-1 fans in, as well as having the Weir fans tune in for her eps.

Good judgment was never their strong suit. They thought all the SG-1 fans would flock over to see AT. Didn't happen. Especially since they wrote her OOC. And they underestimated the number of Weir fans, but even to this day they would never admit their mistake.

[Eri13]

Hmmm, this is a good idea. Odd that both shows could've ended after fishing.




Is that what you're supposed to do? I fail at GW related things.



I found it to be a bit silly. IF they were going down that path, why on Earth didn't Teyla actually say it was Shep in Sunday? That would've made it a lot easier for them. Having Ronon say "I always thought you two would hook up" then later suddenly know all about Kanaan was a bit contradictory.

Have you read Rachel's homepage? I'm not sure if it's a typo, but it implies that she told them before they started filming s4. This is at odds with everything else I've read on the subject.



Part of my reservation was that if they went down that path, then logically Weir couldn't have come back to Atlantis. For one thing, they were hardly going to 'reduce' Torri for a season, then bring her back fulltime. You're right, what we got was the best we could really hope for, even if it wasn't completely satisfying.



I understood it to be that cousins marrying each other wasn't illegal because genetic defects were not passed on between cousins, but if further interbreeding continued, it was pretty much a certainty.



I look at it as them thinking that they got rid of Torri/Weir to improve ratings (as well as bringing Amanda/Carter over), so increasing her screentime after the fact would've been crazy to them. A pity really, they could've had the best of both worlds - bringing the SG-1 fans in, as well as having the Weir fans tune in for her eps.



Series, I meant series I thought they got the notice much later too, but I figured they must've had some idea prior to that.

TPTW: S10 is going awesome! We'll be back next year, right?
Studio: Um, we'll call you



Ditto on that. I think he talked about it in the Adrift commentary.



If done right is key, which was another factor in my concern over the idea. TPTW were great at episodical character moments, not so much with the arcs.



I hope it wasn't as explosive as it sounds

Which understandably leads to some of the frustration of some fans. Extreme contradiction seemed to be their theme. There must have been a sign up in the writers' room saying "How Can We Confuse the Fans Today?"



Really? Hmm? I thought JM said they didn't find out until well into the planning for S4 and after Doppelganger which was an RCC project that was filmed first. Maybe they were afraid to tell Cooper. LOL Then if we go by that assumption, some of the stuff in Doppelganger wasn't intended to be shippy. Huh.

We need clarification. Where's FH? She's our expert on all things Teyla.




I'd say it wasn't illegal early on because they didn't know about genetics. Later, I think it only applies to first cousins. And remember that in ancient times it was customary for siblings to marry. Ancient Egypt for example. In those days when a child was born different they sometimes thought it was cursed in some way and killed it. It's only in modern times that we have discovered why certain traits are passed down from our parents.



Good judgment was never their strong suit. They thought all the SG-1 fans would flock over to see AT. Didn't happen. Especially since they wrote her OOC. And they underestimated the number of Weir fans, but even to this day they would never admit their mistake.

TPTB: "Mistake? What mistake? I see no mistake of which you speak."

Cousins intermarrying was thought to preserve a bloodline and culture and keep the noble lines strong. Plus, marrying cousins sort of guaranteed like-minded thinking in many cases, the same values, familial bgs, etc--like Mr. Collins deciding to select from his First Cousins in P&P first, before he went out of the family, to keep the estate completely within the family and because he 'knew' them. Little did they know that by doing so they increased the chances of genetic abnormalities. That's not to say one generation of it happening would do anything, but many generations could. But no one at that time knew that--sort of like the thinking they could 'bleed out' an infectious disease by cutting open people's arms and letting blood drain.

Nowadays there are all kinds of reasons to prohibit it (and truthfully in my state it's only first cousins that can't, I believe) not strictly genetic. But as SR says, once they found out about the potential for problems over multiple generations I'm sure it was a contributing factor.

[TheLadyMore]

Hey Sparkys thank you soo much for the good wishes and get well soon love. Really it meant alot to me

I am happy to report that with a good nights rest my nasty food poisoning bug has been vanquished and I am up and about. So thank you all again for the good wishes.

[gateraid]

Which understandably leads to some of the frustration of some fans. Extreme contradiction seemed to be their theme. There must have been a sign up in the writers' room saying "How Can We Confuse the Fans Today?"

They must've loved McKeller then. After all those years of telling fans they shouldn't read too much into things, suddenly we were meant to extrapolate volumes from their limited build up to "I love you" in The Shrine (not that they didn't do a passable attempt at proving they were a couple, but it was after the love confession rather than prior to it).

Not to mention all the Sam/Jack stuff, which made Carter look like Miss Havishim. After twelve years, nobody knows whether they are together or not

Really? Hmm? I thought JM said they didn't find out until well into the planning for S4 and after Doppelganger which was an RCC project that was filmed first. Maybe they were afraid to tell Cooper. LOL Then if we go by that assumption, some of the stuff in Doppelganger wasn't intended to be shippy. Huh.

We need clarification. Where's FH? She's our expert on all things Teyla.

The two of us have chatted about this before. I think it may have been a flub on the part of whomever wrote the website, as it seems to contradict what Rachel herself has said in interviews.

I'd say it wasn't illegal early on because they didn't know about genetics. Later, I think it only applies to first cousins. And remember that in ancient times it was customary for siblings to marry. Ancient Egypt for example. In those days when a child was born different they sometimes thought it was cursed in some way and killed it. It's only in modern times that we have discovered why certain traits are passed down from our parents.

Still not illegal to marry a first cousin here, although we don't believe in killing cursed children. I think.

Good judgment was never their strong suit. They thought all the SG-1 fans would flock over to see AT. Didn't happen. Especially since they wrote her OOC. And they underestimated the number of Weir fans, but even to this day they would never admit their mistake.

The trouble was they talked Carter up prior to the season airing, but most of the stuff they talked about didn't really eventuate eg talking tough to Sheppard.

TPTB: "Mistake? What mistake? I see no mistake of which you speak."

Cousins intermarrying was thought to preserve a bloodline and culture and keep the noble lines strong. Plus, marrying cousins sort of guaranteed like-minded thinking in many cases, the same values, familial bgs, etc--like Mr. Collins deciding to select from his First Cousins in P&P first, before he went out of the family, to keep the estate completely within the family and because he 'knew' them. Little did they know that by doing so they increased the chances of genetic abnormalities. That's not to say one generation of it happening would do anything, but many generations could. But no one at that time knew that--sort of like the thinking they could 'bleed out' an infectious disease by cutting open people's arms and letting blood drain.

Nowadays there are all kinds of reasons to prohibit it (and truthfully in my state it's only first cousins that can't, I believe) not strictly genetic. But as SR says, once they found out about the potential for problems over multiple generations I'm sure it was a contributing factor.

True Blood has proved once and for all that bleeding people out doesn't cure people of disease, it merely spreads it. I trust the scientific data from that programme without reservation I'm still waiting for one of my cows to turn into a human being though