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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    On Elizabeth and Simon. This opinion may be a bit unpopular, butElizabeth, IMO; has relationship issues. maybe even more than John does - and it doesn't reflect in romantic field only, but in her relationships with people in general. I think she is afraid in becoming too invested; not because she is cold, but because she fears emotions could be so overwhelming, and she wouldn't be able to function as a diplomat/leader/whatever. She likes and needs control and to know things are in their rightful places. It is a notion that makes her feel secure. She also puts work before her personal life, which is another reason why she isn't that good in relationships. Relationship too is work, and you have to give it first priority sometimes (often) and sometime early in her life I think she has decided not to do it. I think that to her strength of emotions may be too frightening in its power and for these combined reasons she likes to keep distance. Sometimes it's a significant distance.

    It's not really strange that she is a good diplomat - to be good at it it's required to keep people at least at hand's length. It's something Elizabeth is doing pretty much all the time.

    But the beauty of her is in the fact that all the while she does feel strongly, and connects to people and manages to be open to ideas, caring, compassionate and balance it all out. However, she likes safety, and safe is something that is predictable, and I believe her relationship with Simon was predictable and slightly boring. But it felt safe. It worked for her because it never pushed too many buttons. Somehow I think Simon was/is similar, and perhaps not so invested in the relationship - after all he moved on pretty fast.

    Because I love romance, and J/E romance is my favorite kind, I think John is someone who can push most, if not all of Elizabeth's buttons. I think they are particularly interesting relationship material because they both have relationship issues, but even then they're on the same page. They can have a harmonic and happy relationship, or deal with those issues or have pashes of one and another and it's never boring. They're not a sugary romance. Another thing that I love about them is that they influence each other, but it's shown subtly through the show - John becomes less impulsive and Elizabeth learns when to pull out the big guns, so to speak
    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
      Ummm...let's see.

      We're up to Episode 8: The Wraith Worshipper episode.
      Writer: Erin87
      Tentative suggested Titles: The Sect

      General idea is at our journal. Open for discussion!

      Another tentative suggestion: "Dona nobis pacem" (it's latin for "Give us peace" and usually a part of the prayer during a mass.)I was aiming for the shock effect with the title (ie something completely opposite than what the story is about).
      I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
        The top part you mention is the part I can't argue on as well (though I'm getting there) and that's what happened after "Lifeline". He does lose the happy-go-lucky some; I think that's because, unlike all the rest of his life, he is heavily invested in Atlantis now--it IS his life--and when he loses a part of that, it deeply affects him. He does change. You put your heart into something--you are open to love and get loved in return--but when you lose that, it's also a greater, harder, deeper loss. This is what happened to John, IMO, when everything changed and he lost Elizabeth and Carson.

        Elizabeth in particular, because from an objective standpoint she was the first who accepted him; the first he trusted and who trusted him. Plus, they being co-leaders, relying on one another, and just understanding each other, too, played a big part in his life on Atlantis. That is heavily recognized in canon and vocalized by Caldwell in "Conversion", and also in "Trinity" when Rodney tells John Elizabeth will listen to him. In losing Elizabeth, John lost a little part of his own heart, whether you think it's romantic or not, and that changes a person, and there is no going back from a change that great.

        Through Season 4, that loss is pretty easily communicated through his demeanor. I have to wait and see what Season 5 brings for me personally, but I do see a dynamic shift in John so far.
        I think S5 will show you a John that may surprise you. I found him at times to seem like he was just going through the motions. Some viewers said he was OOC for S5 but that's not the case. I think it was just the next step after so much loss. He had one light moment that I recall and the rest was either just doing the job or yet another desperate attempt to save someone.

        Originally posted by nephtys59 View Post
        This is more and more interesting.
        Good analysis Eri13!!!

        BTW, I never thought John needed to be "saved" by Elizabeth or anybody else, but I do believe he needed someone to push and trust him enough to make him give and show THE BEST of himself.
        Just as I believe that John returned the favour to Elizabeth

        Dr. House quote: "You push my buttons, I push yours"

        Didn't J&E do the same?
        Why am I having a gutter moment at the button pushing?

        Originally posted by Probie View Post
        I agree with nephty. Your conversation is interesting. Too tired to give my opinion in english for the moment.
        But I can do a monologue about them in french if you want.lol

        I was bored. So I watched some sparky vids on youtube. Two months without see them. I feel nostalgic now and so disappointed by this show. I'm starting to lose my love for this show and I find it sad. (It's not only because Sparky is not on the show.) Maybe you can help me.lol
        Look how long I've been around. Surely your attention span is longer than a few months.
        sigpic

        Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
          Another tentative suggestion: "Dona nobis pacem" (it's latin for "Give us peace" and usually a part of the prayer during a mass.)I was aiming for the shock effect with the title (ie something completely opposite than what the story is about).
          AH! Mass parts! (We sing the Agnus Dei every Sunday, sometimes in Latin).

          I don't know if "Grant us Peace" would work in the case of this episode, because I do think the title still has to tie in somehow, even with a shock value title. What were you thinking of the relevance of "give us peace?"

          I do love the idea of a Latin style title, though--what about "Sanctus"? That means "Holy" (another Mass part).

          'Nuna, love your thoughts on Elizabeth--unfortunately I don't have time to respond today. Hopefully the discussion will continue...
          Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

          Comment


            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
            On Elizabeth and Simon. This opinion may be a bit unpopular, butElizabeth, IMO; has relationship issues. maybe even more than John does - and it doesn't reflect in romantic field only, but in her relationships with people in general. I think she is afraid in becoming too invested; not because she is cold, but because she fears emotions could be so overwhelming, and she wouldn't be able to function as a diplomat/leader/whatever. She likes and needs control and to know things are in their rightful places. It is a notion that makes her feel secure. She also puts work before her personal life, which is another reason why she isn't that good in relationships. Relationship too is work, and you have to give it first priority sometimes (often) and sometime early in her life I think she has decided not to do it. I think that to her strength of emotions may be too frightening in its power and for these combined reasons she likes to keep distance. Sometimes it's a significant distance.

            It's not really strange that she is a good diplomat - to be good at it it's required to keep people at least at hand's length. It's something Elizabeth is doing pretty much all the time.

            But the beauty of her is in the fact that all the while she does feel strongly, and connects to people and manages to be open to ideas, caring, compassionate and balance it all out. However, she likes safety, and safe is something that is predictable, and I believe her relationship with Simon was predictable and slightly boring. But it felt safe. It worked for her because it never pushed too many buttons. Somehow I think Simon was/is similar, and perhaps not so invested in the relationship - after all he moved on pretty fast.

            Because I love romance, and J/E romance is my favorite kind, I think John is someone who can push most, if not all of Elizabeth's buttons. I think they are particularly interesting relationship material because they both have relationship issues, but even then they're on the same page. They can have a harmonic and happy relationship, or deal with those issues or have pashes of one and another and it's never boring. They're not a sugary romance. Another thing that I love about them is that they influence each other, but it's shown subtly through the show - John becomes less impulsive and Elizabeth learns when to pull out the big guns, so to speak
            I think you've got Elizabeth to a T! In keeping with what you said about her possibly fearing such strong emotions, with her perhaps-misplaced desire for something "normal," she's withdrawn even more from the idea of having a relationship after the breakup with Simon. In a way, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy; give too much (or rather, what she thinks/fears is "too much"), and she loses the relationship. So she pulls back. John's going to have his work cut out for him, methinks.

            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
            Another tentative suggestion: "Dona nobis pacem" (it's latin for "Give us peace" and usually a part of the prayer during a mass.)I was aiming for the shock effect with the title (ie something completely opposite than what the story is about).
            I like shocking.

            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
            AH! Mass parts! (We sing the Agnus Dei every Sunday, sometimes in Latin).

            I don't know if "Grant us Peace" would work in the case of this episode, because I do think the title still has to tie in somehow, even with a shock value title. What were you thinking of the relevance of "give us peace?"

            I do love the idea of a Latin style title, though--what about "Sanctus"? That means "Holy" (another Mass part).

            'Nuna, love your thoughts on Elizabeth--unfortunately I don't have time to respond today. Hopefully the discussion will continue...
            A rather twisted "Holy," to be sure...

            I had a thought in terms of art direction for this one... Perhaps the Wraith worshippers have some sort of hidden temple in the forest where they take their sacrifices, decorated with the skulls and bones of the bodies. I'm kinda channeling some Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom type stuff.
            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
              AH! Mass parts! (We sing the Agnus Dei every Sunday, sometimes in Latin).

              I don't know if "Grant us Peace" would work in the case of this episode, because I do think the title still has to tie in somehow, even with a shock value title. What were you thinking of the relevance of "give us peace?"

              I do love the idea of a Latin style title, though--what about "Sanctus"? That means "Holy" (another Mass part).

              'Nuna, love your thoughts on Elizabeth--unfortunately I don't have time to respond today. Hopefully the discussion will continue...
              What I was thinking - the wraith worshippers seemed to think (at least in S2 ?) that Wraith would spare them, grant them the temporary peace, if they "behave".

              I could read through complete mass (maybe there's something better in there?), I used to sing completely in Latin. But, just an idea.
              I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                What I was thinking - the wraith worshippers seemed to think (at least in S2 ?) that Wraith would spare them, grant them the temporary peace, if they "behave".

                I could read through complete mass (maybe there's something better in there?), I used to sing completely in Latin. But, just an idea.
                Okay, that makes sense! The entire Agnus Dei reads like this:

                Agnus Dei (Lamb of God)
                Qui Tollis Peccata Mundi (You take away the sins of the world)
                Miserere Nobis (Have Mercy on us)
                Dona Nobis Pacem (Grant us Peace)

                I can do a couple of other recitations as well, if needed! We sing in English in Church, but courtesy performance choir I've done these in Latin as well--I loved it! *hums Beethoves Mass in C*
                Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

                Comment


                  Okay, I'm a little out of the loop ... But I just saw Sparky onscreen together on SyFy (SGA "Aurora") (and they weren't doin anything particularly Sparky-ish ... but they were together! And alive!) and it relit the Sparky fires.

                  Who wants to catch me up?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                    Okay, I'm a little out of the loop ... But I just saw Sparky onscreen together on SyFy (SGA "Aurora") (and they weren't doin anything particularly Sparky-ish ... but they were together! And alive!) and it relit the Sparky fires.

                    Who wants to catch me up?
                    Long story short we're in the middle of planning our virtual season six! (we just started discussing the wraith worshippers episode) Jump in and join the discussions! Welcome back!!!
                    I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                      What I was thinking - the wraith worshippers seemed to think (at least in S2 ?) that Wraith would spare them, grant them the temporary peace, if they "behave".

                      I could read through complete mass (maybe there's something better in there?), I used to sing completely in Latin. But, just an idea.
                      "Behave" and give them lots of tasty eats, that is. *evil grin*

                      Latin! Ah, I love how this thread is so classically intellectual. We rock.

                      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                      Okay, I'm a little out of the loop ... But I just saw Sparky onscreen together on SyFy (SGA "Aurora") (and they weren't doin anything particularly Sparky-ish ... but they were together! And alive!) and it relit the Sparky fires.

                      Who wants to catch me up?
                      Welcome back! And I second Anuna's invitation to join in on the fun with planning our Virtual Season Six. The more, the merrier!
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                        Okay, I'm a little out of the loop ... But I just saw Sparky onscreen together on SyFy (SGA "Aurora") (and they weren't doin anything particularly Sparky-ish ... but they were together! And alive!) and it relit the Sparky fires.

                        Who wants to catch me up?
                        Welcome back. Sparky just won't go away for any of us. This ship just gets in your heart and stays there.
                        sigpic

                        Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          Welcome back. Sparky just won't go away for any of us. This ship just gets in your heart and stays there.
                          They're just so adorable! How can anyone not love them?
                          (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                          Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                            Agnus Dei (Lamb of God)
                            Qui Tollis Peccata Mundi (You take away the sins of the world)
                            Miserere Nobis (Have Mercy on us)
                            Dona Nobis Pacem (Grant us Peace)
                            What about a simple "Adoremus"?

                            Comment


                              Whoever answered my question. I'm talking about the story where like they find Elizabeth on another planet. I know it's called whisper something or another.

                              Comment


                                I'm starting to gather the notes for the Wraith worshipper episode and we have a number of title suggestions so far:

                                The Sect
                                Give Us Peace or Grant Us Peace
                                Sanctus
                                Adoremus

                                Anyone else care to weigh in on these or suggest an alternative? I like the idea of a Latin title tying in with religious worship. Adoremus would be my personal choice. This would illustrate what blind worship without educating yourself about your particular deity might lead to.
                                sigpic

                                Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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