Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

To me ship isn't a priority...

I thought I was gonna have to slap you until you kept on talkin... (grin)

characterization is...

OH HECK YEAH.


I would like to see Weir developed a lot more (Carl Binder and Martin Gero are doing a terrific job so far) and become a much more "rounded" female figure than Stargate often churns out.

I'm feeling that is the case as well-really on both Shep and Elizabeth thus far. But it is important for a female. We know they can develop an interesting male character but males have a harder time with females.


I still think that it is important for the audience to know WHY these people should be together. There must be something that connects the two together apart from the usual leadership/professional stuff...

That is DEAD ON. I love the 'gazes' and the small touches and squeezies and the like but if you don't have scenes occasionally like you had at the beginning of 'Intruder' where you get to see them stop and talk and enjoy getting to know each other, then it isn't worth a hill of beans. I want to know WHY Elizabeth is willing to fight so hard for John when she wasn't for Simon. She's obviously already 'connected' with John on some level that probably she doesn't even understand yet and it has more to do with than just his good looks. That is what I will love seeing explored more as time goes on. I want to see why John is willing to 'take' off of Elizabeth and really listen to her but is resistant to everyone else. As this development goes, so does the relationship. I didn't see a lot of that between jack and sam in sg-1. So far, we're getting more character meat in atlantis and I am thrilled about it. I can't wait to see John's backstory.


Yeah... I'm very demanding... hehehe... but you know... if I'm going to sit around and watch two people getting up close and personal, I want to know why I should invest my heart and soul into it.

Shippers and characterization nuts have no other recourse than to be demanding with TPTB. It's just our...nature. ; )

good post.

-B ; )

[Southern Red]

I have to start staying up later. There's a lot I want to reply to, but by the time I get everything done and back on here there'll be several more pages to deal with. Bama, don't you know Southern women all have the same brain. It must be a gene thang. Welcome to all new people. Relax, have a bowl of cereal. We're nuts in so many ways, but we're fun. Also, may I go off topic for a moment and say "Welcome home, Discovery!!!" Women drivers rule!

[Bama]

Everything you say makes sense! I'm 34 (arrggghhh!! help! When did that happen???) and I was into Dr Who and stuff like that as a kid. Seriously nerdy, but you know what? I liked the imagination and (now really dodgy!) effects and monsters that went with it.

What I love about Atlantis, that even Stargate doesn't have, is that Elizabeth is so unlike any other sci-fi character. Sam's the brainiac and everything, and there's no denying she's beautiful, but she's the soldier, she's tough physically, which is what so much sci-fi is about.

Elizabeth brings a more graceful, feminine side to the show. She's not your obvious in your face 'hot alien chick' which they're going for with Teyla. She's just your average earth girl who's had this serious, responsible career, and finds herself in the middle of something unimaginable. I like that she's not military, I like that not everything is second nature to her. Of all the characters on the show, she's the one whos most like "one of us".
She's more the 'human' element on the show.

Good post!

Even my favorite female character of all time, Dana Scully toted a gun and could jackslap with the best of them. ; ) The atlantis writers have a fine line to walk with elizabeth and thus far, have done a good job of walking it. However, as time goes on, the challenge will increase. They don't want to make her look too wimpy and when you only have her talking all the time, or relying on the 'big strong man' to protect her in dire situations, the chances of that go up. Of course that is part of what the military's job is there on atlantis - to protect the scientists. However, it would seem to me a logical step that *everyone* on Atlantis should know how to shoot a gun. And some of those scientists could really use the practice. (See Rodney ; ) I'd love to see a scene with some training going on for them. The constant dangers and the past siege ought to be more than enough to warrant some training for those not proficient in this area. To see the scientists improve over time at helping to protect themselves from harm would be a logical progression I'd think. However, I wouldn't want to see Elizabeth go from simpering, helpless female to WonderWoman overnight. Talk about cheeze. And, I *still* want to see her get her butt kicked in a fight. ; ) That might humble that head a little and in the process convince her to work a little harder at learning a few military fighting techniques.

But like you, all in all, I love how she is a sense of calm in a hostile atmosphere. I love how she's willing to learn on the job and how she isn't prepared for everything thrown at her. That is natural and logical. But she's got a calm presence, a sharp brain and a warrior's *spirit* and that is what makes her growth so interesting to watch imho.

-Bama ; )

[SallyLizzie]

I *still* want to see her get her butt kicked in a fight. ; )

This reminds me of the scene in THe Gift where

Spoiler:

Wraith!Teyla kicks everyones ass.Carson gets thrown across the romm unexspectidly, John gets hit with the IV pole and when Ford tackles her she kicks his ass too. Then she turns and walks towards Lizzie and she's just stood there slowly backing away with a deer-in-headlights expression. You can tell from her stance that there was no way she was going to get into it with Teyla. Bates shoots Teyla down before she can harm Liz but the point is she just stood there and made no attempt to bring her down or defend herself

. It would be nice to see Liz undertake, or at least show evidence of, some training, if only in hand-to-hand combat so she isn't totally defenseless.

WELCOME *ATLANTISFAN*!

[astronomicalchick]

Also, may I go off topic for a moment and say "Welcome home, Discovery!!!" Women drivers rule!

So she does!

Pity it was black and I couldn't actually see it!

What?

Oh yeah...

S/W are so hot

[seetheship]

It would be nice to see Liz undertake, or at least show evidence of, some training, if only in hand-to-hand combat so she isn't totally defenseless.

Wonder who might volunteer to help her train?

[FoolishPleasure]

Don't worry Rubi... FP is just having a dig at Martin...
We all know what we saw... Martin (whom I admire greatly mind you) is just going through denial...
But seriously... the hug could be interpreted on different levels...

What got me excited was Stargate... FINALLY... and unashamedly trying to create little emotional moments between male and female characters.

I actually enjoy Martin Gero's work very much, but I didn't care for his "hug" comment. Uh, HE wrote that "hug" scene and he knew very well what sort of reaction it would cause. I sometimes wonder if they don't stir the pot on purpose and have fun watching our reactions. *grrrr*

[Droops]

I sometimes wonder if they don't stir the pot on purpose and have fun watching our reactions. *grrrr*

Ya think?!? . . . ..

[FoolishPleasure]

Also, may I go off topic for a moment and say "Welcome home, Discovery!!!" Women drivers rule!

My son was able to meet most of the crew at "Space Day" at the Smithsonian Air & Space last spring, so he was all excited about the landing. He is much into the Hubble Telescope as well. . alas, that is going away due to lack of funding.

Anyway. . .Now. .back to S/W.

Good to see the "jar" is still with us. Since the office has been recorated, I wonder if she has replaced the mints?

[xkawaiix]

WELCOME!!!! AtlantisFan!

[Rubicon]

I agree that we don't want her to be relying on the 'big strong man' to protect her.

I am really, really torn about this. I think of Elizabeth as President, Govener, etc... They don't carry the gun, they have people who are gonna take the bullet for them. No hesitation.

But, I also get Sqee!! Like a fangirly when the "big strong man" fails to save the day, & the woman says "I Can Save Myself." Swoon!

[Blue Banrigh]

She can save herself by outsmarting the enemy or talking her way out of situations, like Daniel. She managed well enough in Seige II.

[Rubicon]

She can save herself by outsmarting the enemy or talking her way out of situations, like Daniel. She managed well enough in Seige II.

See. Torn.
ITA. Talking good, but guns {ON Tv} are hot, (it's were I'd like ALL my violence to be actually). We see enough running and shooting by lots of other people on Atlantis, Weir & the scientists dont need them. Although now Rodney & Becket are armed off-world.

I'd love to see her talk circles around some potential friend/enemy until their head explodes & they surrender, but as of right now I dont have confidence in the SGA writers to impress/convince me that dialogue. (sorry)

[Athenaktt]

Good to see the "jar" is still with us. Since the office has been recorated, I wonder if she has replaced the mints?

That means she might have more mints! Melyanna was right! We are so obessed with the mint jar.

[LurkerLa]

Yikes! Take your eyes off this thread for a second and it just explodes!

Well, you asked for it.

Go here. I don't feel like typing all that up yet again.

Wow... I'm not sure if I'm frightened or in awe...
But hey - I was trying to find the mean, median, and mode of our ages so I guess I've no room to comment.

Wonder who might volunteer to help her train?

I think Mel has a fic out there about this - but I can't remember for sure. Maybe it wasn't even Mel. Okay, I'm just confusing myself.

I wouldn't think I'd say this, but maybe there's such a thing as too much Shep/Weir fanfic - when I start being unable to remember what I've read and by whom, and then when I can't remember what I've read in a fic and what I've actually seen on the show.

Okay, must leave this now - I'm supposed to be composing a response to a women's history sites conference right now, not playing online.