Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

I think people have a tendency to overlook the actual character.

They see John as a fun-loving flyboy.
But if we look back at eps like Home, Brotherhood and Sanctuary we get evidence of him being highly intelligent (W&P, mensa) and the way he reacted to Chaya actually suggests to me that he isn't that much of a flyboy. Yes, he's an outrageous flirt and i'm sure he has quite a history. Most people do. But from the way he acted towards Chaya and the way he acts with Elizabeth has me thinking he has had at least 1 serious relationship in the past.

Then you look at Elizabeth. She's been set-up to be highly intellectual and with all her achievements you automatically assume she was a geek who spent all her time studying. Season 1 shows her to be very stoic so people think she's wooden and a bit heartless (especially after the Simon tape). Season 2 shows her to be more emotional so people think she's insecure and needy (especially after Intruder). The fact that she's the leader and therefore spends all her time working portrays her as rather boring.

Yet in H+S she comes to the rec room of her own accord to see what the others are up to and you find out in Intruder she knows what base-jumping is. This isn't something she would have come across in any literature you'd have thought she read (articles on politics, foriegn affairs, languages, classics etc).

ETA: Aw man, i was just off to bed and then i see Kawaii has posted 3 fics. Guess i'll have to stay up a little later

[Bama]

I think more so on on an emotional level s/j were not equal. I think Jack was better able to connect emotionally while Sam was too much in her head.

Weir seems to be to me someone who could relax and enjoy life with Sheppard.

Another very simple, straightforward and great point. SG, you're on a roll. Yeah, I think you're right.

Elizabeth cooks, she reads, she plays games on her computer, she writes letters, she enjoys dogs...she's not just geeky smart but instead, she's 'sociably smart' and if you don't get what I'm saying with that, you're probably not yourself.

Shep seems to be much the same way. He's fast on his feet and shockingly is also 'gifted' especially it seems in math. He enjoys music, reading and jogging. These two people have a 'life' and 'world' and similarities and commonalities to share with each other that don't require so much work to understand. That's important because they're both so wrapped up in their jobs related to Atlantis that 'working' at making a difficult and uneven relationship smooth enough to enjoy would almost be tanamount to impossible. The moments are far and few in between to really get to know the other. The further along a couple can start, the better in this case.

[SGLAB]

Oo, i do!

The Atlantis Games (3 chapters) and its sequal What's Up Doc? (1 chapter)

Not overly shippy but still SW and very funny.

Thanks for these recs. Sally, the second one really had me laughing with tears roling down my face. It had all my favorites, a little Shep/Weir and a little team.

[Rubicon]

Back to lurking. Just wanted to throw my 'go team!' in there. You guys rock.

~cp

Hey, the_cadpig you look really good in a cheerleader uniform!

Stay unlurkified!

[SallyLizzie]

WELCOME THE_CADPIG! Don't lurk! Come out and play. Just beware of the mints

Woo! Only 49 posts till the big 10,000 and 2 pages till we make 500 pages.

[Bama]

I think people have a tendency to overlook the actual character.

They see John as a fun-loving flyboy.
But if we look back at eps like Home, Brotherhood and Sanctuary we get evidence of him being highly intelligent (W&P, mensa) and the way he reacted to Chaya actually suggests to me that he isn't that much of a flyboy. Yes, he's an outrageous flirt and i'm sure he has quite a history. Most people do. But from the way he acted towards Chaya and the way he acts with Elizabeth has me thinking he has had at least 1 serious relationship in the past.

Then you look at Elizabeth. She's been set-up to be highly intellectual and with all her achievements you automatically assume she was a geek who spent all her time studying. Season 1 shows her to be very stoic so people think she's wooden and a bit heartless (especially after the Simon tape). Season 2 shows her to be more emotional so people think she's insecure and needy (especially after Intruder). The fact that she's the leader and therefore spends all her time working portrays her as rather boring.

Yet in H+S she comes to the rec room of her own accord to see what the others are up to and you find out in Intruder she knows what base-jumping is. This isn't something she would have come across in any literature you'd have thought she read (articles on politics, foriegn affairs, languages, classics etc).

ETA: Aw man, i was just off to bed and then i see Kawaii has posted 3 fics. Guess i'll have to stay up a little later

Wow, we are close to 10,000 posts...I smell blood in the water and as an avid college football fan myself, I feel the need to reach the goal line so I'll post another worthless post here to help us out.

SL, I do think John has been 'burned' in his past. I'm still not sold that it was in a relationship with a woman but instead may have been his father or someone else. However, it would make sense given his 'live and let live' nature that a woman has indeed burned him at some point and his 'flyboy' ways are a reaction to that hurt he felt. I could see him totally falling for a woman in his youth only to find that she wasn't being faithful to him causing him feelings of unworthiness of a woman's love. John strikes me as the type of man who would need to be convinced that a woman really loved him for him but then, that could be wrong conjecture on my part too. *shrug* I do think he guards his heart carefully and that his thing with chaya was based more on something he felt between his legs than anything he had in his chest or head.

I strongly feel that Elizabeth is woman with a rebel nature that's been trapped into being someone at times who couldn't feel free to be herself. I would tend to think her relationship with Simon, while easy and comfortable at times was rather smothering to the real Elizabeth inside her and may have been what really spurned her to jump at the chance at Atlantis.

I think they've both been wounded in different ways and they're finding that if they find the right person and meld with them that no past hurt is too difficult to overcome. It won't be easy for either of them to open themselves to love for each other but they will whether they think they want it together or not.

[SGLAB]

Just read Chaos Theory. Great story, Mel. The last scene put a smile on my face.

[Bama]

Was reading earlier over on the season two ep threads and noticed a lot of chatter on 'The Long Goodbye'. Looks like everyone is rather psyched for this ep because of what it allows for Weir's character and how it will affect Shep. Interesting to read over there because a lot of those 'guys' are men and a lot of them are not what you'd call shippers but they still see that 'connection' and 'potential' between shep and weir even if they don't really watch the show for it like er...we do.

Spoiler:

Well, something one of the guys said caused a lightbulb to go off in my head. The title has been buggin the crap out of me because usually the title is heavily tied into the plot of the story. Well, the guy said that 'the long goodbye' was a code term for 'alzheimer's disease'. And I thought, Yeah! I remember when my grandmother was diagnosed with that years ago that the nurses referred to it as a 'long goodbye disease'. Well, that leads me to wonder if *if* Elizabeth is infected with something that she may have the symptoms of not knowing who everyone is-or forgetting-much like someone who is crazy with alzheimer's. That would make sense given that she is supposed to open a can o' whoopass on shep. If she were affected, she certainly might if she thought him something or someone else. Now, I know that doesn't sound very 'shippy' at first glance and certainly , I do really hope she knows *exactly* who he is while going after him but if she is afflicted like this, it certainly might be angsty shippy to see shep trying to make her 'remember' him and 'get thru' to her. And, you know it would tear his guts and heart out to watch her 'expiring' before his eyes as he watched helpless. He'd get to experience her feelings in 'conversion'. Might be interesting...

Dunno...just thought you guys might find that interesting.

here's a link: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=17802

[FoolishPleasure]

If we can get a "flip" side of Conversion, then we'll know TPTB are going for this "ship".

[Melyanna]

I've yet to be able to shake the Alzheimer's association from my thoughts on The Long Goodbye. It's probably because my grandfather had Alzheimer's, and... also my West Wing obsession.

Spoiler:

If there is some kind of alien virus or something involved – which I have to admit seems likely – I hope it has to do with her memory and not her fighting ability. I want Elizabeth to be able to defend herself without alien influence, and she shouldn't need it just because she's not built like a warrior princess. So I can deal with exposure to some kind of virus as long as it's not making her super-strong. That's happened twice already this season, and that's quite enough.

[Melyanna]

If we can get a "flip" side of Conversion, then we'll know TPTB are going for this "ship".

Well, they say bad things happen in threes. By the end of the season,

Spoiler:

we'll have had three girlfriends-of-the-week for John. So maybe once that's out of the way, we can get to having pairs of episodes where we start seeing both sides of the coin?

[Rubicon]

I can see

Spoiler:

Elizabeth not being super-strong, Shep might get beat up trying to defend himself against her. TLG promo pic of John shows a bandage on his arm & is that gun he's holding some new-fangled kind?

I'm waiting for the Hot Zone makers to reappear also.

[Bama]

I've yet to be able to shake the Alzheimer's association from my thoughts on The Long Goodbye. It's probably because my grandfather had Alzheimer's, and... also my West Wing obsession.

Spoiler:

If there is some kind of alien virus or something involved – which I have to admit seems likely – I hope it has to do with her memory and not her fighting ability. I want Elizabeth to be able to defend herself without alien influence, and she shouldn't need it just because she's not built like a warrior princess. So I can deal with exposure to some kind of virus as long as it's not making her super-strong. That's happened twice already this season, and that's quite enough.

My question though is

Spoiler:

'Would John fight her?' I can't see him doing much of anything but the bare minimum to protect himself against an aggressive Elizabeth whether she was out of her mind or not. He'd be too worried that he would hurt her and *about* her. You know Mel, I could see the writers working both the 'Elizabeth is learning self-defense on her own' and the 'Elizabeth has something that's making her crazy' into this plotline and they could do it seamlessly imo and that might stand the greatest chance of giving us the shippiness we sense could happen here. We could see Elizabeth 'learning' and doing well only to have this 'infection' cause her to use her new found skills to 'lash out' at those she normally would never do so at. I don't want her coming across like a sudden 'Wonder Woman' knockoff either only to be 'stripped' of everything at the end of the episode. The 'self-defense' angle just has too much validity and relevance after what occured in Eye/storm and conversion. She's in real danger-constantly -as the head of that city.

[Melyanna]

I can see

Spoiler:

Elizabeth not being super-strong, Shep might get beat up trying to defend himself against her. TLG promo pic of John shows a bandage on his arm & is that gun he's holding some new-fangled kind?

I'm waiting for the Hot Zone makers to reappear also.

On the Long Goodbye pictures:

Spoiler:

The gun appears to be one of the little Wraith stunners that we first saw in either Siege II or III. A lot more practical than the big ones, though less with the stabbing action.

And on the Hot Zone virus makers:

Spoiler:

There was information early that we'd be seeing them this season, but I've not seen anything since to back it up since. We're supposed to get an episode that's more about Teyla this season too, but unless "Michael" is it, that's not panning out. That said, I've got next to nothing on Inferno and Allies (the last two of the season), so it could be in either of those episode. And who knows, maybe they'll show up in The Long Goodbye.

[Bama]

If we can get a "flip" side of Conversion, then we'll know TPTB are going for this "ship".

Oh, come on FP! We already KNOW TPTB are going for this 'ship' because they have already invested a TON in it, have already built a strong foundation of trust and care and connection that all the strongest marriages are built on!!! Logic people...logic. Don't be fooled by the red herrings...this sucker is set in stone.