Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Whistler84]

Good post Whis...I may even forgive you for callin me an insane old bat!! LOL!!!

Oh, good. I'm forgiven. Last thing I want is a crazy psychopath angry at me . . . But I mean 'psychopath' in a good way. Honestly.

But this paragraph deserves props:

YEP. They've had TONS of opportunities to build and highlight 'more' building between shep and teyla and they've allowed it to remain a team/friend ship only while at the same time going totally out of their way to show shep and weir's relationship expanding and building and growing. Why? Anyone with common sense knows the answer to that one too.

[Melyanna]

You could argue that exposing himself in anger in The Storm/Eye after learning of Rodney and Elizabeth's kidnapping wasn't the brightest move imo and was pushed by his anger and emotion. You could argue that his reasoning in HZ was pushed by wanting to keep her out of harm's way as well but oddly (sarcasm RAMPANT here), you hear NO mention of that when assessing John's 'professionalism' or character do you? There are a LOT of people at risk w/o military training on the base. There are more scientists than anything there and most of them would have been no more exposed to self-defense than Elizabeth but John would KILL himself to protect Elizabeth. Is it because she's a woman? So are other scientists and medical personel. Is it because she's the leader? He's had issues with her decisions at times and there are other men capable of doing her job with skill most likely and John would know that. It's none of those. Elizabeth did something for him-she took a chance-she reached out-she listens to him with respect and she openly shows she cares about him. John responds to her in a way that he has never anyone else in his life I think. He doesn't yet understand WHAT feelings totally are driving his responses to her but he's a smart guy and in time, he'll figure it all out.

You make some interesting points here, and I'm actually reminded of a conversation I had several months ago with Major Fischer. We were talking about whether or not we saw any basis for McKay/Weir, and she reminded me that McKay's had some pretty bad luck with jobs in the gate program. Hammond got so irritated with him that he sent him to Russia, after all. Elizabeth is far more patient with him and gives him an environment in which he can do good work. That's not all that different from what Elizabeth did for John. She gave him a chance to do something really meaningful with his life when everyone else in the command structure had given up on him.

She's got very special relationships with both these men, and they're intensely loyal to her because she gave them both a chance. Look at The Eye, for example. The McKay of SG-1 probably never would have stood in front of a gun to save someone else. John probably never would have shown any respect to a different commander who admitted fear or fragility. But it's Elizabeth's ability to open herself up to those who need to be close to her that makes her such a strong leader.

Of course, Rodney is her advisor in many matters, scientific and otherwise. They remind me so much of my brother and me – scientist and linguist, and often advisor and leader. (And let me tell you, my relationship with my brother is something I really don't think you can understand unless you have a sibling with whom you're really close. He may be the same big brother who pulled my hair when we were children, but now he's one of my very best friends.) John advises Elizabeth too, of course, but with him it's different. He's her confidante and – to use an old word – her helpmeet. When she's distressed, she goes to John first if she can. John may not recognize this consciously, but the times when he's seen her hurting the most have been the times when he wasn't the person to help her stand.

[Whistler84]

You make some interesting points here, and I'm actually reminded of a conversation I had several months ago with Major Fischer. We were talking about whether or not we saw any basis for McKay/Weir, and she reminded me that McKay's had some pretty bad luck with jobs in the gate program. Hammond got so irritated with him that he sent him to Russia, after all. Elizabeth is far more patient with him and gives him an environment in which he can do good work. That's not all that different from what Elizabeth did for John. She gave him a chance to do something really meaningful with his life when everyone else in the command structure had given up on him.

She's got very special relationships with both these men, and they're intensely loyal to her because she gave them both a chance. Look at The Eye, for example. The McKay of SG-1 probably never would have stood in front of a gun to save someone else. John probably never would have shown any respect to a different commander who admitted fear or fragility. But it's Elizabeth's ability to open herself up to those who need to be close to her that makes her such a strong leader.

Of course, Rodney is her advisor in many matters, scientific and otherwise. They remind me so much of my brother and me – scientist and linguist, and often advisor and leader. (And let me tell you, my relationship with my brother is something I really don't think you can understand unless you have a sibling with whom you're really close. He may be the same big brother who pulled my hair when we were children, but now he's one of my very best friends.) John advises Elizabeth too, of course, but with him it's different. He's her confidante and – to use an old word – her helpmeet. When she's distressed, she goes to John first if she can. John may not recognize this consciously, but the times when he's seen her hurting the most have been the times when he wasn't the person to help her stand.

Gotta agree. I've always been fascinated by the interactions between McKay and Weir. I know what you mean about that whole brother-sister vibe, because I've got a close brother too, and at times my perception of M/W is exactly that. Especially when Weir shows a fond exasperation for him. She often mothers him, and isn't afraid to reprimand him.

But, at other times, I could (if I were so inclined) see the shippyness between them that doesn't exactly vibe with the brother-sister relationship. For instance, during the Eye, McKay wants to say something personal to her, but she interrupts him, like so . . .

MCKAY: If this doesn't work--
WEIR: It will.
MCKAY: I'm just saying if it doesn't work…
WEIR: It will.
MCKAY: I'm sure it will! But in the unlikely event that it doesn't I- --
WEIR: Rodney! Please.

It doesn't come off so well in text, but the scene itself was very nice. If I were so inclined, I could see this as extremely shippy. So, this is another example of ship being in the eye of the beholder. As much as I love Shep/Weir, I still don't think any one ship has ultimate claim. I like that it's subtle right now, and I can't say that while claiming it's obvious as daylight at the same time. Does that make me a moderate shipper, or something? I completely and adamently love this ship, but I don't see it as the be all or end all of the show.

I could, without too much arm-wrestling, see the potential of other ships. McKay/Weir. Teyla/Ronon (how some can concieve this as a brother-sister relationship is beyond me). Heck, I'll admit I'm more than a little bit intrigued by Weir/Lorne! :O The only ship I honestly see as sinking is Shep/Teyla, probably because most of the arguements I've often seen lobbied by some S/T fans have done little to convince me, and *some* have outright antagonized me with their Weir-bashing. I don't like Shep/Teyla, but I have *never* flamed Teyla for it. To dislike a character because it poses a threat to your ship of choice has always seemed beyond childish to me. I think those experiences have unfortunately tainted me to be completely defensive now, when it comes to S/T. I don't feel that same urge with any other potential 'rival' ships. I'm totally open-minded with every ship, *except* that one.

I can honestly say, I would be dissappointed (but not totally heartbroken) if S/W didn't happen . . . but only under the condition that S/T didn't happen in its place. That sounds petty, I know. I wish I could stay open-minded about that, because I usually am, but something about that ship just rubs me the wrong way in which a ship never has. I feel physically ill thinking about Shep/Teyla, yet McKay/Weir seems okay.

Anybody else feel this way, or is it an insanity of one?

But, anyway, I had a point to all of this. I . . . uh, must have lost it at some point. Oh, well . . . :O

[Lexa Jayde]

hey y'all

i just got back from a weeks vacation and i havent been on the net in 9 days so i was fried... there are soo many pages to catch up on... i am so proud of this thread... i did see aurora and lost boys though and i thought that they were great, i love Ford in lost boys

on to the shep/weir... i also think that the M/W is the whole brother sister thing... i have the same sorta thing with my brother... we are very close

long live shep/weir

[xkawaiix]

I don't mind the M/W too much because it kinda works at times but I usually get a brother-sister vib as well.

[SapphireJewelledQueen]

I just finished a Teyla/Ronon fic, and was thinking about doing a Shep/Weir one. Is anyone willing to be my beta??

[Easter Lily]

I don't mind the M/W too much because it kinda works at times but I usually get a brother-sister vib as well.

I enjoy their interaction a lot but I really don't see romance in the air for them. Sometimes it's brother-sister for me and on other occasions, it's mother-son... I know some were disgruntled with Weir's severe rebuke of Rodney in Trinity but I thought it was fairly consistent of that sister-mother/brother-mother dynamic. There's really no UST between them... they're just too relaxed? comfortable? with each other for that.

[Futura]

I think a ship between Wier and Sheppard would be a good back ground for few episodes, as say, Sheppard is MIA and Wier is worried that she cant control what is happening on Atlantis. Or shes being forced to call off the search for him and anounce him MIA.

There is a moment in the Siege Part 3 where she hugs Sheppard, i found that there was a spark there.
But hey thats my opinion.

(like my new signature?)

[Dorka]

Hello together, I'm finally back from hungary and have to read through 400 Posts...puh... I'll take the time later...

Have you already discussed the new Promo-Pic's???

Spoiler:

Or better just noticed, that Liz isn't on one of them

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Great M/W discussion. I really enjoy the Mckay/Weir interactions. I hang out over atthe McWeir thread pretty much these days and they're all reasonable. They also have great slogans, gifs and sigs--get a kick out of all of those lol. I'm actually trying to get a McKay/Weir fic done--mainly a comedy/freindship thing.

I see them as being close friends and good working partners, but I have to admit "The Eye" is potent McWeir. I forgot about that scene where he tries to tell Liz something, but she won't have it--very "Thrity-Eight Minutes". I don't expect their relationship to develop into something romantic, but the show cannot have enough banter between the two. I think Mel commented last night that Weir has a special relationship with bot McKay and Shep because of her faith in them. She also gave them new opportunities. Her relationship is different with both, but definitely special. I think the scene in BIS where

Spoiler:

Rodney and Shep were waiting with her while older Weir died, really shows the connection

About the lack of UST, I would agree (I think that's why the McWeir folk call it the "easy-going ship"). I've often noticed that Liz will casually touch Rodney (a pat on the back, huddling for warmth), but it is a big deal if she ever touches Shep ala the hug. Although, I'm drawing a blank right now if Rodney is as comfortable as Liz about their relationship. Maybe he has a crush--who knows....better get back to Shep/Weir...

This thread is great--such well rounded discussions. Oh and it doubles as a Major Lorne thunk thread which is always good

Royal

[mentalmichael]

Well there's nothing like going on the computer at lunchtime and finding new pages which were written at about 2am my time! one of these days i will just stay up :-)
I feel that apart from the eye there really hasn't been tht much mckay/weir stuff, but tht was a gr8 moment and I like the Mkweir shippers as they're much nicer than other shippers. The Teyla/Sheppard thread seems to be dieing, not a huge suprise but still a sign tht people are starting to think straight
Just realised I'm going to be in Germany when Atlantis starts again in the UK. I hate Sky One :-(

[Rubicon]

Hello together, I'm finally back from hungary and have to read through 400 Posts...puh... I'll take the time later...

Have you already discussed the new Promo-Pic's???

Spoiler:

Or better just noticed, that Liz isn't on one of them

Earlier in the thread when I totally spazzed about that, Melyanna assured us that shes in all the eps., ALOT!

Calming breaths!

[Rubicon]

Great M/W discussion. I really enjoy the Mckay/Weir interactions. I hang out over atthe McWeir thread pretty much these days and they're all reasonable. They also have great slogans, gifs and sigs--get a kick out of all of those lol. I'm actually trying to get a McKay/Weir fic done--mainly a comedy/freindship thing.

About the lack of UST, I would agree (I think that's why the McWeir folk call it the "easy-going ship"). I've often noticed that Liz will casually touch Rodney (a pat on the back, huddling for warmth), but it is a big deal if she ever touches Shep ala the hug. Although, I'm drawing a blank right now if Rodney is as comfortable as Liz about their relationship. Maybe he has a crush--who knows....better get back to Shep/Weir...

This thread is great--such well rounded discussions. Oh and it doubles as a Major Lorne thunk thread which is always good

Royal

I have got to get over to that thread!! M/W friendship & Lorne drool!!

And NO Rodney does not have a crush on Weir. ::stamps foot::
And Lost Boys proved it! He wanted to go to a planet w/tall blonde women (aka Sam) He's still crushin on her! Hee!



ETA: Aaak! Double post!! I'm officially a loser!

[astronomicalchick]

Please can we refrain from referring directly to other shippers and other ship threads? Talking (briefly) why you don't see a ship is fine but openly mentioning/generalising about other shippers isn't, particularly if they're negative comments.

[Kazan]

Have you already discussed the new Promo-Pic's???

Spoiler:

Or better just noticed, that Liz isn't on one of them

Earlier in the thread when I totally spazzed about that, Melyanna assured us that shes in all the eps., ALOT!

Calming breaths!

Strangely I tend to take the lack of Elizabeth as a positive sign that we are going to get some good moments, for John and Elizabeth individually and together. I mean TPTB have a track record of not spoiling the really crucial points to an episode and just feeding us the titbits to get the interest going. I wouldnt want to see too much at this stage anyway, its fun just speculating on whats going to happen!