Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lexa Jayde]

They better not take away our balcony time! What would we do with less Sparky scenes? I know that I would go absolutly bonkers! But then again- there is always fanfiction- not a good substitute....but it'll do in a pinch- if I really, really have to deal with it- but like I've said before- I doubt that that will happen, cause it isn't practical.

i LOVE the balcony scenes that wrap up an episode and that they are always just Liz and John... it is the small moments that make it all worth while!!! *sigh*

[k1037]

A Shipper is Born...

Just thought I'd share how I became a "shipper," seeing as how - if you knew me in person - you'd be fairly shocked at my being this much into a potential *romance*, of all things. I'd rather twist my nutsack until it tears off than watch your typical romance movie or chick flick, so my being here is unusual, to say the least.

Let me preface this all by saying that I was very reluctant to watch Stargate: Atlantis, and even outright avoided it as if it were the plague after reading/seeing some previews of the show. No, please don't stone me.. I've since seen the light.

But come on, purely evil beings who feed off of the "life force" ( /vomit) of humans and make lots of little hissing noises to show how advanced they are... I just thought the idea was absolutely horrible. I never gave it a chance.

But a few months back, I happened to catch some reruns and saw a few episodes that caught my interest. I was always an avid SG1 and BSG fan, so it just sort of became natural for me to go ahead and catch SGA "just for the hell of it" and quickly began to realize the previews, etc. for the Wraith and related ideas in SGA were very poorly given to media for previews and such, but had actually been very well implemented.

The main thing that quickly struck me was the dynamic between John/Elizabeth.

The Weir character is an interesting one, being a strong leader without being the ultimate zero-estrogen anti-feminine type like, say.. Janeway (I tried to like her, really I did). Weir is a real woman, girly-girly and flirty when she wants to be, but able to hold her own *without acting like a man* - which I loved seeing. Not sure that makes sense to anyone else... The fact that she's pretty damn hot and I've always had a thing for older women doesn't hurt.

The Sheppard character was also awesome. If you take him at face value, he seems immature. But really, he's not. Not one bit. He's easy-going, likes to joke around.. but is extremely serious when the situation merits it, a damned good leader, and outright loves the people around him and would do anything for them (including die). That's almost the definition of maturity, right there. So he jokes around (a lot, admittedly) and has a hard time expressing emotions, that's just fine. The motivating factors for his actions are NOT immature, and that's all that really matters.

The first episode I saw which made me wonder about those two was the rather sub-par "The Tower" - but his whole "could have got the girl" / her focusing on that little part of his entire statement made me wonder, "What.. did they go out at one point or something?"

The episode the following week, with the focus entirely on those two (The Long Goodbye) + the way they went about it, had me convinced that there was *something* going on there. The quickie comment to save his life on Teyla wasn't enough to fool me, the focus was on W/S here, and the unspoken things really gave it away. I mean, come on... he agrees to be Liz's alien's long-lost husband's host for a few hours so they can say goodbye? Can they be more obvious? What were the two of them expecting the couple to do, shake hands and wave to each other? It's obvious they were going to do some reuniting of lips, at the very least... though the rest of the relationship wasn't expected (W/S wanted to make love, not war!). They KNEW what they were getting themselves into taking on the roles of a husband/wife, and the writers putting the characters into that situation is also very telling. Imagine that same episode with Caldwell/Teyla as the two who were taken over. Does it have anywhere near the same impact? Of course not, those two were chosen for a reason.. it's rather easy to see them in a husband/wife role, kissing and everyone poking fun at/being amused by it, all that good stuff.

But TLG also made it clear that this wasn't a *past* relationship, but rather a budding one.

The few episodes I had seen were enough to make me curious to see how it started.

Ordering the first season on DVD was the best thing I could have done television entertainment-wise. The Rising 1/2 were just awesome.

But The Rising 1/2 were also just the ultimate "shipper" episodes for these two.

A quick list of moments:

• Asking Jack not for Daniel, but making it seem absolutely necessary that *John* was on the expedition. While not romantic or whatever in any way, I'm in the psych field.. and I see a strong foundation for her/him needing to rely on one another in the future. Him being her "essential man for the job" that she's willing to take a risk on (knowing he could be insubordinate to her) and her being someone who had faith him in while others obviously did not.. very powerful setup, their fates are in the hands of the other from here on out. The whole, "As long as you remember who's giving the orders." - "That would be Dr. Weir, right?" dialogue was awesome!
• After initially stepping into Atlantis, Rodney.. her good friend/almost brotherly presence up to now goes to work fiddling with the technology while Weir/Shep go from place to place inside the city together. He's not even *in command* like he will be in the future; just another soldier. There is no reason for those two, specifically, to be walking around together. Other soldiers are exploring, yet his main job seems to be Weir's personal tag-along. When they're in a new and dangerous place, she feels better with him by her side than a higher-ranking military official. Short-scene, but again.. there's no rationale writing/directing-wise for those two to be the two together at that time besides something shippy. For them to be together so much so early, before any other character relationships are established... very telling.
• Him leaving for the Athosian village... stops to wave to her. And when he walks up to the group, the Colonel looks up at Weir and has that "Damn, he's the teacher's pet!" look on his face.
• The first balcony scene AND first power struggle/emotionally charged argument between the two. They're the first two to see the city from the outside and this will be their first of MANY alone-on-the-balcony scenes charged with emotion. They end up having a wonderful argument in which both are heavily defensive of their positions and they come to an understanding. They both give some awesome lines here, first with him knowing what she was going to say and saying that her having the conversation in private means she knows it's wrong (and he's right, look at her later thorough ass-chewing of Kavanagh in 38 minutes) and her telling him to Shut Up.
• Her waiting by the gate, thinking she never should have let them go. Sure, this is concern for the team as a whole.. but you didn't see her standing by the gate wondering about the Colonel while he was captured, did you? Nope, only when our dear JS is gone is she so very concerned.
• Personally brining JS/Ford some wine, comforting the Major. Him doubting himself, her reassuring him.. very nice dynamic they created right off the bat. They argue, they see each other's point of view, they wonder if the other was right... it's nice. The blatant *pride* she has in him being the ranking officer/his forming a team. The whole co-leader setup with them leaning over... yet again, the balcony -the two of them, together.

---

38 minutes made it canon, as far as I'm concerned. I'll be shorter with this list:

• When Ford pours water on the bug and it starts to dig into him... they show everyone else concerned/shocked by his gasps/starting to feel some major pain, but who do they zoom in on and show distressed when he starts *yelling* in agony? Our devastated EW, of course.
• The rather obvious "Say something while I still can..." scene. She also calls him by his name, which they'll do with one another quite often throughout the rest of the series.
• Dr. Beckett trying to revive JS, with very blatant focus on both W/S throughout.
• "You weren't really going to say that, were you?" - "I have no idea what you're talking about." - "I didn't think so" + devilish grins from both. (Again.. blatant flirting)

---

There's been nothing but material from there on out. Don't get me started on the various parts of the Siege, The Storm/Eye, TRW, Conversion, etc.

But yeah, this slow and well-done building of a relationship between two *characters that I like* has a certain allure to it. It's not the usual romance/chick flick showing of "love" through words and CHEESY events. It's through very understandable actions taken by both, the situations they've been in, the personalities of the two, the fact that they've only survived this long due to *each other* - it makes it easy to see how they come together. They're not just two pretty faces who writers decided needed to be together so they wrote in a stupid nonsensical romance and tried to convince us. Rather, the characters just seem to be two who just have to end up with one another, it's inevitable. This kind of "romance" is one I can like without inducing my gag reflex.

[Easter Lily]

K... I would love to respond to your post... but it's late where I am but I like a lot of your insights especially about Sheppard.
Welcome to the "dark side"...

[Ronnikins]

But yeah, this slow and well-done building of a relationship between two *characters that I like* has a certain allure to it. It's not the usual romance/chick flick showing of "love" through words and CHEESY events. It's through very understandable actions taken by both, the situations they've been in, the personalities of the two, the fact that they've only survived this long due to *each other* - it makes it easy to see how they come together. They're not just two pretty faces who writers decided needed to be together so they wrote in a stupid nonsensical romance and tried to convince us. Rather, the characters just seem to be two who just have to end up with one another, it's inevitable. This kind of "romance" is one I can like without inducing my gag reflex.

Green for you, I like the way you think, especially from a male perspective.

"Slow and well-done building of a relationship" is the key phrase here. It has been subtle for the first season, not so much for the second and what can I say about the third? Wow! Especially after TRW.

It's also quite telling that a lot of us married Sparky shippers are behind this pairing. We don't have rose-coloured glasses on ( or shippy ones for that matter) and we are not necessarily "hopeless romantics". Yet, in my case at least, I prefer Sparky because it feels quite realistic in its progression and it's a mature relationship that has lots of long term potential. Now if I can only get the two main characters to realise this before the series end.

*whacks John and Elizabeth on respective heads to get some sense into them.*

BTW, keep up with the vids. Me like very much.

[zephyrfei]

A Shipper is Born...

Oh dear, I enjoyed your thread as much as I enjoyed the show. Please please wirte more opinions on those shippy moments. You made them seem shippier.

[Izzybaz]

I just happened to notice that Zero. Point. Snark. has their recap up for Sateda.

Go here!

[Descent]

A Shipper is Born...

Welcome! I definately enjoyed reading all your moments there.

[hopalong]

I agree. Plus I have a soft spot for Ben, so yeah. Having him around wouldn't be a bad thing. And since I'm being lazy and I know one of you can answer this - does Mitchell outrank Sheppard?

This may have already been answered, and I apologise if it has.

I think he may, 'cos John was only promoted at the beginning of season 2, and I get the feeling that Cameron may have held the rank of Lt Col for a bit longer.

But I could be wrong.

Edit: Melyanna beat me to the answer. What she said.

and Welcome k1037!

[FoolishPleasure]

zero.point.snark recap of "Sateda" is now up!

http://community.livejournal.com/zer...8.html?#cutid1

Not for the kiddies!

[Rubicon]

A Shipper is Born...
This kind of "romance" is one I can like without inducing my gag reflex.

At this point, I think this is what TPTB are going for re: Sparky.
Welcome k1037. We need more nutsackboy-types around here.

[Southern Red]

Welcome k1037! Loved your long post. Please continue. It's like revisiting a favorite book. Those shippy moments look even better from a new perspective.

Here's a thought I had re: CG.

Spoiler:

After this episode, they will no longer be able to say John is too young for Liz.

Please don't hurt me.

[ddc]

RE: "firestorm on the internet" - Total speculation on my part, but I've just tought of a situation other than a character death that could be controversial. It's something that's been speculated on here and writen into a lot of fanfic, ie: Elizabeth being placed in a situation where she has to pick up a weapon.

Of course it could also be another morally/ethically ambiguous decision like Michael/Misbegotten; they do tend to generate a lot of net chatter.

[Pocus]

A Shipper is Born...

Just thought I'd share how I became a "shipper," seeing as how -

Welcome to Sparky. That was a well thought out post. Loved the deeper insights into some of their interaction.

This is definitely a "work in progress" relationship and I hope it continues that way. Most things that are good quality and long lasting take time to perfect. From what we have seen so far, they are going to be as perfect together as Chocolate and Peanut Butter! *You can pick your own perfect pairing but nothing is better for me*

[Bama]

A Shipper is Born...

Nail. Hammer. Sparky.

Excellent analysis in a first post! You see and 'feel' so much of what many of us here 'get'. This one isn't silly. I may be female but I absolutely ABHOR the silly and downright trite soap operish things with no rhyme or reason or solid foundation we get on so many shows. John and Elizabeth have a real chance to be a fantastic, exciting and mature male/female romance. It's believable and with their ongoing mission, would be forever viable. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd love to hear more of your perspectives. It's always great to get a fresh 'voice'/insight into the world and wonderful relationship that is John and Elizabeth.

[Sukiyaki]

You're not alone.

***drops in from lurk***

Heya mcat... just noticed your cute sig.... is that a John/Liz smiley from Gateworld?