Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Blower'sGate]

Ok so, Sateda was one of my favourite episode so far. Jason was fantastic in this episode, I loved almost everything about this episode. The cafetaria scene between Teyla and our flyboy was very intense in a way that I might have dread if it hadn't been handled correctly. I'm going to put my point under spoiler tags.

Spoiler:

What I mean is, that if you look at the scene without, in most cases, assuming that there are sparky things going on, you'll see that there might be a little John/Teyla "thing" in it ( it's exactly what the John/Teyla shippers believe at the moment, like we do for our own ship ) but nevertheless it is clear to me, in an objective way without any jealousy of some sorts towards an other ship, that this scene was about friendship and the bond they have built for the past two years. I even 'd like to quote Rodney on that: "We have an unspoken bond and there are things that go deeper than words my friend" Rodney talking about his friendship with Ronon, lol! John looked like a kid, letting his guard down, he almost cried ( so sweet! ), he isn't at ease when he's not in control of his deepest emotions, he's just the strong funny guy with this huge heart. Teyla and John had a great scene that, at least, let us know where is Ronon in the middle of all those main characters and that as far as he has a back story and, as far as we know what his team leader and Teyla think of him, we'll probaby see this character around for a while.... GREAT!!!!

Now let's head to a certain sparky way of seeing things through:

Spoiler:

Their conversation was different than any conversation we had between Elisabeth and John I can recall. Why? Because John's emotions in that scene were mainly meant for Ronon. He was the trigger to John's true feelings toward, not only his team, mentioning Teyla first obviously because she's right in front of him, but to Elisabeth the superior ( lol sounds like a p-rn movie lol !) She was the second person to be mentioned ( not that it really means something but to please some of you, it's still something, lol!
And there's something else that's interesting, the fact John mentioned everybody means this conversation wasn't about him expressing feelings other than you're a friend, even family, for Teyla.

So, IMO these two (not so detailed) analysis proove a point:
There's still so much sparkiness in the "TPTB's" air! lol, I love to say it this way even if it doesn't mean a thing.

Good night and Good luck folks!

xxxxxx

[Vala_Black]

Oooookay.

Didn't we get past that whole age issue with the fact that she's not even three years older than Shep? {Not clear-headed enough to calculate it exactly, but I could if necessary! } And I'm not attacking you or your significant other, just so we're clear, but that is just a completely stupid thing to say.

im not sure if should put spoiler tags on or not but im gonna anyway, i found out the ages of our beloved lizzie and john...

Spoiler:

keep in mind that these are the actors ages, torri higginson is turning 40 in december and joe flanigan will be 40 next january. so barely a month's difference

[Ronnikins]

Ahhhhhhh....sweet.......*that is the sound of one who has discharged all her RL duties and has now finally got time to play.*

First off, WELCOME MORE NEWBIES and am enjoying all your fresh insights.

FP is not here to offer you mints, so have some mint cookies in the meantime.

RoryJ (aka Jamie), that was a great vid.
And Lizzyana? Considering English is not your native tongue you did a great job with that piece of poetry.

In case anybody's interested, the Sateda caps are up here:Sateda

[gambit]

im not sure if should put spoiler tags on or not but im gonna anyway, i found out the ages of our beloved lizzie and john...

Spoiler:

keep in mind that these are the actors ages, torri higginson is turning 40 in december and joe flanigan will be 40 next january. so barely a month's difference

It should also be kept in mind that characters usually are younger than the actors who play them.

[Ronnikins]

Now, diving headlong into the discussion of Sateda and TRW.
Be warned, it's going to be rambly and you mightn't agree with my analysis but, hey, that's the stuff of interesting discussions, right?
After all the blatant Sparky scenes we've been getting so far this season I was "girding my loins", so to speak for the inevitable S/T scenes I forewarned to counterbalance it all. It came with Sateda.

Spoiler:

I must confess I gritted my teeth before watching that J/T scene but lo and behold! I really, really enjoyed it. The first thing that popped into my head was "sweet". I thought that was a very sweet, natural scene between John and Teyla and long overdue. Kudos to the actors and Rob Cooper for such a great bonding scene. Did I think that scene shippy? No, not really, I thought it was more a great moment in character development for John and Teyla, team emphasis and "family" bonding. I'll explain why.

First off, to clarify my viewpoint on Sparky. I'm doing this with non-shipper eyes (hopefully).
Season 1, Sparky was the little ship that never was meant to happen, but there were enough chemistry between the actors that certain viewers saw the potential for such a pairing. Since it was never meant to be, all interactions were in the eye of the beholder and hence it was very subtle and subject to debate. I don't think there were any romantic feelings on either side at this point but there was this building up of friendship between J/E. TPTB acknowledged antagonism didn't work for these two. This is canon. Even noromos and other shippers saw the friendship between these two.
This budding friendship blossomed in season 2. Romance? Not really. Even up to "Intruder" Elizabeth wanted Simon to come to Atlantis. So this made the hug in Siege 3 and the coffee scene in "Intruder" more close friendship than anything else. (please don't hit me) Anyway, it was only after this door was closed that things got more interesting. The J/E scenes got more overt. The balcony and desk scenes are some of the ones that come to mind. They are quite intimate scenes, one-on-one. (No, you naughty posters, that's not what I mean.) These scenes reflected the harmony, trust and deep friendship growing between these two.
OK, seguing back to the J/T scene in Sateda. This is the scene TPTB should have had in Season 1 if they wanted to set up a J/T pairing. If they kept this up then I would have seen the potential for such a ship. But they didn't. Instead they focused these types of scenes more with J/E in Season 2 and we hardly saw any J/T scenes for the same period.
Come Season 3, blatant non-plot related Sparky scenes in Misbegotten, oh no, we don't need no shipper glasses. I've decided not to squee over every little possible interaction between the two. Hence, moments considered squee-worthy in S1 and 2, I'm treating as just friendship moments in Season 3, such as standing very close together, calling each other by their first names, or even showing concern when they are in danger. This can all be put down to the very close friendship they have formed. No, the two scenes which stand out in my mind which can be considered Sparky were the debriefing scene and the "honour" office scene. Fair enough, for the first one it was a team bonding scene and Elizabeth could be said to have gotten all emotional about seeing ALL of them alive again. It was the intensity of John's stare and his later emotional "choking up" that took me completely by surprise. I wasn't expecting it and it lasted for an eternity for a TV show. This was re-enforced in the office scene which I pointed out before as being a totally unnecessary scene plot-wise since all the exposition was covered by earlier ones or could have have been covered by other characters. No, this scene was put in solely to depict the depth of their relationship with each other. Still doesn't mean they are thinking romantic thoughts though, not yet.
This is why, paradoxically, I enjoyed that J/T scene in Sateda so much. I thought it would be cringe-worthy shippy but it wasn't. If anything it re-enforces my wacky theory that maybe, just maybe, TPTB are writing J/E in as a canon ship in the long run. How did I get such a convoluted idea? Simply from the vibes given off by John and Teyla. It just didn't feel like UST to me, it was more like close friends, family in a tight situation. I can see why it can be viewed as shippy to some and why not? Everybody should enjoy their ship. It's just that, in all honesty, (and I'm really trying to be neutral here) I didn't see it as shippy but a great bonding moment. People may argue that the J/E "honour" scene was a bonding friendship moment too, and they'll be right. The difference, however, was that particular scene wasn't really needed but this scene was.
One more thing to add to this ramble which piqued my interest was that particular hesitation after John said to Teyla " Friends? there's you, Elizabeth (pause)....Ronon, Carson and even Rodney." It's that pause after he said Elizabeth's name, he quickly glanced at Teyla with a goofy little smile before continuing on that has got me intrigued. I'm not saying anymore about it because I'm erring on the side of being neutral, but, you know, I've got my own theories here.

Yikes!!!! That was a long ramble. Makes up for not posting for a while.

[Ronnikins]

Good grief! That last post took up more of my time than I thought.
I totally forgot to give my thoughts on TRW.

Spoiler:

I'm trying not have too high expectations for this one. It's Weir-centric and will provide quite a bit of angst for everybody, not just John. That said, we know John is not very good at verbalising his feelings. Canon. Therefore, I can easily picture him just quietly staring at her in her comatose state with a range of emotions flickering across his face. What they may be will be open to interpretation by different viewers. I know how I would interpret them.

Now, in my ideal Sparky world, John would quietly go the infirmary late at night, sit beside her, take her hand and just quietly talk to her about how she has to make it for everybody's sake. He won't focus on what he wants for himself because that would be too personal....Oh heck, who cares, it's my imagination, so he'll whisper in her ear that he needs her more than she would ever realise (there, you're happy Mel?)

[Bama]

Good grief! That last post took up more of my time than I thought.
I totally forgot to give my thoughts on TRW.

Spoiler:

I'm trying not have too high expectations for this one. It's Weir-centric and will provide quite a bit of angst for everybody, not just John. That said, we know John is not very good at verbalising his feelings. Canon. Therefore, I can easily picture him just quietly staring at her in her comatose state with a range of emotions flickering across his face. What they may be will be open to interpretation by different viewers. I know how I would interpret them.

Now, in my ideal Sparky world, John would quietly go the infirmary late at night, sit beside her, take her hand and just quietly talk to her about how she has to make it for everybody's sake. He won't focus on what he wants for himself because that would be too personal....Oh heck, who cares, it's my imagination, so he'll whisper in her ear that he needs her more than she would ever realise (there, you're happy Mel?)

I'm like you Ronnikins...I have *got* to lower my hopes for TRW and enjoy it for what it gives. I must admit though-and all you old fellow XF shippers can truly grasp this- I secretly harbor that this one is John and Elizabeth's 'Memento Mori' moment.

Spoiler:

John sitting by the bedside grasping Elizabeth's hand as he goes into a quiet, hidden emotional breakdown would literally send me into hyperventilation.

LOL

[Bama]

Spoiler:

I must confess I gritted my teeth before watching that J/T scene but lo and behold! I really, really enjoyed it.

LMAO! I'm glad someone else admitted to that so I didn't have to! That was *exactly* my reaction I think and after it was over, I was smiling and thinkin, 'hey, that's ok...that is actually good...'

Spoiler:

Anyway, it was only after this door was closed that things got more interesting. The J/E scenes got more overt. The balcony and desk scenes are some of the ones that come to mind. They are quite intimate scenes, one-on-one. (No, you naughty posters, that's not what I mean.) These scenes reflected the harmony, trust and deep friendship growing between these two.
OK, seguing back to the J/T scene in Sateda. This is the scene TPTB should have had in Season 1 if they wanted to set up a J/T pairing. If they kept this up then I would have seen the potential for such a ship. But they didn't. Instead they focused these types of scenes more with J/E in Season 2 and we hardly saw any J/T scenes for the same period.
Come Season 3, blatant non-plot related Sparky scenes in Misbegotten, oh no, we don't need no shipper glasses. I've decided not to squee over every little possible interaction between the two. Hence, moments considered squee-worthy in S1 and 2, I'm treating as just friendship moments in Season 3, such as standing very close together, calling each other by their first names, or even showing concern when they are in danger. This can all be put down to the very close friendship they have formed. No, the two scenes which stand out in my mind which can be considered Sparky were the debriefing scene and the "honour" office scene. Fair enough, for the first one it was a team bonding scene and Elizabeth could be said to have gotten all emotional about seeing ALL of them alive again. It was the intensity of John's stare and his later emotional "choking up" that took me completely by surprise. I wasn't expecting it and it lasted for an eternity for a TV show. This was re-enforced in the office scene which I pointed out before as being a totally unnecessary scene plot-wise since all the exposition was covered by earlier ones or could have have been covered by other characters. No, this scene was put in solely to depict the depth of their relationship with each other. Still doesn't mean they are thinking romantic thoughts though, not yet.
This is why, paradoxically, I enjoyed that J/T scene in Sateda so much. I thought it would be cringe-worthy shippy but it wasn't. If anything it re-enforces my wacky theory that maybe, just maybe, TPTB are writing J/E in as a canon ship in the long run. How did I get such a convoluted idea? Simply from the vibes given off by John and Teyla. It just didn't feel like UST to me,

ITA. John hasn't really had sexual tension with Teyla imo since very, very early in S1 when I think he was solely reacting to her physical appearance the way any single male would the first time a pretty, buxom young woman crossed his path. As he's gotten to know Teyla and accepted her as a teammate any UST disapated quickly and has been replaced by the family/friendship/teammate vibe we all felt so thick in Sateda. John and Teyla have been on missions together many, many times with many ops to show UST together and yet, we've see nothing of the sort. Conversely, J/E started out very professionally and in argument but as time has gone on, we've seen more and more UST beginning to emerge as you so rightly point out.

Spoiler:

it was more like close friends, family in a tight situation. I can see why it can be viewed as shippy to some and why not? Everybody should enjoy their ship. It's just that, in all honesty, (and I'm really trying to be neutral here) I didn't see it as shippy but a great bonding moment. People may argue that the J/E "honour" scene was a bonding friendship moment too, and they'll be right. The difference, however, was that particular scene wasn't really needed but this scene was.

Spoiler:

The bonding scene was what it was. It wasn't flirty in comparsion with the 'honor' scene but it was fun in that John made such a total gob mess of the teamlove feelings Ronon brought to the surface and intuitive!Teyla was jabbing him as she cleaned it up and clarified it for him.

[Ronnikins]

I'm like you Ronnikins...I have *got* to lower my hopes for TRW and enjoy it for what it gives. I must admit though-and all you old fellow XF shippers can truly grasp this- I secretly harbor that this one is John and Elizabeth's 'Memento Mori' moment.

Spoiler:

John sitting by the bedside grasping Elizabeth's hand as he goes into a quiet, hidden emotional breakdown would literally send me into hyperventilation.

LOL

Heehee!!! You got me totally confused for a moment. I thought you were refering to S10 Sg:1 episode "Memento Mori" coming up soon. I couldn't work out whether you meant

Spoiler:

Vala losing her memory and the others trying to search for her or BB's comments:

# "Mitchell is handcuffed to a bed with Vala standing over him. That's pretty much all you need to know. Watch for the scene."
(Actor Ben Browder, in an interview with TV Zone magazine (#203))

Now that would be interesting.......

then I realised you meant The X-Files episode.

[Bama]

Heehee!!! You got me totally confused for a moment. I thought you were refering to S10 Sg:1 episode "Memento Mori" coming up soon. I couldn't work out whether you meant

Spoiler:

Vala losing her memory and the others trying to search for her or BB's comments:

# "Mitchell is handcuffed to a bed with Vala standing over him. That's pretty much all you need to know. Watch for the scene."
(Actor Ben Browder, in an interview with TV Zone magazine (#203))

Now that would be interesting.......

then I realised you meant The X-Files episode.

LOL! SG-1 naming a Vala bedroom 'fun' ep after *that* particular X-files emotional cataclysm watershed ep is just downright...sacralige!

[Ronnikins]

OMG!!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY FOOLISH PLEASURE!!!!!!!!!

Here, have some ice cream cake (no, it's not mint).

ETA: Couple of Sparky vids from sparky4ever:
Pearl Harbour and Too Lost In You

Enjoy!

[Stef]

Heehee!!! You got me totally confused for a moment. I thought you were refering to S10 Sg:1 episode "Memento Mori" coming up soon. I couldn't work out whether you meant

Spoiler:

Vala losing her memory and the others trying to search for her or BB's comments:

# "Mitchell is handcuffed to a bed with Vala standing over him. That's pretty much all you need to know. Watch for the scene."
(Actor Ben Browder, in an interview with TV Zone magazine (#203))

Now that would be interesting.......

then I realised you meant The X-Files episode.

Wha-,Wha-, What?! I may just have to tune into SG-1 for that episode. I can pretend I'm watching "Farscape."

And I know it's been noted once but is it just me or does Elizabeth get prettier by the ep this year? Leather is a wonderful thing on our flyboy too.

Yes, I was noticing that. She looks beautiful this season (not that she didn't look great every other year). I think the longer hair gives her a more feminine/romantic look...which I like. Whatever's going on, they should keep it up. Between her and John in the leather...no couple could look hotter.

As for the gazes, they do have a huge amount. I am working on a video at the moment and have been looking through episodes and about 90% of the stuff I have is looks. They definitely prescribe to the whole eye-sex thing which I think works. Yeah, I'd love more physical moments but John has never been a touchy-feely person, all of his emotions/feelings are pretty much expressed his eyes and his actions and the fact that he stares at Elizabeth all of the time shows how much he cares. Or maybe that's just me....

-Stef

[LurkerLa]

Happy Birthday Foolish Pleasure! Eat lots and lots of mint cake!

[RoryJ]

Did I hear birthday? HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Don't OD on the mints, FP!

And thank you all very much for your kind comments on my last vid. Now I come bearing another one! This one was just a heck of a good time to make, so I hope y'all enjoy it. (BTW, you're not crazy if you think that I spelled the word "affiliation" wrong . . . grrr.)

Spendspace link is here. Also posted at the LJ community.

[Melyanna]

Happy birthday, FP! Many minty returns and all that.

Ronnikins, I have to say, I was skimming that first post of yours and thinking "Where's the part about The Real World? That's what I was interested in!"

I admit, I really, really need to ratchet down my expectations for it... But honestly, I've got a good feeling about it as a Weir episode and as a Shep/Weir episode. And my good feelings have a good track record thus far.

Maybe we need some kind of support group that'll come up with all the ways this episode could go wrong, so we can soften the inevitable blow?