Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Melyanna]

There are some anti-Ronon ones, unfortunately. Thankfully most people in here choose to not create any new anti threads and ignore the other anti-threads. It is just mean-spirited to me.

I liked "Allies" better the second time I watched it. I don't understand why some people blame Elizabeth for everything as she was constantly asking others if things were "safe" or if this or that would work. A leader has to depend on his/her staff (with the technical knowledge) to provide accurate information as that is how they base their decisions.

Spoiler:

If McKay had said the firewall wasn't in place but Liz said to download the Wraith info anyway, THEN I would say she made a poor decision.

You know, when the episode first aired, my only real problem is that Elizabeth wasn't actively seeking out other answers. But this is probably symptomatic of her leadership in general. She expects her advisors to come to her, and when they have other ideas, they do. For the most part, badgering doesn't work with these guys. (With, of course, the notable exception of Rodney, who occasionally needs a kick in the pants.) So Allies, in that respect, certainly wasn't out of character for her. But as I said at the time (I think? I've had a long week and a half ), no one was coming to her with another idea. If someone had, I'm almost positive she would have jumped on it.

But as Hatcheter said at some point in here, we've only got half the story at this point. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out on Friday.

Friday? FRIDAY!



(And Persephone? That sig is too cute. )

[Pocus]

You know, when the episode first aired, my only real problem is that Elizabeth wasn't actively seeking out other answers. But this is probably symptomatic of her leadership in general. She expects her advisors to come to her, and when they have other ideas, they do. For the most part, badgering doesn't work with these guys. (With, of course, the notable exception of Rodney, who occasionally needs a kick in the pants.) So Allies, in that respect, certainly wasn't out of character for her. But as I said at the time (I think? I've had a long week and a half ), no one was coming to her with another idea. If someone had, I'm almost positive she would have jumped on it.

But as Hatcheter said at some point in here, we've only got half the story at this point. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out on Friday.

Friday? FRIDAY!




(And Persephone? That sig is too cute. )

Good to see you back.

I've missed your wonderful insights!

[Melyanna]

Good to see you back.

I've missed your wonderful insights!

Heheh, thanks. I was on vacation for a while and took a break from the internet almost entirely while I was at it. Partly because for a few days, I was with family who don't have internet. It's good to be back, but it was good to take a break too. And I'm also really glad you guys went on with the Allies discussion. There's so much to that one that I thought it in particular would benefit from a discussion long after the first viewing.

...and as I've got little of substance to contribute at this point, I'll shut up now.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Good to see ya back Mel! I haven't seen "Allies" in quite sometime, so I can't comment on specifics, but I have to say the notion that Weir is entirely to blame (that I've seen floating around) is pretty ridiculous. She made decisions based on available information and advice. I think Mel's point is spot on as well. Weir tends to allow people to come to her with suggestions rather than put them on the spot (as Hammond might have) which in this situation, was probably not the best course of action. I also think S2 has been building up to this point. She, and the entiore Atlantis team, have become a little cocky after narrowly escaping and defeating death so many times.

There is actually a great vid by EraYachi using a song called "Blame" (found at youtube here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vJd...lantis%20Blame . The lyric intones "we've gone from pride to shame and we're all to blame". It's very angsty (and grungy for lack of a better word lol), but it does reflect the situation in Atlantis to some degree and with all these "anti" threads floating around trying to blame one character for this and another for that I htink it's worth a listen. Valid discussion is one thing, but turning the thread into a complete bash opportunity (ala Anti Weir and McKay--there was already an anti-Weir thread!). Not to mention the "blame" accusation as a reason for hating a character. That just doesn't make sense! Characters make mistakes if they didn't, we'd have no show!

Night all,
Royal

[hopalong]

Okay, here is my latest wallpaper. I've put it in spoiler tags because there's and image from 'The Long Goodbye', and that's the rules (though I can pretty much guess that most of you know which image I'm talking about).

Spoiler:

All these "drabbles" (I use the term loosely, I'm sure they all have more than words ) are fun to read. Scary, but fun. And a word to the wise about mine: the metaphor like the poet who needs the pain I didn't actually come up with. The generator asked for a metaphor, and thats what popped into my head. It's actually from a bon Jovi song, but I can't for the like of me remember which one at the moment.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Okay, here is my latest wallpaper. I've put it in spoiler tags because there's and image from 'The Long Goodbye', and that's the rules (though I can pretty much guess that most of you know which image I'm talking about).

Spoiler:

All these "drabbles" (I use the term loosely, I'm sure they all have more than words ) are fun to read. Scary, but fun. And a word to the wise about mine: the metaphor like the poet who needs the pain I didn't actually come up with. The generator asked for a metaphor, and thats what popped into my head. It's actually from a bon Jovi song, but I can't for the like of me remember which one at the moment.

Nice paper hopalong--I like the oceanic background. From a Bon Jovi song? I love his stuff (not sure which one that comes form either), there really should be a Shep/Weir vid with his music (don't think I've seen one)

EDIT: Came across this interview (I didn't see it posted here today). It's an interview with Rachel Lutrell. She discusses love interestes a little bit and mentions the corssovers:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds34724.html


Night all,
Royal

[Ruined_puzzle]

Royal_Nonesuch thanks for the link, will post it at the Teyla/Ronon thread.
I have finally seen the famous line that some people were talking about. I see nothing but very vague remarks. Certainly nothing that confirms any ship.

[hopalong]

Nice paper hopalong--I like the oceanic background. From a Bon Jovi song? I love his stuff (not sure which one that comes form either), there really should be a Shep/Weir vid with his music (don't think I've seen one)

I just googled it, it comes from the song 'In These Arms'. It's on the Crossroads CD, but I don't know which album it was originally on.

Edit: Just noticed that this is my 400th post. Wow, I never thought I'd get that far!

[Trialia]

I have finally seen the famous line that some people were talking about. I see nothing but very vague remarks. Certainly nothing that confirms any ship.

If you're talking about

Spoiler:

"She cares for you more than you know"... although I doubt from what you said that you are... in context, I don't think that comes over as 'shippy or would feel right even if it were said to Elizabeth and not Teyla. It just doesn't work that way-- it's a blatant attempt from Thalan to stop Teyla from shooting him, and an equally blatant attempt from TPTB to jerk the 'shippers around. As such, it's pretty irritating.

[Southern Red]

If you're talking about

Spoiler:

"She cares for you more than you know"... although I doubt from what you said that you are... in context, I don't think that comes over as 'shippy or would feel right even if it were said to Elizabeth and not Teyla. It just doesn't work that way-- it's a blatant attempt from Thalan to stop Teyla from shooting him, and an equally blatant attempt from TPTB to jerk the 'shippers around. As such, it's pretty irritating.

Maybe she's talking about this line:" There's an angle that has been touched on right now, which is love interests. It's always been toyed with for a couple of seasons." I see I'm not the only one who doesn't take my own advice and stay away from rumors. Misquoting seems to be an art lately, and this particular statement has been used to prove Sheyla will be canon in S3. I guess they didn't notice the plural form of the word "interests". again.

The facts are ladies and gents that we know nothing. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Until we see the actual episodes we'll still know nothing. Remember some of the things we heard last year about how TLG would play out?

Spoiler:

Torri even said at a con that she would get to kick Joe's butt. Didn't happen.

And remember all the detail about Epiphany that turned out to be wrong? We are at that same point again, only this time we have relatively little Sparky info which makes us apprehensive and fearful. And God help us, several more cons are coming up with the potential for more loaded questions that make it impossible for the actors to give any answer but the one the questioner wants. *Some of these people should be in politics.* Remember also that it was the shows in S2 from which we had little expectation that turned out to have some great Sparky moments. I read something interesting on LJ recently about how TPTB in the Stargate franchise historically pay the most attention to the largest groups of fans with the Sparky fangroup being given as a current example. Let's just hope that person was correct.

I think no matter what happens that it is important that we try to keep this thread very active which will make our presence known and get the attention of whomever is lurking. Everything I've heard tells me that they will continue to play with the shippers in S3, and I have a theory about one rumor in particular.

RL recently said that she filmed a scene in which she tells what sounds like a guy who is interested in her (not Ronon or John) that she is interested in someone else. If she was quoted correctly, she seemed to indicate that she has not been told who that person is. I've known shows that actually filmed something more than one way to keep info from getting out. I would not put it past these people to do just that. I don't think they have made up their minds yet. And I think our reaction to what happens in S3 will go a long way towards helping them make that decision.

I think if we continue to be the class act we have been most of the time, we can help them with their final choice. And if they decide to do the opposite of what we want, that's their choice. The object here, at least for me, is to have fun. When it stops being fun or gets too ridiculous to be believable, I'll be moving on.

[Elmindreda]

I haven't seen the whole episode in a while, but when I first watched Allies, I remember....

Spoiler:

being irritated by the fact that Teyla didn't speak up more in the meeting, but then told John just moments later how uncomfortable she was with the situation and how many doubts she had. In my head (I couldn't do it for real, because my hubby would look at me like I was nuts!) I rolled my eyes and threw up my hands and talked to the TV, "Why couldn't you say that 5 minutes ago???!!"

I was also a bit non-plussed with the John/McKay/Ronon in peril/missing/presumed dead ending of the ep. Didn't we just see that? More than once this season? I know that they have to create some sort of dramatic tension for the cliffhanger, but these three guys have been in this situation too often for it to be a surprising plot twist or cliffhanger, IMO. Also, they are all listed in the opening credits! There's really not too much surprise or drama involved, since we already know they'll be back.

I actually liked the ep. overall, but these two moments stick out to me as points the writers could have handled better.

[FoolishPleasure]

I've known shows that actually filmed something more than one way to keep info from getting out. I would not put it past these people to do just that. I don't think they have made up their minds yet. And I think our reaction to what happens in S3 will go a long way towards helping them make that decision.

More info on this take:

In "Grace Under Pressure"

Spoiler:

Lt. Cadman was the one with Rodney in the puddlejumper and who sacrifices herself. But with Cadman's popularity after "Duet", the writers decided to change the character to a red shirt and make Cadman recurring.

"Critical Mass". . .

Spoiler:

Original teasers had a scientist named Allison who Sheppard flirted with, and who may or may not have been involved in the bomb. Again, after Cadman became a hit in "Duet", the writers completely removed the Allison character and rewrote the part to bring back Cadman.

These are a few I can think of off the top of my head but I believe there were a few others as well. It shows that the writers DO change scripts AFTER filming begins according to how the audience reacts to situations and/or characters.

Nothing is set in concrete until we actually see it happen.

[Melyanna]

I haven't seen the whole episode in a while, but when I first watched Allies, I remember....

Spoiler:

being irritated by the fact that Teyla didn't speak up more in the meeting, but then told John just moments later how uncomfortable she was with the situation and how many doubts she had. In my head (I couldn't do it for real, because my hubby would look at me like I was nuts!) I rolled my eyes and threw up my hands and talked to the TV, "Why couldn't you say that 5 minutes ago???!!"

I was also a bit non-plussed with the John/McKay/Ronon in peril/missing/presumed dead ending of the ep. Didn't we just see that? More than once this season? I know that they have to create some sort of dramatic tension for the cliffhanger, but these three guys have been in this situation too often for it to be a surprising plot twist or cliffhanger, IMO. Also, they are all listed in the opening credits! There's really not too much surprise or drama involved, since we already know they'll be back.

I actually liked the ep. overall, but these two moments stick out to me as points the writers could have handled better.

Allies...

Spoiler:

In some ways I liked the first scene you mentioned and in some ways I didn't. I like that Teyla was standing up for something rather than being passive about it, but I wish we'd seen her do it in the first place, back in Michael. I'd like to see some passion out of her sometime. But I also like the role she's filling these days, as the antagonist for Sheppard. It's a surprisingly natural role, given how badly it worked when they tried it with Elizabeth or with Rodney. Their ideologies are just different enough to make it work, where that just wasn't possible with John and Elizabeth. They were always too close.

As for the cliffhanger... well, writers will be writers. We never learn.

[Ronnikins]

Maybe she's talking about this line:" There's an angle that has been touched on right now, which is love interests. It's always been toyed with for a couple of seasons." I see I'm not the only one who doesn't take my own advice and stay away from rumors. Misquoting seems to be an art lately, and this particular statement has been used to prove Sheyla will be canon in S3. I guess they didn't notice the plural form of the word "interests". again.

The facts are ladies and gents that we know nothing. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Until we see the actual episodes we'll still know nothing.
I think if we continue to be the class act we have been most of the time, we can help them with their final choice. And if they decide to do the opposite of what we want, that's their choice. The object here, at least for me, is to have fun. When it stops being fun or gets too ridiculous to be believable, I'll be moving on.

*nods head vigorously*

Hear ye, Southern Red speaketh the truth.

We can have lots of fun (or not, depending on which rumour) speculating on what will happen in Season 3, but until we see with our own itty-bitty eyes then nothing is canon.
So, using the yardstick of "less Sparky in spoilers/rumours" = "more Sparky in canon" and vice versa, then the predictions would be

Spoiler:

the "emotional support" John provides in "The Real World" would be nothing more than popping his head around the infirmary curtain and saying "still out cold huh?" before going to the canteen for a turkey sandwich. Which means all other episodes are full of Sparky since we've got NOTHING at all!

[Southern Red]

*nods head vigorously*

Hear ye, Southern Red speaketh the truth.

We can have lots of fun (or not, depending on which rumour) speculating on what will happen in Season 3, but until we see with our own itty-bitty eyes then nothing is canon.
So, using the yardstick of "less Sparky in spoilers/rumours" = "more Sparky in canon" and vice versa, then the predictions would be

Spoiler:

the "emotional support" John provides in "The Real World" would be nothing more than popping his head around the infirmary curtain and saying "still out cold huh?" before going to the canteen for a turkey sandwich. Which means all other episodes are full of Sparky since we've got NOTHING at all!

Oh, I love the way you think. And in Sunday

Spoiler:

Liz's date will be a guy poking his head in her office and saying, "I'm heading down to the mess hall, wanna come along?" And Teyla's confession of feelings will be her telling someone that *insert name here* doesn't suck too much.

And with that, I'm off to the dentist.