John Sheppard Discussion/Appreciation

[vaberella]

I liked Michael. My only complaint, because it's a long standing one, is I don't like eps where the guest star gets the SL and all the good stuff. I'd give my right arm for the writers to give an ep like that to Shep. So that was a negative aspect for me. BUt otherwise I love where they went with it and I'm surprised by how many people didn't like it.

Oh..I also thought, per usual, they missed a great chance to have more done with Michael and Shep. Shep was the reverse of Michael. I wanted them to explore that more. Heck..Teyla gets Critical Mass and Michael ep for character developement. Shep gets....erm. Yeah..right. Nothing. ::sighs::

I can't fully agree..there have been several episodes that surround around Shep...problem you have to realize is that there are double standards.

Shep get's all the girls and we have tons of episodes where he's the focal point, saving the day on his own, and a girl at his side. While the women get something to keep them afloat, barely.

And as for development....I mean Sheps easily read throughout the last two seasons....you definitely see how his mind works and the kind of person he is...if your wondering about a more anti-hero Shep...look at 'Lost Boys'....

I mean Shep was out control, he was sacrificing his teammates for what?! Really....that's an integral part in this. I mean I love my Shep...but I thought it was a great episode, because it shows how unperfect he is. Greater good and all that. And to me that was some serious character development. Then there was the main one of 'Rising' and killing his CO.

Then we have his personalty in The Siege and Hot Zone and various others...where he'd be a great marine if I ever saw one, and you get snippets of him. While Teyla has been missed on episodes, Shep has been in every single episode! 'Grace Under Pressure' comes to mind, which was supposed to be about McKay..we get Shep the hero...albeit I had me my Zalenka, who was wicked as well.

All I'm saying is that we get what? 3 episodes of Teyla and Michael can't even really be about Teyla it looked more like filler to me, It definitely involved a focus on Weir and Beckett and who they are, and their problems with what they've done or are doing.

I think we get an awed Teyla (seeing a human who's now Wraith) and she gets to end up on the planet, mainly because she can tap into 'Wraith psychic network'.

PS...I wanted to mention Condemned..but I wasn't sure what he meant about that....I definitely stand by Lost Boys though. And then of course 'The Hive'.

PS2: LOve this thread..I love it when we can definitely discuss the parallels of a character and or characters and their relation to said character within the show....

[Merlin7]

I can't fully agree..there have been several episodes that surround around Shep...problem you have to realize is that there are double standards.

Shep get's all the girls and we have tons of episodes where he's the focal point, saving the day on his own, and a girl at his side. While the women get something to keep them afloat, barely.

And as for development....I mean Sheps easily read throughout the last two seasons....you definitely see how his mind works and the kind of person he is...if your wondering about a more anti-hero Shep...look at 'Lost Boys'....

I mean Shep was out control, he was sacrificing his teammates for what?! Really....that's an integral part in this. I mean I love my Shep...but I thought it was a great episode, because it shows how unperfect he is. Greater good and all that. And to me that was some serious character development. Then there was the main one of 'Rising' and killing his CO.

Then we have his personalty in The Siege and Hot Zone and various others...where he'd be a great marine if I ever saw one, and you get snippets of him. While Teyla has been missed on episodes, Shep has been in every single episode! 'Grace Under Pressure' comes to mind, which was supposed to be about McKay..we get Shep the hero...albeit I had me my Zalenka, who was wicked as well.

All I'm saying is that we get what? 3 episodes of Teyla and Michael can't even really be about Teyla it looked more like filler to me, It definitely involved a focus on Weir and Beckett and who they are, and their problems with what they've done or are doing.

I think we get an awed Teyla (seeing a human who's now Wraith) and she gets to end up on the planet, mainly because she can tap into 'Wraith psychic network'.

PS...I wanted to mention Condemned..but I wasn't sure what he meant about that....I definitely stand by Lost Boys though. And then of course 'The Hive'.

PS2: LOve this thread..I love it when we can definitely discuss the parallels of a character and or characters and their relation to said character within the show....

But we don't get an ep like Michael for Shep. Hence my point. I know we get Shep on screen. Half the time it's nothing but to show the pretty. NOt that I mind that, but I want him to get something meaningful. Something that really shows/explores him. Point out ONE EP that does that and I'll go watch the ep I missed.

Sure there have been tidbits of Shep. But I want an ep, like ROdney got DUET/TRINITY and GRACE. All about Shep. Showing us Shep. LIke Michael got Micheal. There was more revealed about Teyla in Micheal and Critical, filler or not, than any ep for Shep. He never gets that kind of attention. Do I know he's gorgeous and attracts women and can shoot a gun and wise crack? Yes. I don't want/need ep after ep of that. I need/want more. Shep deserves it, I deserve it and so does Joe. LOL

See..it's not about QUANTITY Time, it's QUALITY time. I still know more about everyone, now Micheal in a way, than I do Shep. That's my gripe and until TPTB give me a real SHEP EP, I won't stop complaing about it. Rehashing the same moments/things I know about Shep, and having him stand around being his Beautiful self is something I'd give up for some real substance/meat. But...I'm just kidding myself. That will never happen cause Shep isn't Mckay. Heck..apparently we even get McKay's sister next year. But no stuff mentioned about Shep. ::Crawls into corner and cries:: And rightfully so. I had high hopes of good Shep stuff this season and got whacked upside the head with NOTHING!

So...I expect next year will suck worse.

Mind you. I adore every Shep moment. Thanks to Joe. He's a freaking fantastic actor. And I love it when he does his soldier thing. His awkwardness with women. Kissing. Facing bad guys. Snarking with McKay and rescuing people. But not one bit of it, other than the little moment in EPIPHANY when we learn he has abandoment issues. Nothing else was anything new from season one. :obs some more::

[Linzi]

But we don't get an ep like Michael for Shep. Hence my point. I know we get Shep on screen. Half the time it's nothing but to show the pretty. NOt that I mind that, but I want him to get something meaningful. Something that really shows/explores him. Point out ONE EP that does that and I'll go watch the ep I missed.

Sure there have been tidbits of Shep. But I want an ep, like ROdney got DUET/TRINITY and GRACE. All about Shep. Showing us Shep. LIke Michael got Micheal. There was more revealed about Teyla in Micheal and Critical, filler or not, than any ep for Shep. He never gets that kind of attention. Do I know he's gorgeous and attracts women and can shoot a gun and wise crack? Yes. I don't want/need ep after ep of that. I need/want more. Shep deserves it, I deserve it and so does Joe. LOL

See..it's not about QUANTITY Time, it's QUALITY time. I still know more about everyone, now Micheal in a way, than I do Shep. That's my gripe and until TPTB give me a real SHEP EP, I won't stop complaing about it. Rehashing the same moments/things I know about Shep, and having him stand around being his Beautiful self is something I'd give up for some real substance/meat. But...I'm just kidding myself. That will never happen cause Shep isn't Mckay. Heck..apparently we even get McKay's sister next year. But no stuff mentioned about Shep. ::Crawls into corner and cries:: And rightfully so. I had high hopes of good Shep stuff this season and got whacked upside the head with NOTHING!

So...I expect next year will suck worse.

Mind you. I adore every Shep moment. Thanks to Joe. He's a freaking fantastic actor. And I love it when he does his soldier thing. His awkwardness with women. Kissing. Facing bad guys. Snarking with McKay and rescuing people. But not one bit of it, other than the little moment in EPIPHANY when we learn he has abandoment issues. Nothing else was anything new from season one. :obs some more::

Word.
I want a sort of story arc for Sheppard. He sort of had one in Instinct/Conversion, but that's the only one.
Sheppard is heroic and smart and funny. We know that. He also can be dark, unpredictable, yet loyal and single-minded. I want to see more of the latter for Shep. I want him to REALLY be pushed to his limit, to really suffer and have to use all of his skills to survive, whether it's physically or mentally I really don't mind.That would tell me more about him.
I adore Shep all the time. That's thanks to Joe's acting. He makes the littlest things stand out for me. He's a subtle actor, not the in your face type and I prefer that anyday.
He received criticism from some for his performance in TLG, and I don't see why.Yes, his performance was different from Torri Higginson's but I think that was a good thing. If he had acted the same way as she did the whole episode would have ended up like a dodgy pantomime! His subtlety was vital to the plot, IMO, and was a good contrast. Some people just seem to have to have things shoved in their faces,which is fine, but me, I prefer laid back, subtle acting, it just seems much more realistic to me. If I think to myself, wow that's acting, I feel it's not working. You should never feel someone's acting, IMO, as if you do feel that,it's obviously not successful.
We also know Shep likes pretty girls. Well, why wouldn't he? That should not be what he's all about though, that should be just a small part of who the character is. I do think that, again, this aspect of him has been totally taken out of proportion and everytime the guy stands next to a pretty woman he's accused of molesting her! I don't think he's that bad - yet. Thing is, it seems to me that TPTB at Skiffy want to play up this sexy image. BSG can be quite graphic sexually, even SG1 has been sexed up, SGA has too. It's to attract the key demographics the advertisers want, IMO. So I don't reckon Shep will settle down anytime soon!
The snarking between Sheppard and McKay is my favourite part of the show. The two characters have the best chemistry on the show, and are the best actors too, IMO, by a long way. Though I'm very fond of Zelenka and Beckett.
I feel that has been put on the sidelines a bit this season. I was hoping for more Shep and McKay getting themselves into trouble again, a la Underground and Defiant One, though we had a little of that in Aurora, which was one of my favourite episodes this season. I watched it and just felt the show was back on track.Not that I didn't enjoy Sheppard in the first half of this season, I did tremendously. The second half has been more hit and miss for me, but I haven't seen two episodes I'm dying to see, yet. Coup D'Etat
and Inferno. So I may feel more positive when I've seen those.
God, I hope season 3 dosn't suck Merlin.

[smallgirl]

We also know Shep likes pretty girls. Well, why wouldn't he? That should not be what he's all about though, that should be just a small part of who the character is. I do think that, again, this aspect of him has been totally taken out of proportion and everytime the guy stands next to a pretty woman he's accused of molesting her! I don't think he's that bad - yet.

Word!

Admittedly I haven't got as far as THE TOWER yet but I haven't seen the 'Kirking' that everyone has been freaking out about. I like the flirtatous side of Sheppard's character. I found the way it was played by Joe in season one and so far in season two appealing. He doesn't come on strong, there is no unflattering egotism involved. I enjoyed EPIPHANY because I was already spoiled, and knew there wasn't going to be backstory that had been suggested previously, so I was able to just concentrate on what was there rather than what wasn't. The romance with Teer didn't bother me but like with SANCTUARY (which is my least favourite season one ep) I found the female character boring. I don't mind Shep and pretty girls now and again, I just wish they would be as interesting as they are pretty.

Thing is, it seems to me that TPTB at Skiffy want to play up this sexy image. BSG can be quite graphic sexually, even SG1 has been sexed up, SGA has too. It's to attract the key demographics the advertisers want, IMO. So I don't reckon Shep will settle down anytime soon!

If they want to do that fine but BSG's graphic sexuality has a point to it. I am not a big SIX fan but she is integral to the show and pretty much all the of the sexy stuff on BSG has been about advancing plot and deepening characterisation. Most shows can't say that. The advertisers get their sexy images to attract the demographic and the fans get their good stories and character development and one doesn't detract from the other. They can hire the hottest actresses they can find for SGA to hook up, occasionally, with Shep or any of the other characters but it wouldn't hurt to make sure their acting matches their looks and to put real effort into creating interesting characters for them to play that help advance the development of the male characters involved. Sheppard is intelligent eye candy so the eye candy they pair him with should be just as smart and interesting.

The snarking between Sheppard and McKay is my favourite part of the show. The two characters have the best chemistry on the show, and are the best actors too, IMO, by a long way. Though I'm very fond of Zelenka and Beckett.

The Shep/McKay snark was definitely my favourite aspect of season one and although I don't mind the focus elsewhere a bit in season two, allowing other characters to shine, I have missed it and sometimes it has been sidelined for stuff that isn't very interesting. I love McKay/Shep, McKay/Zelenka and McKay/Beckett in terms of banter and snark but McKay solo or McKay with a character that feeds his ego rather than balancing it, is not so good. DUET was too much for me and the McKay/Cadmen stuff in CRITICAL MASS I could have lived without. They don't want to spoil the fun that there is to had with a character like McKay by letting him become a parody of himself. Shep, to me, so far in season two has been successfully used to help us learn more about several of the other characters on the show but the same hasn't been done for him. We've learnt a lot more about Weir, quite a bit about McKay and even a little about Ronon and Teyla through Shep but it hasn't happened the other way around. He advances plot a lot and characterisation quite a bit but he's supposed to be the lead not a prop.

[Merlin7]

Word!

Admittedly I haven't got as far as THE TOWER yet but I haven't seen the 'Kirking' that everyone has been freaking out about. I like the flirtatous side of Sheppard's character. I found the way it was played by Joe in season one and so far in season two appealing. He doesn't come on strong, there is no unflattering egotism involved. I enjoyed EPIPHANY because I was already spoiled, and knew there wasn't going to be backstory that had been suggested previously, so I was able to just concentrate on what was there rather than what wasn't. The romance with Teer didn't bother me but like with SANCTUARY (which is my least favourite season one ep) I found the female character boring. I don't mind Shep and pretty girls now and again, I just wish they would be as interesting as they are pretty.



If they want to do that fine but BSG's graphic sexuality has a point to it. I am not a big SIX fan but she is integral to the show and pretty much all the of the sexy stuff on BSG has been about advancing plot and deepening characterisation. Most shows can't say that. The advertisers get their sexy images to attract the demographic and the fans get their good stories and character development and one doesn't detract from the other. They can hire the hottest actresses they can find for SGA to hook up, occasionally, with Shep or any of the other characters but it wouldn't hurt to make sure their acting matches their looks and to put real effort into creating interesting characters for them to play that help advance the development of the male characters involved. Sheppard is intelligent eye candy so the eye candy they pair him with should be just as smart and interesting.



The Shep/McKay snark was definitely my favourite aspect of season one and although I don't mind the focus elsewhere a bit in season two, allowing other characters to shine, I have missed it and sometimes it has been sidelined for stuff that isn't very interesting. I love McKay/Shep, McKay/Zelenka and McKay/Beckett in terms of banter and snark but McKay solo or McKay with a character that feeds his ego rather than balancing it, is not so good. DUET was too much for me and the McKay/Cadmen stuff in CRITICAL MASS I could have lived without. They don't want to spoil the fun that there is to had with a character like McKay by letting him become a parody of himself. Shep, to me, so far in season two has been successfully used to help us learn more about several of the other characters on the show but the same hasn't been done for him. We've learnt a lot more about Weir, quite a bit about McKay and even a little about Ronon and Teyla through Shep but it hasn't happened the other way around. He advances plot a lot and characterisation quite a bit but he's supposed to be the lead not a prop.

I had a longer reply and realized...Heh...why? You said everything I was going to say already. So....WORD.

[Merlin7]

Word.
I want a sort of story arc for Sheppard. He sort of had one in Instinct/Conversion, but that's the only one.
Sheppard is heroic and smart and funny. We know that. He also can be dark, unpredictable, yet loyal and single-minded. I want to see more of the latter for Shep. I want him to REALLY be pushed to his limit, to really suffer and have to use all of his skills to survive, whether it's physically or mentally I really don't mind.That would tell me more about him.
I adore Shep all the time. That's thanks to Joe's acting. He makes the littlest things stand out for me. He's a subtle actor, not the in your face type and I prefer that anyday.
He received criticism from some for his performance in TLG, and I don't see why.Yes, his performance was different from Torri Higginson's but I think that was a good thing. If he had acted the same way as she did the whole episode would have ended up like a dodgy pantomime! His subtlety was vital to the plot, IMO, and was a good contrast. Some people just seem to have to have things shoved in their faces,which is fine, but me, I prefer laid back, subtle acting, it just seems much more realistic to me. If I think to myself, wow that's acting, I feel it's not working. You should never feel someone's acting, IMO, as if you do feel that,it's obviously not successful.
We also know Shep likes pretty girls. Well, why wouldn't he? That should not be what he's all about though, that should be just a small part of who the character is. I do think that, again, this aspect of him has been totally taken out of proportion and everytime the guy stands next to a pretty woman he's accused of molesting her! I don't think he's that bad - yet. Thing is, it seems to me that TPTB at Skiffy want to play up this sexy image. BSG can be quite graphic sexually, even SG1 has been sexed up, SGA has too. It's to attract the key demographics the advertisers want, IMO. So I don't reckon Shep will settle down anytime soon!
The snarking between Sheppard and McKay is my favourite part of the show. The two characters have the best chemistry on the show, and are the best actors too, IMO, by a long way. Though I'm very fond of Zelenka and Beckett.
I feel that has been put on the sidelines a bit this season. I was hoping for more Shep and McKay getting themselves into trouble again, a la Underground and Defiant One, though we had a little of that in Aurora, which was one of my favourite episodes this season. I watched it and just felt the show was back on track.Not that I didn't enjoy Sheppard in the first half of this season, I did tremendously. The second half has been more hit and miss for me, but I haven't seen two episodes I'm dying to see, yet. Coup D'Etat
and Inferno. So I may feel more positive when I've seen those.
God, I hope season 3 dosn't suck Merlin.

Word about TLG stuff, Linzi. Course, we've talked about that. I love Zelenka too and I love Beckett and Shep moments. Course, I love Shep moments with everyone. Joe has a great chemistry with everyone and he plays it differently with each character which makes great viewing.

I adored Aurora. That, Conversion and INFERNO are my fave eps of season 2.

More of that please. I want Season 3 to be great, but we got nothing for Shep in season 2. Nothing with the gene and Shep. Shep and Atlantis. I want that. And not just for Shep. I want Atlantis explored. Period. :outs:: LOL

[Linzi]

Word about TLG stuff, Linzi. Course, we've talked about that. I love Zelenka too and I love Beckett and Shep moments. Course, I love Shep moments with everyone. Joe has a great chemistry with everyone and he plays it differently with each character which makes great viewing.

I adored Aurora. That, Conversion and INFERNO are my fave eps of season 2.

More of that please. I want Season 3 to be great, but we got nothing for Shep in season 2. Nothing with the gene and Shep. Shep and Atlantis. I want that. And not just for Shep. I want Atlantis explored. Period. :outs:: LOL

I must admit the exclusion of the importance of Sheppard's gene has been a missed oportunity in season 2, and a great disappointment to me. I was looking forward to seeing Sheppard interact more with Atlantis the city, and am very disappointed the only mention of Shep's super gene was in Tower.
I have to keep reminding myself that Shep's ability to turn on Ancient doodads is in FF and is not canon, as such!
I'm hoping the explanation and further study of Shep's gene has been put aside for use in Season 3, one can only live in hope.
I also am disappointed not to have seen Shep face off with Kolya in season 2. I was disappointed that there was no showdown in Brotherhood, that was a missed oportunity for Shep to spar with his nemesis, but hoped season 2 would have some instead, but alas no! I hope that this will be remedied in season 3. A real battle between the two of them would not only be entertaining but could give us the single-minded, darker Sheppard I'd like to see again.

[Easter Lily]

Hi Guys...
I think we need to be careful about spoilers as firstly, many Aussies haven't seen anything of S2 yet... and other places haven't caught up to Canada just yet.

I loved 'Michael' myself...and i thought the person who looked the worse in the whole thing was Weir....Again as you mention John would have had a 'worse case scenario' mentality, as he's in the military and knows about these things. You don't bring a potential threat to your home base, cause 'worse case scenario' or even 'murphy's law' would tell you what could happen. And it bloody well did.

I think it was on LJ that Blue Banrigh made the comment that she understood why Weir and Beckett went in the direction that they did.

Spoiler:

It was likely that they thought it was more humane to go down the road that they did as some kind of viable option rather than to kill one them.

I suspect that people are only morally outraged because the storytelling is so good. The shift in the point of view compounds that outrage much more than if it is seen purely from the POV of the main characters. However, the only question mark I have over this is how is it that Michael would have gained such a high sense of morality if the Wraith are such blood-thirsty suckers. The implication then is that the Wraith are much more bestial than human in their present state and that the humanity that informs our sense of morality is largely absent. (Assuming that we humans have an inclination for good anyway) But then... does this episode call into question that desire to do right also? When we do good... what good are we referring? For whose good?

To me Weir has endangered the lives of thousands of people (we're talking the Atlantis crew, and the Athosians and other citizens on the main land)...and I would courtmarshal her. (She's lucky there's dissention within the hive groups!) I really wanted to like Weir, but after seeing this episode she really just jumped down in my estimation, which I thought couldn't be done.

Spoiler:

Leaders make all kinds of decisions that are morally dubious all the time not without reasons. But here we are made privvy to the goings-on behind closed doors. It could be that she believed that it was a better alternative to killing but perhaps now they all realise that the Wraith are "incurable".

Spoiler:

I understand Sheps side fully, I think he was forced into doing it because again who's his leader. He may be head of security but there is only one above him and that is Weir. He does what SHE says (most of the time, and after 'Hot Zone' he has to watch himself!). So this was Elizabeth's idea to follow through with one of the worst decisions Atlantis has ever seen. Then I would like to mention I feel he sort of pushed Teyla into going along.

I have no quarrel with Sheppard or anyone... They are in a war they know they cannot win by conventional means. This is the sort of situation which forces people to push the envelope. I'm not condoning what they did although I understand what the reasons for doing it are. It probably sounded like a good idea at the time. However, what we have here is a clever manipulation of POV as well and that can easily alter our perception.

[Easter Lily]

Oh..I also thought, per usual, they missed a great chance to have more done with Michael and Shep. Shep was the reverse of Michael. I wanted them to explore that more. Heck..Teyla gets Critical Mass and Michael ep for character developement. Shep gets....erm. Yeah..right. Nothing. ::sighs::

Now, that would have been interesting angle... The whole Gemini complex and the yin yang dynamic.
*Hmmm... smells a plot bunny...*

Well... I don't think he gets nothing... I just think he doesn't get much substance. I'm happy for JF to fill in the gaps and give us the layers with his subtle gestures but I this whole "babe magnet" nonsense that Skiffy is trying to push does a grave disservice to the character.

[Merlin7]

I must admit the exclusion of the importance of Sheppard's gene has been a missed oportunity in season 2, and a great disappointment to me. I was looking forward to seeing Sheppard interact more with Atlantis the city, and am very disappointed the only mention of Shep's super gene was in Tower.
I have to keep reminding myself that Shep's ability to turn on Ancient doodads is in FF and is not canon, as such!
I'm hoping the explanation and further study of Shep's gene has been put aside for use in Season 3, one can only live in hope.
I also am disappointed not to have seen Shep face off with Kolya in season 2. I was disappointed that there was no showdown in Brotherhood, that was a missed oportunity for Shep to spar with his nemesis, but hoped season 2 would have some instead, but alas no! I hope that this will be remedied in season 3. A real battle between the two of them would not only be entertaining but could give us the single-minded, darker Sheppard I'd like to see again.

The Kolya thing really bugged me till I read somewhere that they wanted to do something with Robert Davi this year, but he wasn't available. So...I'll hold off on being ticked about that until season 3. And I really want them to get into Shep and his gene and Atlantis.

[Merlin7]

Now, that would have been interesting angle... The whole Gemini complex and the yin yang dynamic.
*Hmmm... smells a plot bunny...*

Well... I don't think he gets nothing... I just think he doesn't get much substance. I'm happy for JF to fill in the gaps and give us the layers with his subtle gestures but I this whole "babe magnet" nonsense that Skiffy is trying to push does a grave disservice to the character.

I agree. A grave disservice to Shep and, really to JF. It's obvious he's beautiful, and that it's been used. But Shep and Joe are so much more than that.

There have been some great Shep moments. In half the eps there have been moments I loved. But just teasers of what there should be. Other characters get whole eps/scenes to explore them and Shep gets 30 seconds in comparison. Blink and it's gone. I don't mind Shep being a bit of a mystery. But telling/Showing us somtehing more won't take away from that.

And alot of Rodney fans have said as much, which just reinforces it. Shep needs more background and characterization and I really REALLY hope TPTB realize that and do something about it.

Meant to add. I hope you CATCH the BUNNY! ::Hint::

[vaberella]

But we don't get an ep like Michael for Shep. Hence my point. I know we get Shep on screen. Half the time it's nothing but to show the pretty. NOt that I mind that, but I want him to get something meaningful. Something that really shows/explores him. Point out ONE EP that does that and I'll go watch the ep I missed.

Sure there have been tidbits of Shep. But I want an ep, like ROdney got DUET/TRINITY and GRACE. All about Shep. Showing us Shep. LIke Michael got Micheal. There was more revealed about Teyla in Micheal and Critical, filler or not, than any ep for Shep. He never gets that kind of attention. Do I know he's gorgeous and attracts women and can shoot a gun and wise crack? Yes. I don't want/need ep after ep of that. I need/want more. Shep deserves it, I deserve it and so does Joe. LOL

See..it's not about QUANTITY Time, it's QUALITY time. I still know more about everyone, now Micheal in a way, than I do Shep. That's my gripe and until TPTB give me a real SHEP EP, I won't stop complaing about it. Rehashing the same moments/things I know about Shep, and having him stand around being his Beautiful self is something I'd give up for some real substance/meat. But...I'm just kidding myself. That will never happen cause Shep isn't Mckay. Heck..apparently we even get McKay's sister next year. But no stuff mentioned about Shep. ::Crawls into corner and cries:: And rightfully so. I had high hopes of good Shep stuff this season and got whacked upside the head with NOTHING!

So...I expect next year will suck worse.

Mind you. I adore every Shep moment. Thanks to Joe. He's a freaking fantastic actor. And I love it when he does his soldier thing. His awkwardness with women. Kissing. Facing bad guys. Snarking with McKay and rescuing people. But not one bit of it, other than the little moment in EPIPHANY when we learn he has abandoment issues. Nothing else was anything new from season one. :obs some more::

I concede and see your point more clearly now. Are you willing though to not see Shep in some episodes? And wait for quality time. I mean I understand the reason behind it, as the head of military in atlantis he has to pretty much be in every episode, and that causes problems though for the writers...especially to give him more of depth than the shallow representation we're pretty much getting.

I would appreciate though that the writer's get a bit more imaginative than having everyone on bloody Atlantis get inhabited by some transiet or bloody bug bite?!!?!?!? Come on now!! We are not in Star Trek 1967, you can do better!!!

And they got to work something out with the whole Ancient gene..that's getting old very fast for me...all I see is Sheppy lighting things up like a bulb. I'd love him in my house... Your right he does development...much of it....

[FoolishPleasure]

I loved 'Michael' myself...and i thought the person who looked the worse in the whole thing was Weir..... Keep in mind I'm not a fan of Ronon, he could have been a bit more subtle..but hey he's a not one for subtlety...so you take him as he is.

We are all well aware how much you hate these two characters, and have from day one. Your agenda is Shep/Teyla "ship". Ronon and Weir both get in the way of that dynamic.

To me Weir has endangered the lives of thousands of people (we're talking the Atlantis crew, and the Athosians and other citizens on the main land)...and I would courtmarshal her.

You didn't see "Letters From Pegasus" did you? When Teyla's insistence of having her own way almost compromised the entire mission? She insisted on "trying" to save a few people and in doing so, almost got Shep killed, and without their recon info, Atlantis, and the Athosians would have had no idea how many Wraith ships were headed their way, or what they would be facing. Teyla almost killed all her people and everyone on Atlantis for what? A "few" people she only knew as trading partners? She is lucky Weir let her stick around!

Again we need to look at Teyla as a leader and a warrior and a woman who has dealt with the Wraith one on one and in fear for herself and her people...there is no way in hell she would have agreed to this plan....unles she was convinced of its usefulness by John..and only John.

Where do you get this idea? Wasn't she the one who saw Ronon kill a man in cold blood. . .and agreed to keep his secret? Teyla isn't exactly a saint herself.

Teyla can question this because she is not technically under Weir, she' more of an Ambassador of sorts and/or Senator (as in Star Wars). She has questioned and can question decisions made.

At no time was anything ever said about Teyla being any sort of ambassador. She is part of John's team and chooses to live in Atlantis, like everyone else. She has said she wants to help defeat the Wraith and working with us helps her people. Yes, she falls under Weir's command.

[Luz]

I agree. A grave disservice to Shep and, really to JF. It's obvious he's beautiful, and that it's been used. But Shep and Joe are so much more than that.

There have been some great Shep moments. In half the eps there have been moments I loved. But just teasers of what there should be. Other characters get whole eps/scenes to explore them and Shep gets 30 seconds in comparison. Blink and it's gone. I don't mind Shep being a bit of a mystery. But telling/Showing us somtehing more won't take away from that.

And alot of Rodney fans have said as much, which just reinforces it. Shep needs more background and characterization and I really REALLY hope TPTB realize that and do something about it.

Meant to add. I hope you CATCH the BUNNY! ::Hint::

I think tptb might be bit confused, they need to know the difference between showing us teh pretty, and giving him really quality screen time.
mind you i haven't seen all of season 2. It hasn't even been transmited here, and i've gotten hold of an odd episode here and there from a... cousin :wink:.
I can't say he hasn't been there, because physicaly he has, he looks gorgeous, saves the day, flirts, looks all sweet and heroic, and all the things he's supposed to be as the male lead.
But when it comes to his character there hasn't been any attempt to dig inside, to show us that that hint of something dark lurking in those eyes is not just Joe trying to give depth to his character.
Those hints we got from season one haven't been explored, why the black mark?, what happened?, who died?, were they close?, why didn't he want to send a message to anyone?, does he have anyone to send as message to?.
Is he really that much of a loner?. Sometimes i wonder that loner image some attribute to him, is it based in canon?, 'cause we talk so much about him that sometimes i tend to confuse what's based on canon, and what's just our wild imaginations at work.

[Merlin7]

I concede and see your point more clearly now. Are you willing though to not see Shep in some episodes? And wait for quality time. I mean I understand the reason behind it, as the head of military in atlantis he has to pretty much be in every episode, and that causes problems though for the writers...especially to give him more of depth than the shallow representation we're pretty much getting.

I would appreciate though that the writer's get a bit more imaginative than having everyone on bloody Atlantis get inhabited by some transiet or bloody bug bite?!!?!?!? Come on now!! We are not in Star Trek 1967, you can do better!!!

And they got to work something out with the whole Ancient gene..that's getting old very fast for me...all I see is Sheppy lighting things up like a bulb. I'd love him in my house... Your right he does development...much of it....

Sure. I'll accept LESS SHEP as soon as I see ALOT LESS ROdney. And his not being in Michael much doesn't count. He was triple Rodney time in GRACE adn they cut out three main characters to do it. You've never seen that for Shep. the ::cough:: lead. So...when Rodney gets less time to make room for Teyla and such to get more time. Then I'll accept less Shep time for quality. Right now I have to take what quantity I can. I think, realistically, they need to cut down on McKay. He's, overall, onscreen more than Shep and even when Shep's on screen there are quite a few eps where he's background. Rodney and the others do most of the talking. Which, again, means nothing for Shep characterization wise.

I've, sadly, timed eps. Rodney gets more time overall. Alot more really. LOL

So...Rodney scaled back to give Tyela and others more screen time first. Then I'll be happy with scaling back Shep for more quantity time since there's little quality I'm stuck making do with the PRETTEH quantity time.

I do think Shep SHOULD be in each ep though. I'll be willing to change that tune when Rodney gets scaled back and we don't get four eps focused fully around him. DUET/TRINITY/GRACE and I'm gonna add CONDEMNED cause that was very much about Rodney. That's all everyone could talk about.

Meant to add. I think having shep in every ep, given his job, is easy. The writers don't write for him, basically, cause they aren't imaginative enough. I've read fanfic, Alternate takes on Eps that are fabulous adn could have easily been done, and probably cheaper, than the eps that we get. So...having Shep in each ep, having all the main cast should never be a problem. One thing they need to do is stop trying to do TWO/Equal Story lines per ep. The eps always suffer for it. Always.

Critical could have been so amazing, but fell flat for me. And so have several others.