STAKS: The Anti-Kirking Discussion Thread

[Willow'sCat]

They make the too-stereotyped Liz and Teyla seem more interesting in comparison (maybe that's the point?). If John's going to keep having these dalliances, for god's sake, at least inject some personality into these creatures he's paired with.

Haha, creatures is an interesting way of putting it.

Your right they are so one dimentional and I don't think it is impossable for a one off character to be well rounded. I get the impression it's all just a bit of fun for the writers; this shipping of Sheppard.

[Wildrat]

Lazy writing is what it is, just as Mitchelleb said...

[SGalisa]

not sure if I should post this here (since it fits), or on the pro-Kirk topic... anyway...

I thought about the following idea for a lot longer than before this topic ever existed...

Maybe what TPTB are really trying to express is different ways on how certain personas -specifically female- manipulate men and male egos. Except for the goa'uld's survival factor, not much manipulation seems to be done from the guy's POV - even Apophis respected his wife's decision to choose a host of her own liking.

re: the theory of *kirking*
So, is social manipulation of genders being used
as a sort of statement in SG? think about it...!!
The female keepers of the Wraith "Hive" social structure...
....how the wraith queens are able to "force a man to his knees"...umm, is someone making a joke there??

Manipulative females like
* SG-1's Laira (100 Days) and
* SGA's Mara of The Tower (seducing Shep for a stronger ancient gene baby)...
* SGA "Duet's" Lt. Laura Cadman {female} stuck in Rodney's body: indirectly but directly (her soul) breaking ground with Dr.Carson Beckett.
* Except for Teal'c, Hathor manipulated the entire male population of the SGC staff to do her bidding.

* Apart from the legend factor invigorating new hope to suicidal Shyla, Princess Shyla ("Need") used the Goa'uld sarcophagus to manipulate Daniel Jackson into staying with her, and kept his SGC team/friends in the dark while she plotted her selfish plan for Daniel.

However, I wouldn't consider Chaya Sar (Sanctuary) manipulative with Shep. Shep definitely had instant sparks with Chaya, and it wasn't flirting during those first glances... She admitted in the end that she was being selfish for his companionship.

I do think some of the SG storylines are hinting that manipulation of the sexes is partially more to the point than on the surface of doing the deed just for the sake of "Kirking" -which is what I think most of the comments within this topic are claiming. If my theory is sort on TPTB track, then I think there's a lot of POV speculation going on in these topics that might be huffing and puffing in the wrong direction. (no puns intended either, please!)

My other school of thought re: (more or less) romance in SG:
don't believe everything that's been "advertised" as literal *promises* from any source. I've learned to realize that the preview commercials are pure teasers. So, why announce a product as having less *romance*, when the next program shown on the same network seems to overwhelm that original idea? Times change, networks get antsy, and the end result is sometimes not what was originally planned or penned.

At the time SGA started, it wasn't in competition programming-wise with anything, including BSG. Once BSG appeared on the screens with its almost weekly flaunting of various couples, and had consistently higher media praises than SGA, just *maybe* some SG writers or PTB began re-evaluating their entire approaches (and beliefs) to whatever it was they were originally writing about and changed their direction.

or... every viewers' POV so far is all pure speculation; and we don't know the whole reasoning behind the storylines just yet. I think SGA is more focused on exploring the theory of evolution... and the possibilities thereof...

[Dani347]

I think I should start a new thread called "Shippers against priest syndrome".

"Priest syndrome" is something I just made up in which characters display so little interest in sex or having relationships that they might as well be priests. They may occasionally have a relationship, but it seems like once a decade. It's not normal.

Stargate is full of characters like this. It needs more characters who aren't.

But, I don't think they are like this. I just think it's unimportant to see this aspect of their lives. To me, showing it doesn't make me feel that they're well rounded (because they are without it) or that they're finally happy. It makes me feel that there's a sense of desperation about it.

But, I admit, I'm a PG, old fashioned kind of gal. You build a believable love between two people, and I'm okay with that. Just showing two people getting it on (and I include just kissing in this) for the sake of telling us that they do "get some" I can live without. If necessary, I can just assume they do without having to see it.

But, I don't want to see anything like that built between SG1. Beyond the scope of this, but I want to clarify.

[Tracy Jane]

I think I should start a new thread called "Shippers against priest syndrome".

"Priest syndrome" is something I just made up in which characters display so little interest in sex or having relationships that they might as well be priests. They may occasionally have a relationship, but it seems like once a decade. It's not normal.

Stargate is full of characters like this. It needs more characters who aren't.

Yeah, having little or no interest in sex may be abnormal, but these characters are not hormone ridden teenagers/students who want to get into bed with everything. They should by their age, have learnt that sex comes with consequences, and that relationships are more rewarding than continuous one night stands.

You also have to consider how these high ranking military officers jeopardise their missions by jumping into bed with totty of the week. That would not happen in real life. Yes, I know it is a fictional show, but if Jack and Sam couldn't get together because of Air Force regs....

....Anyone else get the feeling that their Air Force Advisor was kidnapped, bound with duct tape and bunged in the nearest closet this season?

[Easter Lily]

At the time SGA started, it wasn't in competition programming-wise with anything, including BSG. Once BSG appeared on the screens with its almost weekly flaunting of various couples, and had consistently higher media praises than SGA, just *maybe* some SG writers or PTB began re-evaluating their entire approaches (and beliefs) to whatever it was they were originally writing about and changed their direction.

Well... I don't pretend to know what the writers on Stargate are thinking... but there's a lot more to BSG than just people getting together. Yes, there are obvious couplings but it also has a very intriguing storyline, as well as stunning characterization and maybe... just maybe that it where all that praise is being directed at. If TPTB think that sex alone is the panacea to all its rating woes, well... they are more naive than I thought.

However, all the relationships in BSG serve a purpose and occur in the context of something. Sheppard's dalliances serve NO purpose in the story except that it diminishes the character in our eyes. They are just once off events that make no sense plotwise or characterwise. Epiphany, I can sort of understand but it was poorly executed.

I don't think any of us in this day and age are that naive... to believe that Sheppard being the hotblooded male that he is has taken a vow of celibacy. All we're asking is that TPTB make his relationships with females a lot more believable than the convenient sexual snack.

[Wildrat]

Just watched Collateral damage and I have to say IMO that was not kirking.

Spoiler:

This ep had more substans to it than the Tower and that made the kissing believable and a contribution.

And she had a better age...

[prion]

Well... I don't pretend to know what the writers on Stargate are thinking... but there's a lot more to BSG than just people getting together. Yes, there are obvious couplings but it also has a very intriguing storyline, as well as stunning characterization and maybe... just maybe that it where all that praise is being directed at. If TPTB think that sex alone is the panacea to all its rating woes, well... they are more naive than I thought.

However, all the relationships in BSG serve a purpose and occur in the context of something. Sheppard's dalliances serve NO purpose in the story except that it diminishes the character in our eyes. They are just once off events that make no sense plotwise or characterwise. Epiphany, I can sort of understand but it was poorly executed.

I don't think any of us in this day and age are that naive... to believe that Sheppard being the hotblooded male that he is has taken a vow of celibacy. All we're asking is that TPTB make his relationships with females a lot more believable than the convenient sexual snack.

Well, yes, it is hard to think wht the SG writers are thinking, or maybe we just don't want to because it's far too simplistic. Just sex for the sake of it or for humor.

Epiphany made sense. I'm not going to get into The Tower (aieeee). ANd no, I don't think anybody really expects ANY of the charactgers on SGA to be celibate; they just want meaningful relationships, not one night stands.

[Tracy Jane]

Anyone spotted the pro kirking thread that's suddenly appeared? Seems the latest trend is to find a popular thread and create a polar opposite. Guys.... I think we've finally made it!!

[AGateFan]

Anyone spotted the pro kirking thread that's suddenly appeared? Seems the latest trend is to find a popular thread and create a polar opposite. Guys.... I think we've finally made it!!

Congratulations?
But you wanted this to be general discussion right? So technically this is not an Anti thread as such. Is that correct? So all are welcome here?

Although, I personally am Anti, Very Anti-kirking.

[Tracy Jane]

Congratulations?
But you wanted this to be general discussion right? So technically this is not an Anti thread as such. Is that correct? So all are welcome here?

Although, I personally am Anti, Very Anti-kirking.

No, you're right. It is a general discussion thread. Although it is mainly people against Kirking, I've made it a personal goal to welcome people against Kirking to come and discuss the issue.

However, it seems a lot of "pro-Kirkers" feel out of place here and have made their own thread.

[gooner_diva]

Anyone spotted the pro kirking thread that's suddenly appeared? Seems the latest trend is to find a popular thread and create a polar opposite. Guys.... I think we've finally made it!!

The minute you get an anti thread you know you've become important. Now I only wish we could convince people we're not against hot women (and men) appearing on the show, only against them being shipped with the main cast. *sigh*

[Tracy Jane]

The minute you get an anti thread you know you've become important. Now I only wish we could convince people we're not against hot women (and men) appearing on the show, only against them being shipped with the main cast. *sigh*

I mean, I'm all in favour of hot men and women. Definitely the women. And there's nothing wrong with people having sexual instincts. It's how they act on these instincts and how it's portrayed that is the problem.

[Wildrat]

I mean, I'm all in favour of hot men and women. Definitely the women. And there's nothing wrong with people having sexual instincts. It's how they act on these instincts and how it's portrayed that is the problem.

I totally agree. I've seen all Stargate episodes and it's not until now (the Tower especially) that I've reacted. Something has changed and I don't know what, but I don't like it. Hot aliens, romancing and even snogging can be good but it's just been done wrong lately...

[xkawaiix]

I mean, I'm all in favour of hot men and women. Definitely the women. And there's nothing wrong with people having sexual instincts. It's how they act on these instincts and how it's portrayed that is the problem.

I actually don't mind them flirting a little bit once in a while. What I have a problem with is when it gets out of hand and, in Sheppard's case, happens 3 or 4 times in a season.