Deep Space 9 Superior

[Krisz]

LOL what a turnabout Krisz, you and I are the soap haters and it's the GUYS here who talk about soaps! I gave up soaps in my early 20's. There was too much else to do in life (had a family to take care of). I actually gave up most commercial tv about a decade later. I am very fussy about what I spend my time on. Trek, Stargate, and documentaries have made up the bulk of my tv veiwing in the past 10+ years. I recently have gotten into Foodtv and Do-it-yourself home improvement shows. but really that is usually only background noise when I cook or clean.
As for soaps -The over-the-top characters and stupid (I mean STUPID ) storylines turned me off. I also got uncomfortable with the explictness of sex in them. I know that isn't much compared to other countries, but it was too much for me. (Poor RDA never wore a shirt on General Hospital, even though he was supposed to be playing a doctor, all he did was "play doctor" )
I actually played a nurse in our high school's adaptation of MASH, and found the series to be different (and in some ways better , some worse) from the play.

Hmmm, they must all be in touch with their feminine sides!!! They're a bunch of soft hearted lovable guys! Awwwww!

You and I are so alike sometimes, it's scary Lady Rac! I too love a good documentary, historical and amazing feats of engineering especially. Sci Fi of course with movies thrown in too. I love those house makeover shows because I wish I could do those things! Our house in the UK always looked like the 'before', whatever we did to it!!! I was really glad to move into a well decorated and maintained house that we didn't have to do much to when we arrived in Vancouver.

[nx01a]

I'm shocked with the number of people who're obsessed with the Food Channel or its regional equivalent. Simple or not, is anyone actually gonna get up from infront the tv and make garithes yiouvetsi? Seriously. Nope. We're going to Red Lobster, let them do it. And these Cursing Chef shows... Oi.

I'm not a soap lover per se, but I can't escape them because the other females in the house love them and blast them loudly. Daily. Over the years, I've sadly come to know each and every character on Days, so I really can't hate on soaps. I'm intrigued by how they can extend a storyline for years at a time with daily installments, not to mention the 'pre-commercial stare-into-space'. Priceless!

[Starbase]

You and I are so alike sometimes, it's scary Lady Rac! I too love a good documentary, historical and amazing feats of engineering especially. Sci Fi of course with movies thrown in too. I love those house makeover shows because I wish I could do those things! Our house in the UK always looked like the 'before', whatever we did to it!!! I was really glad to move into a well decorated and maintained house that we didn't have to do much to when we arrived in Vancouver.

You know what I think it is -- It's a love of television combined with the very human trait of wanting to expand our minds and better ourselves. I have found quite a few like minded people right here on this thread that have this same love and passion for all kinds of various television programming and even a bigger passion for gaining knowledge. I think this is one of the reasons that we all like each other and we all seem to have alot of the same likes and dislikes. Ain't it kewl!.

I along with brother Fifth and USS Defiant all have a love of the Scifi Channel ... Animal Planet ... Discovery Channel ... BBC America ... The Biography Network ... The Learning Channel ... National Geographic Channel ... The Science Network ... The History Channel ... The Home & Garden Network ... The Food Network ... Bravo ... VH-1 ... Comedy Central ... A&E Network ... Travel Channel ... and a few others. I know this because we all have Hi-Def Tivo DVR units connected on a network so we can share each others programming that we record. Brother Fifth has his Tivo unit connected to 4 Gig Hard Drive that allows him up to 700 hours of Hi-Def recording space and 3,000 hours of regular digital cable recording space, he also has 4 tuners so he can record up to 4 different shows on 4 different channels all at the same-time, fricking show-off. And I would say that 75% of all the programming on all 3 of our Tivo's comes from the above mentioned Networks.

Hmmm, they must all be in touch with their feminine sides!!! They're a bunch of soft hearted lovable guys! Awwwww!

Aren't they special If this ain't the age that men should be in touch with there feminine side, there never will be. Metro-sexuals are every where, cue the Seinfeld line - "not that there is anything wrong with that". LOL Personally I have no problems with anyones sexual preference, to each there own, but I kind of have a problem with supposed straight guy "Metro's" dressing in pink's, muave's, baby blues and looking like they spend more time on there hair and more money on there wardrobe than a wife or girlfriend might, there all pansy's.

[USS Defiant]

DS9 Season III Episode Discussion
Episode #60 Destiny

It's a credit to the writers that despite the literally hundreds of stories on TNG, DS9 and VOY that they can still come up with compelling, original ideas. "Destiny" is such a story, with a very clever script and very interesting dialogue, exhibiting some effective philosophical content alongside the best of "In the Hands of the Prophets."

In the midst of the first joint Bajoran/Cardassian cooperative mission--the installation of a communications relay outside the wormhole--Bajoran Vedek Yarka visits the station to inform Sisko of an ancient prophecy about the Emissary that is a warning of impending disaster--directly linked to this mission. The prophecy is a convolution of metaphors, but these metaphors come together to provide a seemingly striking message involving a number of distinctive elements.

Paraphrasing the prophecy: Three vipers will return to their nest in the sky in an attempt to peer through the temple gates. A sword of stars will appear in the heavens, and as a result, the temple will burn and will never open or close again.

Yarka argues that the "vipers" are the Cardassian scientists who are heading up the project. The "nest in the sky" is, of course, the station and "peering through the temple gates" is the attempt to communicate through the wormhole with the transceiver relay. He doesn't offer an explanation for the "sword of stars" but predicts that the temple burning, never to open or close again, can only be the disastrous destruction and permanent collapse of the wormhole.

This gives Sisko some rather weighty decisions to make. There is no foreseeable reason why this experiment should cause any sort of problem, let alone something as disastrous as Yarka claims. Should Sisko continue procedures as if he never heard the prophecy text or should he take it into consideration?

The episode's story structure is quite effective. As the narrative unfolds, every act culminates with some sort of unexpected surprise that makes the prophecy seem that much closer to coming true. Just when it appears Sisko is clear from any more problems another interesting twist pops up. For example, initially, there are only two Cardassians heading up the project, not three. Then there's the announcement that a third Cardassian will be joining the project. Kira's apprehension starts up, but neither she nor Sisko can see what could possibly go wrong because of this coincidence.

Then there's the appearance of a comet which has a course that puts it near the wormhole entrance, but not close enough to interfere with the project, let alone cause any disaster. Kira makes a passing remark about the prophecy within earshot of the Cardassians, prompting Sisko to request a private discussion with his first officer. The comment has no place on the bridge of the Defiant, he tells her. She agrees, but she also believes the prophecy is coming true based on the number of "coincidences."

This is the heart of "Destiny." It's a crossing of Kira's faith and her duty. How can she just ignore something she has believed her entire life? Kira reveals to Sisko her ongoing difficulty to see him as simply her commanding officer and not the religious icon he has become in Bajoran lore. At the same time, Sisko is put in the difficult position of being part of the prophecy. He's never been comfortable with the label of Emissary, and this episode is really the first to deeply look at how Sisko feels about it. However, Sisko realizes he can't call the project off based on a retranslated prophecy that could be interpreted to mean any number of things.

But imagine everyone's surprise when a random variable in the communication test sequence causes the comet's course to be altered such that it heads straight for the wormhole. By this time, I'm thinking Kira's "concrete" justification for calling off the project makes a lot of sense. Sisko sits down and thinks the situation through very carefully. Dax asks him what he would do if he never heard of the prophecy. Continue with the project, he says. There's no reason at all why O'Brien's plan to destroy the comet with modified phasers should fail. But then it does fail. The Defiant's phasers overload and fail to destroy the comet. With the comet headed directly for the mouth of the wormhole and the crew without phasers to destroy it, a disaster seems imminent. Maybe Yarka was right.

But the effectiveness of "Destiny" practically rides on whether the conclusion can live up to the rest of it. A contrived, last-minute solution to completely disprove the prophecy could have seriously sabotaged this show. Fortunately, the writers know how to finish a good story with a good ending, and they offer a satisfying conclusion that doesn't sell the episode short in any way.

Sisko and Kira manage to pilot the comet through the wormhole with a subspace field around it to prevent it from igniting the wormhole. They are almost successful. The wormhole does end up ignited by small amounts of comet fragments--just enough so the prophecy comes true. But the damage is only minor, and the wormhole doesn't collapse. It simply remains "cracked" open just enough to allow the communication transmission through, never to completely close again.

It's a very clever ending, as Yarka's misinterpretation of the prophecy proves ironic. At the same time, by having the prophecy still actually come true, the writers affirm that religion and Bajoran beliefs still remain characteristic of the series. They also prove that it's quite possible to do a story that isn't derivative. Kudos to this rather cerebral outing.

I give Destiny a 8.4 rating

[Rac80]

Hmmm, they must all be in touch with their feminine sides!!! They're a bunch of soft hearted lovable guys! Awwwww!

You and I are so alike sometimes, it's scary Lady Rac! I too love a good documentary, historical and amazing feats of engineering especially. Sci Fi of course with movies thrown in too. I love those house makeover shows because I wish I could do those things! Our house in the UK always looked like the 'before', whatever we did to it!!! I was really glad to move into a well decorated and maintained house that we didn't have to do much to when we arrived in Vancouver.

separated at birth!
LOL that was why we built a home, I didn't want to have to do basic improvements. Right now I can focus on painting the various rooms each summer. (only have 3 done thus far) eventually I will have it all decorated.

I'm shocked with the number of people who're obsessed with the Food Channel or its regional equivalent. Simple or not, is anyone actually gonna get up from infront the tv and make garithes yiouvetsi? Seriously. Nope. We're going to Red Lobster, let them do it. And these Cursing Chef shows... Oi.

I'm not a soap lover per se, but I can't escape them because the other females in the house love them and blast them loudly. Daily. Over the years, I've sadly come to know each and every character on Days, so I really can't hate on soaps. I'm intrigued by how they can extend a storyline for years at a time with daily installments, not to mention the 'pre-commercial stare-into-space'. Priceless!

lol where do you think I learned all my "exotic cooking"? I watch the cooking shows and USE the recipes & techniques. I learned how to make fresh pasta from tv, it was easier to see someone do it than try to follow written instructions. Once I saw it done the instructions made sense.

Aren't they special If this ain't the age that men should be in touch with there feminine side, there never will be. Metro-sexuals are every where, cue the Seinfeld line - "not that there is anything wrong with that". LOL Personally I have no problems with anyones sexual preference, to each there own, but I kind of have a problem with supposed straight guy "Metro's" dressing in pink's, muave's, baby blues and looking like they spend more time on there hair and more money on there wardrobe than a wife or girlfriend might, there all pansy's.

ROTFLOL! I have a wonderful "manly" hubby who is definitely not a metrosexual, and who will NOT wear pink or lavendar now matter what I say -(he has the same coloring as our daughter and those colors look fabulous on her ) he gets so "tough" (for a nerd) at times it cracks me up! personally I think the whole lot of you guys are a bunch of softies!

[Starbase]

DS9 Season III Episode Discussion
Episode #60 Destiny

First of all, what a great review brother USS Defiant!. Man you really put your heart into it, no wonder you kick butt in the Trek Quizzes.

I also really enjoy the episode Destiny. - Ever since the pilot episode we have been told that Commander Benjamin Sisko is no ordinary Starfleet officer, that he is the Bajorans Emissary of the Prophets, which they did a pretty good job of exploring in this episode. It took 2 1/2 seasons, but they did in a way that was unique and original, especially for Star Trek. The real treat of the episode is the outstanding character development of Sisko. He doesn't believe he's the Emissary and he doesn't believe in the prophecy, but it is this event that makes him think its possible. From this episode onwards the Emissary arc would become one of the most interesting parts of the show. O'Brien's B-Story with the admiring Cardassian female scientist was wonderfully hilarious while showing a side to both O'Brien and the Cardassians we never saw before. I give Destiny 8.1 stars.

[jelgate]

You know I am shocked on how often I disagree with the founding members (Starbase, Fifth Race, USS Defiant) about episodes. I find this to be one of the weaker episodes of S3. It was a good which says a lot about S3 but their are so many IMO that are better. I see it as more of filler than an arc.

I'll see you guys in two weeks as vacations starts tomorrow. (\I might be around in the morning. No taking over the world with out me

[Krisz]

I will join Starbase in saying what a great review you've given us for 'Destiny' USS Defiant. I love prophecy fulfillment stories, I like the way they are open to interpretation. This is why I love reading the interpretations of Nostradamus' prophecies in light of historical events. They are so cleverly crafted they can be interpretated as subsequent historical events dictate! Horoscope writers use the same techniques but they don't have to shroud them in ambiguous terms as they wouldn't be prosecuted as 'witches' these days for such 'heresies'!

Destiny is one of the good examples of such prophecy stories. One event, not of any great significance at first escalates with a series of flukes to create the prophesied event. I wonder if the efforts made to avoid the event, whether consciously or subconsciously causes it to happen. There is no getting away from it, it was fortold!!

Here though, this event is really about starting Sisko thinking about what is really going on with the 'Emissary' status he had bestowed on him by the Bajorans. Again, is it the 'present' interpretation here or truly a fortold act involving the 'Emissary' of the Prophets? I like the way it left us thinking like Sisko did, that there is definitly something more going on than he first believed and it can no longer be dismissed.

[the Fifth Race]

You know what I think it is -- It's a love of television combined with the very human trait of wanting to expand our minds and better ourselves. I have found quite a few like minded people right here on this thread that have this same love and passion for all kinds of various television programming and even a bigger passion for gaining knowledge. I think this is one of the reasons that we all like each other and we all seem to have alot of the same likes and dislikes. Ain't it kewl!.

I couldn't agree more brother Base!. With the television programming available today, one can expand there depth of knowledge 100 fold in no time.

I along with brother Fifth and USS Defiant all have a love of the Scifi Channel ... Animal Planet ... Discovery Channel ... BBC America ... The Biography Network ... The Learning Channel ... National Geographic Channel ... The Science Network ... The History Channel ... The Home & Garden Network ... The Food Network ... Bravo ... VH-1 ... Comedy Central ... A&E Network ... Travel Channel ... and a few others. I know this because we all have Hi-Def Tivo DVR units connected on a network so we can share each others programming that we record. Brother Fifth has his Tivo unit connected to 4 Gig Hard Drive that allows him up to 700 hours of Hi-Def recording space and 3,000 hours of regular digital cable recording space, he also has 4 tuners so he can record up to 4 different shows on 4 different channels all at the same-time, fricking show-off. And I would say that 75% of all the programming on all 3 of our Tivo's comes from the above mentioned Networks.

How cool is that network I set up between out 3 Tivo's. And thanx for letting the cat out of the bag at what a electronic/television junkie I am. And by the way, I have 6 tuner capability and 6 gig's of RAM now.

You have probably heard me say it more than a few times over the years. Tivo is quite simply the greatest electronic invention since the television hand down!. When you introduce Tivo into your life it doesn't just change the way you view and look at television, it changes your entire life!. There is no better investment if you love television, especially commercial free television.

Aren't they special If this ain't the age that men should be in touch with there feminine side, there never will be. Metro-sexuals are every where, cue the Seinfeld line - "not that there is anything wrong with that". LOL Personally I have no problems with anyones sexual preference, to each there own, but I kind of have a problem with supposed straight guy "Metro's" dressing in pink's, muave's, baby blues and looking like they spend more time on there hair and more money on there wardrobe than a wife or girlfriend might, there all pansy's.

ROTFLOL! I have a wonderful "manly" hubby who is definitely not a metrosexual, and who will NOT wear pink or lavendar now matter what I say -(he has the same coloring as our daughter and those colors look fabulous on her ) he gets so "tough" (for a nerd) at times it cracks me up! personally I think the whole lot of you guys are a bunch of softies!

LOL, your hubby is my kind of guy Lady Rac. I can't say I have any Pink's, Muave's, or Baby Blues in my wardrobe. My girlfriend like's manly men, she won't have any of that Metro-sexual stuff going on with me, thank God.

[nx01a]

I'm glad that people actually make those exotic dishes. No one I know actually does. Well, if they have tried, they've failed and let no one know.

I'm definitely not metro, no pinks, and it's never, "I'm thinking... pastels." Black, blue, white, brown. What other colours are there?

I greatly enjoyed Destiny. Kira and Sisko coming to terms with him being the Emissary, the sci-fi plot with the 3 asteroid fragments capable of destroying the wormhole / the prophetic plot with the 3 serpents out to destroy the celestial temple, the B story with the Cardassian scientists and the infiltrator, AND the C story: "I assume you are quite fertile." Come on! Tracy Scoggins as a Cardassian! It was refreshing to see more sides of Cardassian society, especially scientists who have no problem with interspecies fun.

And that cute lil shuttlepod!

I give it a solid 8.

I'm fighting to keep this episode alive over on the DS9 Season 3 Tournament thread! HELP!!!!

[the Fifth Race]

I will join Starbase in saying what a great review you've given us for 'Destiny' USS Defiant. I love prophecy fulfillment stories, I like the way they are open to interpretation. This is why I love reading the interpretations of Nostradamus' prophecies in light of historical events. They are so cleverly crafted they can be interpreted as subsequent historical events dictate! Horoscope writers use the same techniques but they don't have to shroud them in ambiguous terms as they wouldn't be prosecuted as 'witches' these days for such 'heresies'!

Very well said Kris!. I have also found it quite amazing that someone/anyone could fall for "Horoscope Prophecies" (I guess people just need something or anything to believe in some times). I learned from a very young age (logic tends to start kicking in for us in our teenage years), that the prophecies that "Horoscope writers" or "Seer's" give, like Nostradamus was, are these broken pieces of advice, predictions and hearsay that can be construed and twisted into any number of different meanings or "interpretations". It's amazing what a perception or even an illusion you can create by using a little bit of logic.

Brother USS Defiant's reviews are fantastic and wonderfully detailed (some times a little to much for my taste), I love how he gives a brief synopsis of the episode before the review. Those types of reviews are wonderful for people that haven't watched DS9 in along time and need a detailed synopsis and review to help bring back there memories of said episode. I hope he doesn't change a thing.

Destiny is one of the good examples of such prophecy stories. One event, not of any great significance at first escalates with a series of flukes to create the prophesied event. I wonder if the efforts made to avoid the event, whether consciously or subconsciously causes it to happen. There is no getting away from it, it was fortold!!

Here though, this event is really about starting Sisko thinking about what is really going on with the 'Emissary' status he had bestowed on him by the Bajorans. Again, is it the 'present' interpretation here or truly a fortold act involving the 'Emissary' of the Prophets? I like the way it left us thinking like Sisko did, that there is definitly something more going on than he first believed and it can no longer be dismissed.

I remember this episode quite well except for I am little fuzzy on all the details. So I am going to re-watch it this morning before giving my review (it's so nice being off from work on a Friday) .

[Starbase]

I'm glad that people actually make those exotic dishes. No one I know actually does. Well, if they have tried, they've failed and let no one know.

LOL. I consider myself a very good cook (especially seafood). - I have tried to make few "exotic gourmet dishes" myself brother nx, and they either come out half-azz or something is missing. The minute you try to cook gourmet, is the minute you gain an extra appreciation for a good chef. They are worth there weight in Gold!.

[nx01a]

Or californium.

[the Fifth Race]

Or californium.

LOL, don't ya mean Cf: atomic number 98. As long as they put any in my food.

Ok, so I finished re-watching Destiny earlier today for the first time in awhile, and I must say it was better than I remembered. Despite some annoying timidity from Kira based on spiritual convictions, her religious background has always been portrayed as rather unorthodox, though it's clear she believes the wormhole aliens are her people's Prophets. Destiny is an engrossing episode, and one of the few cases where Star Trek attempts to take seriously the scientific validity of religion even as it debunks fundamentalist interpretation of sacred texts.
Sisko was great as the Emissary, balancing his dual role between Starfleet and Bajor as well he can ... "Where you see a sword of stars, I see a comet; where you see vipers, I see three scientists; and where you see the Emissary, I see a Starfleet officer," ... he complains to Kira, after telling her to keep her religion off the bridge of the Defiant. Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with him. But the wormhole aliens have involved themselves in the history of Bajor in a concrete way - prophets who have had contact with them before have come away with accurate information about the future, including Sisko himself. His dismissal of Kira seems uncharacteristically harsh, just as her fears seem uncharacteristically exaggerated. A very solid storyline!

O'Brien's B-Story was great, the dead-panned look he gave when he realized the Cardassian female was coming on to him was priceless and hilarious. These witty points of confusion enrich the whole plot, and make yet another case for tolerance and understanding among people sharing different belief systems. Great episode!, it gets 8.0 in my book.

[nx01a]

LOL, don't ya mean Cf: atomic number 98. As long as they put any in my food.

As opposed to Californication, either the RHCP song or the Mulder TV show, both of which are superb and would go well with an 'exotic' dish, like caribbean polenta with steamed flying fish. Mmm. I'm having some for dinner later, but it's not exotic for me.