Deep Space 9 Superior

[Lieutenant Colonel Davis]

I thought you ment the cure from nowhere.

[Starbase]

You mean.....why didn't they beam a time-delayed bomb onto the array, and set it to go off after it sent them home.....

Exactly!, thank you for mentioning that Trek_Girl. Everytime I watch The Caretaker I think the samething. There were a few options that Janeway could have done to save the array long enough to escape and save the Ocampan's, they definetly could have thought that one out better.

The one I noticed was rather obscure and unless you had seen the entire series before watching Caretaker you wouldn't have caught it..... Near the beginning of the episode they show Janeway meeting Tom Paris at some Federation penal colony in New Zealand. Right before the camera pans towards Paris working on some kind of machine they show an alien carrying equipment in the background of the same scene. The alien they show is a Nygean, which are a Gamma Quadrant race that have never been to the Alpha Quadrant. We later see the Nygean in the season 7 episode Repentance which is a rather good VOY episode. Again, it is rather obscure considering the many other tech plot holes that exist on VOY. But having seen all these episodes many times it was obvious to me.

Good eye brother Fifth, I went back and froze that exact scene you mentioned from The Caretaker and lined it up with scenes from the episode Repentance and that was a Nygean at the Federation penal colony. Big plot hole!, that only a Trek freak like yourself would spot.

[kmiller1610]

There were a few options that Janeway could have done to save the array long enough to escape and save the Ocampan's, they definetly could have thought that one out better.

Uh maybe Janeway is a flawed human? I admit that after the nearly perfect Picard, we expect a lot from our Captains, but isn't Janeway written as flawed, impulsive and willful (also very brave, intuitive and loyal?) ? She needs Tuvok like Kirk needed Spock to make logical choices, but she doesn't always listen

[mikepbr549]

And that's a bad thing, why????

Agreed.

DS9 is getting old on Spike.

IMO, Voyager is quite a refreshing change. It also feels more like TNG and TOS.

The space station concept never could compete with a Starship. There is also much more of a distinction between the good guys and bad guys (with a few surprises from time to time).

DS9 was lame by comparison.

[Starbase]

Uh maybe Janeway is a flawed human? I admit that after the nearly perfect Picard, we expect a lot from our Captains, but isn't Janeway written as flawed, impulsive and willful (also very brave, intuitive and loyal?) ? She needs Tuvok like Kirk needed Spock to make logical choices, but she doesn't always listen

I was in no means comparing the almighty Picard and his higher than thou standards to Janeway. I actually like the Janeway character, she comes across as am all around smart person that has her flaws and imperfections like us all. I guess I should have worded it better by saying the Janeway character is written quite badly through most (not all) of the series, especially in the premiere episode The Caretaker.

She admits early on that she missed and is now very happy to have Tuvok's counsel once again, "You keep me grounded Mr. Tuvok, I have missed that" was the exact quote. I guess the writers were going for that familiar Kirk/Spock - Human/Vulcan dynamic that was so hugely popular on TOS. Sadly it doesn't work for me, I find Tuvok one of the most forgettable and boring characters from any Star Trek series.

You also point out that Janeway doesn't always listen to her counsel from Tuvok or Chakotay which I appreciate and like about Janeway. She comes across as the smartest person on Voyager, she has technical skills, engineering skills, tactical skills ..etc.. above and beyond most everyone else including other Starfleet Captains.

[Trek_Girl42]

I guess I should have worded it better by saying the Janeway character is written quite badly through most (not all) of the series, especially in the premiere episode The Caretaker.

I absolutly agree- I didn't feel like there was any sort of consistancy with her character, she didn't seem very real at all. One week she'd go about things one way, and the next it would be opposite- all to serve the stories which were never as strong as those on other Trek series.

[the Fifth Race]

Janeway comes across as an all around smart person that has her flaws and imperfections like us all. I guess I should have worded it better by saying the Janeway character is written quite badly through most (not all) of the series, especially in the premiere episode The Caretaker.

I absolutly agree- I didn't feel like there was any sort of consistancy with her character, she didn't seem very real at all. One week she'd go about things one way, and the next it would be opposite- all to serve the stories which were never as strong as those on other Trek series.

IMHO Janeway comes across as to smart, she knows more about everything than everyone else and yet she asks for advice and usually ignores it, unless of course Chakotay yells, cries or begs.

I agree LadyTrek, Janeway would completely change from one episode to the next. Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe the writers wanted to make her seem that way, because she is female, and females tend to be ruled by there monthly hormones?. Otherwise I find it hard to believe that she just acted quirky and flaky on purpose?.

I just watched the season II episode Death Wish where they free an imprisoned Q which brings Q to Voyager for the first time. Janeway was brilliant with Q, great chemistry, funny and just a blast to watch. IMHO that is a prime example of Janeway being very good.

[bcfc]

Just got my Deep Space Nine 1-7 this afternoon after waiting 15 days for it to be shipped.

Already watched the first 2 discs, of season 1 only stopped to watch the gates.

[kmiller1610]

Already watched the first 2 discs, of season 1 only stopped to watch the gates.

I really love having seasons of anything I like on DVD. You can really immerse yourself in the shows and notice all kinds of things you may never have noticed before. And at least for me, my appreciation for the good shows grows with repeat viewings.

I started my DS-9 collection with seasons 6-7. Apart from season 5 (which I have seen thanks to Brother 5th), what do the faithful feel are other single seasons that rank high?

[Lieutenant Colonel Davis]

Agreed.

DS9 is getting old on Spike.

IMO, Voyager is quite a refreshing change. It also feels more like TNG and TOS.

The space station concept never could compete with a Starship. There is also much more of a distinction between the good guys and bad guys (with a few surprises from time to time).

DS9 was lame by comparison.

A new friend.

[the Fifth Race]

Just got my Deep Space Nine 1-7 this afternoon after waiting 15 days for it to be shipped.

Already watched the first 2 discs, of season 1 only stopped to watch the gates.

That's awesome bcfc, as I have said before there is nothing better than watching a great series from beginning to end, especially when you have it on DVD. You can watch it at your convienence, you can watch as much or as little as you want, among many other advantages.

How much, if any have you seen of the whole series before you started with the DVD's my friend?.

Feel free and please talk about any of the episodes you watch, I love talking about them with people that are fellow fans to get new and different points of views. Plus there is a wealth of DS9/Trek knowledge on this thread if you have any questions.

[Starbase]

Just got my Deep Space Nine 1-7 this afternoon after waiting 15 days for it to be shipped.
Already watched the first 2 discs, of season 1 only stopped to watch the gates.

Congrats bcfc, I have all the seasons of all the Trek series on DVD and I watch them all regulary, especially my DS9 box sets.

I really love having seasons of anything I like on DVD. You can really immerse yourself in the shows and notice all kinds of things you may never have noticed before. And at least for me, my appreciation for the good shows grows with repeat viewings.

I whole-heartdedly agree, watching a series you like on DVD has many advantages, from a convinence stand point to being able to watch as much or as little as you want in one sitting--like brother Fifth suggested--much better DVD picture quality, and the very cool "special features" that most all DVD box sets have.

I also agree with you brother kmiller, my appreciation for shows I like, especially DS9, grows everytime I re-watch it. You pick up things you didn't get the first time around, or even the second time around, plus it's like visiting an old friend. I definetly have gotten my money's worth.

I started my DS-9 collection with seasons 6-7. Apart from season 5 (which I have seen thanks to Brother 5th), what do the faithful feel are other single seasons that rank high?

As far as DS9 goes I would say all the seasons are worth collecting. Sure seasons 4, 5, 6 & 7 have the Dominion War and some of the very best scifi episodes ever, but the early seasons (1, 2 & 3) have a lot to offer as well. The more I re-watch the early seasons the more I have learned to appreciate them. There were a lot of great stand alone episodes early on, and it's also very interesting watching the characters and there relationships develop. In DS9's case, watching the Garak/Bashir, Quark/Odo, Bashir/O'Brien, Sisko/Kira, Dax/Quark, Jake/Nog, Kira/Dax, Dax/Sisko, Kira/Odo develop early on sets up the rest of the series in a way that you might not understand if you never have seen the beginning and early seasons.

[bcfc]

That's awesome bcfc, as I have said before there is nothing better than watching a great series from beginning to end, especially when you have it on DVD. You can watch it at your convienence, you can watch as much or as little as you want, among many other advantages.

How much, if any have you seen of the whole series before you started with the DVD's my friend?.

Feel free and please talk about any of the episodes you watch, I love talking about them with people that are fellow fans to get new and different points of views. Plus there is a wealth of DS9/Trek knowledge on this thread if you have any questions.

Thanks for the welcome guys,


I have seen the entire DS9 saga before but I was only young when it first came out,so I had to watch the repeats on Cable. Thats why I bought the collection, on British tv they dont show DS9 as much as Voyager,TNG and Enterprise,to be honest it hast been on in over a year.

I never really got into the rest, except DS9 so it felt like a wise investment. I suppose i liked it because of the setting and it got away with from the boring exploration from the comfy ships. And it gave a good political view on the different races.

[Pitry]

Oy! belated congrats for hitting 2000, Fifth

Jadziah! Hoora, finally an episode about her with her! Playing God, that is.

[the Fifth Race]

Oy! belated congrats for hitting 2000, Fifth

Why thank you Pitry. Here's to the next 2,000 posts on the superior thread.

Jadziah! Hoora, finally an episode about her with her! Playing God, that is.

Wow I haven't re-watched or thought about this episode in awhile. It has some interesting stuff. In an episode with a split personality, Dax is assigned a Trill "initiate," Arjin (Geoffrey Blake), who she must help guide to the next step in the Trill symbiont-joining candidacy by offering her experience as a joined Trill. In the confines of this same character-oriented episode is a completely inappropriate plot centering around a "proto-universe," which Arjin and Dax inadvertently bring back from the Gamma Quadrant. The proto-universe begins expanding, putting DS9 and (presumably) the entire Alpha Quadrant in danger of being destroyed, an overly large story idea that ends up making relatively little sense.

Sisko decides he can't justify destroying a universe to save his own, so an alternate plan (putting Arjin's flight skills to use) is concocted. The idea of an entire miniature universe with its own civilizations isn't bad in and by itself, and it even brings up some effectively interesting moments to ponder (Sisko's log about the Borg, first and foremost). But some non-addressed questions arise, like, for starters, how returning the proto-universe to "where it belongs" will keep it from expanding and wiping out the Gamma Quadrant (and beyond), and just how Sisko can have the arrogance to make a decision about the "universe" in a mere hour. In any case, the whole premise of pondering the nature of universes doesn't at all belong in this small episode of character interaction, which, in a vacuum, is a good one. The writers supply Dax with some reasonable backstory, with the humorous notion that Curzon Dax was notorious for washing initiates, including Jadzia herself, out of the joining program. ("I'm not Curzon," Jadzia constantly reminds Arjin). The Sisko/Dax relationship is put to good use again with a believable dialog scene. Arjin turns out to be a fairly interesting character, and the dialog between him and Dax is nicely written.

At the very least Playing God was entertaining and made you think, it is one of those overly technobabble episodes that has some light-jearted and funny moments, as do most Jadzia/Sisko episodes.